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Hi all,

I’m a complete newbie to audio and I’m building the Utility Player from TR’s back to school guide posted last month. I’d like to upgrade the audio and with the research that I have done I was thinking of getting the Audioengine 2 speakers and an Asus Xonar Essence STX. This is my first substantial purchase on audio equipment and I would really like to hear your thoughts on this or what might be the best music setup for $400 or if I should go with digital audio or anything else I should take into consideration. Thanks

Additional info:

Looking for music quality (clarity of vocals, range of music), not gaming audio.
The room is a home office, about 10ft by 15ft, listening to music on my telework days. The office is a little awkward to set up with 5.1, so I am looking for a 2.1 or 2 shelf speaker system, but if you think 5.1 would make a huge difference, let me know.
I listen to Pandora and mp3s.
I know nothing about home audio or how room setup affects music quality.

Thanks for your input.

Personally I'd say screw the sound card and get the A5s instead.

For the money, you can get more frequency range at a lower price by picking up the Klipsche ProMedia 2.1s from Best Buy. You can order them from the BB website, or they're usually stocked in the B&M shop near the other computer speaker systems. The current version of the product has a slightly lower build quality than the classic version from 10+ years ago but the audio performance remains excellent.

The set you are looking at lists a 65Hz bottom end, which will be pretty weak without a subwoofer. That's more a function of the limitations inherent in small bookshelf speakers than any underlying design problem, so a 2.1 system would be a better purchase for the setup you describe.

Thanks for the replies,

Neither of you put emphasis on the sound card, is it that much less of an important aspect?

Ludi - With the promedia and the mini stereo jack, do you think I would notice a difference in quality between Xonar Essence STX and the Xonar DG?

Thanks

If you can deal with the size, the Pioneer SP-BS41-LR sounds fantastic, at least in the far field. I'm not sure how they will sound from 30 inches away, but for $149 I'd be willing to risk it. I listened to these at a friend's house recently and was very impressed. Connect any reasonable receiver and away you go. Linky

ludi wrote:

For the money, you can get more frequency range at a lower price by picking up the Klipsche ProMedia 2.1s from Best Buy. You can order them from the BB website, or they're usually stocked in the B&M shop near the other computer speaker systems. The current version of the product has a slightly lower build quality than the classic version from 10+ years ago but the audio performance remains excellent.

The set you are looking at lists a 65Hz bottom end, which will be pretty weak without a subwoofer. That's more a function of the limitations inherent in small bookshelf speakers than any underlying design problem, so a 2.1 system would be a better purchase for the setup you describe.

He's looking at what are essentially studio monitors and you suggest a Klipsche 2.1 setup? I'm slightly confused by this recommendation...

I've never heard them, but I am skeptical of the Audioengine 2's. I think you'd get alot more mileage out of a pair of Rockit 5s or M-Audio BX5a. I have the latter plugged into my Mbox and ZOMG are they nice. You'll need something to get the audio to them, since they only do dual TRS 1/4" or XLR, though...but for $200 you can get your hands on an Avid Mbox Mini (3rd generation) and have some of the best line outs available.

TheWacoKid wrote:

ludi wrote:

For the money, you can get more frequency range at a lower price by picking up the Klipsche ProMedia 2.1s from Best Buy. You can order them from the BB website, or they're usually stocked in the B&M shop near the other computer speaker systems. The current version of the product has a slightly lower build quality than the classic version from 10+ years ago but the audio performance remains excellent.

The set you are looking at lists a 65Hz bottom end, which will be pretty weak without a subwoofer. That's more a function of the limitations inherent in small bookshelf speakers than any underlying design problem, so a 2.1 system would be a better purchase for the setup you describe.

He's looking at what are essentially studio monitors and you suggest a Klipsche 2.1 setup? I'm slightly confused by this recommendation...

The OP seems like he's after sound quality in general more than a specific kind of sound quality. That being the case it's easier to recommend the ProMedias, as they are all around winners in many respects. If he had something specific in mind, another set of speakers might be more appropriate. Anything decent is okay (and audio is subjective, anyway) but I'm a fan of the ProMedias as I've had 'em since they came out.

To the OP: The difference between those sound cards might be significant in a perfect world, but in order for you to really tell the difference you'd need to listen in perfect conditions. This includes proper placement in the room, proper placement relative to your head, and accounting for things such as ambient noise, the acoustic qualities of the room and its contents, etc. Without going to great pains to work out at least a few of those the differences between the two sound cards will get eaten up in the mix. I'd go for the DG.

I use A2's as my computer speaker setup and they are pretty good and very compact - I was surprised at the size even after reading the dimensions, it just didn't give me the real sense of size until I pulled them out of the box. Make yourself a mockup out of cardboard or w/e to see. I consider myself an 'audiophile' but with sanity and logic, not one of those crazies who buys snakeoil cables and stuff, and imo the A2's produce quite pleasing 'musical and fun' sound, just naturally without any truly palpable low bass...although they can get very loud and make my desk vibrate a bit.

I find that far too many moderate price powered subs have a boomy, one-note sound that is better for movies and games than music, especially background music. For true near-field at-desk listening the A2s are very good and I don't feel like I am missing much. At loud volumes and with extremely bassy music the natural shortcomings of a 3" woofer start to show up, you can tell they start to struggle to produce both midrage and bass with the clarity of lower volumes. (Not to say that they break up or sound horrible or anything, the midrange just starts to get muddied up by the bass...but again this is at pretty loud volumes.) The only thing I'd change about them is the rear-mounted volume control, but obviously you can use software volume controls (I don't like to because of the audiophile thing ). I can wholeheartedly recommend the A2s especially if you want something very compact with good sound.

The Xonar STX seems overkill for you though. First of all, it's got a lot of extra stuff for headphones that you won't even be using (?), second, that's a lot for a soundcard when all you're really after is straight up 2.0 or 2.1 analog output. You could save yourself quite a bit of money and get a Xonar DG if you really want a soundcard and if you're willing to live with an on the way out PCI interface. (ATX mobos might have PCI for a while just to fill up the 7 expansion slots, the same can't be said for mATX or obviously mITX.) This could either save you a lot of money or allow you to get the A5s or some other, larger speaker that may give cleaner loud playback. The other option in the 'soundcard' area is an external DAC, either a smallish not too expensive USB and/or SPDIF input DAC that is USB or power brick powered (there are a ton of options), or a larger one that has an internal power supply. You will quickly get up to the price range of the STX again though, especially with the latter.

Finally, there's the recommendation for an older receiver (dirt cheap on Craigslist etc) and regular passive speakers.

*That is quite a deal on the BX5a's as well. I see that m-Audio has a new 5" speaker out so they are probably on clear-out sale for that reason...now I am tempted to try them haha.

Thank you for the replies and recommendations

FireGryphon and MadManOriginal, Thank you for inputs on sound cards, I’ll go with the DG. That leaves me $370 for speakers, so now I can look at A5s or similar. My biggest concern and reason for going with the STX was that it had an RCA out and the speaker had an RCA input, so I didn’t have to use an adaptor.

From some antenna work I had to do, I know anytime you have to pass an analog signal through an adaptor, you get about 3dB of loss. I’m assuming that’s something I won’t notice between the two sound cards unless I had the "perfect world" setup. Is there any big noticeable difference between the types cables, RCA, TRS or the adaptors between them and the sound quality they produce?

Thanks again.

Well, in a true balanced setup separate TRS or XLR for each channel is the way to go but we aren't talking about such a setup. No, there shouldn't be any difference in sound quality between connector types for this setup, although having separate ground/shields from separate RCA-type cables is 'more ideal' than a combined ground as in a TRS connector like a 2-channel 1/8" jack. The STX is probably better than the DG overall, not just because of the connector types, but no where near in proportion to the price difference - it's a matter of diminishing returns as usual in audio land. You're probably talking 85-90% of the SQ at 1/10th the price and putting that money toward speakers makes far more sense. As for signal attenuation, there may be some voltage amplitude loss due to connector resistance but it's not a big deal because you won't be driving the components to the point where just turning up the volume to compensate would introduce any noticable audio signal distortion.

Again, if you want a 'high-end' analog output I would recommend an external DAC at the price of an STX to anyone looking at a 2 channel setup unless they are completely dead set on having an internal soundcard or need the multichannel analog outputs.

You could get a cable with the proper terminations as well, 1/8" to dual RCA cables are easy enough to find. If you want quality audio-philish cables without any insane snake oil I suggest checking out http://www.bluejeancables.com They will eat in to your budget more than a cheapo $5 cable but they are very good cables IME (they are what I use for my analog interconnects.)

As MMO said, you can get 1/8" --> RCA cables if you go that route. For a $400 budget the Xonar + A2's is pretty darn good. If you want to stretch to the A5's that'd be cool, but you'll enjoy the music either way.

InfiniteBiscuits wrote:

From some antenna work I had to do, I know anytime you have to pass an analog signal through an adaptor, you get about 3dB of loss. I’m assuming that’s something I won’t notice between the two sound cards unless I had the "perfect world" setup. Is there any big noticeable difference between the types cables, RCA, TRS or the adaptors between them and the sound quality they produce?

This 3dB loss is a function of frequency (among other things), and at audio frequencies the losses and reflections are negligible. You also have a signal that's much higher in level and with a far lower impedance. Makes all the difference. So don't let adaptors trouble you.

Thank you guys, I think that answers all my questions. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer them all.

InfiniteBiscuits wrote:

Thank you guys, I think that answers all my questions. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer them all.

Cool. Let us know what you end up getting and how they work out for you.

FireGryphon wrote:

To the OP: The difference between those sound cards might be significant in a perfect world, but in order for you to really tell the difference you'd need to listen in perfect conditions.

InfiniteBiscuits (the OP) wrote:

I listen to Pandora and mp3s.

I think you'd also need to switch to higher quality source material for it to matter. Pandora and MP3s are both lossy compressed formats; spending a lot of money upgrading your hardware to play them is going to be mostly a waste since the fidelity of the source material will quickly become your limiting factor (if it isn't already). If you're serious about upgrading the fidelity of your music, you ought to be playing physical CDs (or lossless rips thereof), and buying your music downloads from a place that distributes in WAV or FLAC format. (There's also vinyl, but I'm assuming that's not an option... )

just brew it! wrote:

I think you'd also need to switch to higher quality source material...

DVD-A or SACD?

JustAnEngineer wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

I think you'd also need to switch to higher quality source material...

DVD-A or SACD?

I was limiting things to formats where there's a reasonable selection of content available...

'Ya know, I didn't even pick that up. Is there any benefit to a Xonar over built-in audio if Pandora is the source? I'd venture to say probably not...

I'd say yes, there probably still is, just going by listening to Pandora with the same headphones through my home setup and off of other people's phones (unless maybe phones have an even lower quality stream.) At the very least the speakers will make a difference, for ~$25 the Xonar DG is kind of a no brainer imo, and if he does want to use better source material he will be all set.

I second the recommendation to forget Audioengine and go for something like the KRK Rokit 5s. If you get a sale from some place like Musician's Friend or ZZsounds.

A few weeks ago, Musician's Friend had these Rokit 6s for $149 each - this leaves you $100 for an Asus Xonar D1 or HT Omega Striker sound card.

And if you are really only concerned with stereo playback, you could go the external route and get something like a NuForce UDAC-2 for $129. This gives you the flexibility to get good sound out of any device with USB.

That's a steal on the 6's. My local Guitar Center sells the 5's for that same $149/ea, or the BX5a in pairs for $250 (at least that's what the prices were about 6 months ago when I bought the M-Audio set)

Wow, a lot of replies, I figure I should chime in again. Currently I am still thinking the Audioengine A5’s simply because of the reviews (on Amazon it is 4.5 and every thing else is 4 stars). Otherwise, I don’t really have a good means to gauge a speaker on how it would sound unless I had each of them to test. I am interested in the Rokits and the M-Audio, but I have no means of knowing how good they would sound. I am also considering the 2.1 suggestions because of the subwoofer (I wish the Audioengine sub woofer was cheaper), but I am uncertain because of the reasons listed previously. Really I feel like I just have to pick one and hope for the best because it very subjective.

The recommendation for the HT Omega Striker is a bit confusing, if I am going for a 2.1 or 2.0 system, why choose a 7.1 card over a 5.1 if I just have to adaptor it down? ( I ask this because I do not know)

just brew it!: Indeed, those are the formats I listen to, but on a friends machine (no idea what the setup was) I heard a distinct and clear difference with their mp3s than on my very old Altec Lansing speakers and 2007 mac mini on board sound. I guess I can start looking for FLAC. I have been very interested in Rhapsody, Napster, or other download service if you recommend one, or a different internet radio. VINYL IS NOT AN OPTION.

Also I am drinking and watching the US Open, so sorry for the grammer…

Thanks again

You can walk into your local Guitar Center, Sam Ash, or other music supplier and hear the M-Audios and the Rokits. And then order them online. ;p

Really I feel like I just have to pick one and hope for the best because it very subjective.

There is plenty of subjectivity in audio, but two figures you can generally rely on IF reported on the same nominal base are the efficiency, ___dB @ 1W-m, and the frequency response at the -3dB point. In between, some systems will be more linear than others, but for your price range the overall spectrum is the only thing you can be genuinely fussy about as many manufacturers won't even provide you with a frequency response plot.

It's possible to completely overdo the bass response, particularly with a lot of cheaper 2.1 systems, which will try to focus on lots of power at or slightly below the 60Hz point (since that's sort of a "natural" resonant frequency and is perceived favorably). But a good 2.1 system, or any decent pair of bookshelf speakers with at least dual 6.5" drivers or single 8" drivers, should reproduce down to around 40-45Hz without straining. Most music has quite a bit of structural content down in that range and will be missing its foundation if the speaker system can't reproduce it.

ludi wrote:

But a good 2.1 system, or any decent pair of bookshelf speakers with at least dual 6.5" drivers or single 8" drivers, should reproduce down to around 40-45Hz without straining. Most music has quite a bit of structural content down in that range and will be missing its foundation if the speaker system can't reproduce it.

Just for reference the E-string (lowest string) on a properly-tuned bass guitar has a fundamental frequency of 42Hz.

Captain Ned wrote:

ludi wrote:

But a good 2.1 system, or any decent pair of bookshelf speakers with at least dual 6.5" drivers or single 8" drivers, should reproduce down to around 40-45Hz without straining. Most music has quite a bit of structural content down in that range and will be missing its foundation if the speaker system can't reproduce it.

Just for reference the E-string (lowest string) on a properly-tuned bass guitar has a fundamental frequency of 42Hz.

That, and 5-string basses (even lower frequencies) are a common sight nowadays, and not just in metal.

morphine wrote:

That, and 5-string basses (even lower frequencies) are a common sight nowadays, and not just in metal.

I always thought that 5-strings went higher than standard to chase the John Entwistle harmonics and runs and the Geddy Lee Rickenbacker clanks?

I have the STX but bought at Newegg recertified at almost half price; I use it with earphones and it is excellent. FWIW, Creative is introducing a new high-end chip for it audio cards, and the old models may be discounted when the new sound cards come out.

Captain Ned wrote:

morphine wrote:

That, and 5-string basses (even lower frequencies) are a common sight nowadays, and not just in metal.

I always thought that 5-strings went higher than standard to chase the John Entwistle harmonics and runs and the Geddy Lee Rickenbacker clanks?

You're thinking of 6-stringers. 5-string basses have a extra lower string, while 6-string basses have that, plus an extra one on the higher end.