TR Forums

Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:04 pm

First, a minor rant. Why in the world would you, as a brick and morter store, not have many of the mice you sell out for people to play with? Especially high end mice? I can understand the $10 generic hanging on the wall, but if I'm going to plop down $50+ for a mouse that I'm going to have in my hands for hours on end, I want to hold the damn thing before I buy it. Otherwise I'm just going to go buy it online. Returning it isn't much more painful (and anyone who says otherwise has not dealt with returns at Fry's when they are busy).

So, I'm in search of a mouse. My trusty Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical is finally dying. Actually, this is the second one over something like 10 years and they don't make it anymore. The thing they replaced it with looks to be made for someone with hands the size of a fourth grader.

REQUIREMENT: Ambidextrous. Non-negotiable. I mouse left handed, but with a right hand button configuration as I occasionally swap back and forth. If you suggest something that isn't ambidextrous, I shall taunt you, perhaps even a second time.

I'm looking for a large, comfortable mouse. Something with a little heft to it. I've been looking at various gaming mice as they seem to be the only real option for a mouse that isn't a $1 plastic shell with somebodies name stamped on it. But, (see rant above) I haven't been able to really touch one so I have no real idea how they fit or feel. I don't need fancy as I'm not a gamer anymore, but I'm also willing to look past all the gamer features for a good mouse.

What have I been looking at?

*Razer Taipan
*EVGA TORQ X10
*GAMDIAS HADES
*GAMDIAS Demeter
*SteelSeries Sensei RAW (rubberized black)

Those are what have generally met my criteria and been locally available to at least look at, if not touch. The TORQ, and even Sensei, is really more than I care to pay, but I could be convinced that kind of money is worth it if it felt just right in my hand.

So, oh gerbildom, give me your thoughts on mice. In the mean time, I have a stand in HP optical mouse that works "well enough". It's too light and the primary button are obnoxiously loud with a plasticky click. Still, for $9.99, it will work for now....

--SS

Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:30 pm

How about something along the lines of the Logitech M310? Or is that still too small? (FWIW I really like the M325 myself, but I'm assuming the M325 would be on your "made for someone with hands the size of a fourth grader" blacklist... the M310 is larger than the M325.)

Since it's cordless, the battery gives it a little extra heft. And since it takes a standard AA alkaline (you could use NiMH but it doesn't really make sense, as the battery life is measured in months so you'll probably spend just a couple bucks on batteries over the lifetime of the mouse), there are no concerns about proprietary, non-user-serviceable rechargeable batteries that eventually stop holding a charge.

The M310 lists for $30, but Staples typically has 'em on sale for $20.

kvndoom · Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:46 pm

Ah, you lost me at left-handed. The M510 is symmetrical, but only has buttons on one side. It's the perfect size for me and I have fairly large hands.

NovusBogus · Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:15 pm

For what it's worth I use a Taipan and like it, though it lacks the onboard plug-and-play smarts that made Razer an innovator (because Mouse DRM amirite). I also have a Mionix Avior, which is similarly ambidextrous but I haven't used it very much. The Avior's a bit heavier, and its button switches are notably louder. Build quality on both of them is top notch though.

Regarding availability, I'm intrigued by the idea of a PC boutique shop that specializes in high-end peripherals, with floor models and gaming events for playing with the toys. Think Chuck E Cheese for grownup nerds. But I doubt it would make money; people would just try everything out and go buy what they want on Amazon. Ten years from now we'll probably wax nostalgic about the glory days when one could actually buy something other than perishables in a real store...

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:19 pm

NovusBogus wrote:
Ten years from now we'll probably wax nostalgic about the glory days when one could actually buy something other than perishables in a real store...

If drone-based delivery ever catches on you'll probably be ordering your perishables online too.

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:23 pm

just brew it! wrote:
How about something along the lines of the Logitech M310? Or is that still too small? (FWIW I really like the M325 myself, but I'm assuming the M325 would be on your "made for someone with hands the size of a fourth grader" blacklist... the M310 is larger than the M325.)

Since it's cordless, the battery gives it a little extra heft. And since it takes a standard AA alkaline (you could use NiMH but it doesn't really make sense, as the battery life is measured in months so you'll probably spend just a couple bucks on batteries over the lifetime of the mouse), there are no concerns about proprietary, non-user-serviceable rechargeable batteries that eventually stop holding a charge.

The M310 lists for $30, but Staples typically has 'em on sale for $20.

The M325 is definitely too small. I have a MS Bluetooth Notebook Mouse 5000 that is the same size. Ok for travel. Not good for day to day. The M310 is the same size as the "temp" HP mouse I'm using. It's ok, though a bit on the small side for what I prefer. My original MS mouse is 5" long and the Dell bluetooth mouse I use with my laptop is 5.5" long. Both of them seem to fit my hands better, thought he Dell is at the upper limit in size.

Not anti-wireless per-se, but it has always seemed a bit pointless to me on a desktop system. I know, one less wire and all... I do tend to prefer the extra heft in the Dell mouse since it has a pair of AA batteries in it, so there is that.

--SS

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:24 pm

kvndoom wrote:
Ah, you lost me at left-handed. The M510 is symmetrical, but only has buttons on one side. It's the perfect size for me and I have fairly large hands.

I've come across a couple instances of mice that say "ambidextrous" on the box, only to have buttons only on the left side. Makes me want to send their marketing guys a dictionary....

--SS

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:32 pm

NovusBogus wrote:
For what it's worth I use a Taipan and like it, though it lacks the onboard plug-and-play smarts that made Razer an innovator (because Mouse DRM amirite). I also have a Mionix Avior, which is similarly ambidextrous but I haven't used it very much. The Avior's a bit heavier, and its button switches are notably louder. Build quality on both of them is top notch though.

Regarding availability, I'm intrigued by the idea of a PC boutique shop that specializes in high-end peripherals, with floor models and gaming events for playing with the toys. Think Chuck E Cheese for grownup nerds. But I doubt it would make money; people would just try everything out and go buy what they want on Amazon. Ten years from now we'll probably wax nostalgic about the glory days when one could actually buy something other than perishables in a real store...

I saw several Mionix models in my looking. Wasn't sure what to make of them. I haven't exactly been paying attention to the mouse market for the last few years and short of the big names I have no idea who is who. Since I can pick up on and hold it, it's hard to judge how flimsy and "unknown" might be.

I will actually pay more for some things if I can find them in a local store. Now, if the price differential is rediculous (say 25% more) then I might go order online, but 10% more, for something that I want to be able to see, touch, and hold, that I'd pay.

--SS

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:37 pm

Anyone have a Sentey® Gammitus GS-3500? Seems to be about the right size and heft. And, its only $15 on Amazon. Argh! This goes back to "I want to be able to feel it." It's cheap. Does it feel cheap or is it just because it is lacking in gizmos and not as over priced as some others?

--SS

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:38 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
Not anti-wireless per-se, but it has always seemed a bit pointless to me on a desktop system. I know, one less wire and all... I do tend to prefer the extra heft in the Dell mouse since it has a pair of AA batteries in it, so there is that.

I switched to wireless years ago, when I had multiple systems but my KVM was PS/2 only (and USB KVMs were still somewhat pricey). I tried having a separate wired mouse for each system, but the cords kept getting tangled; hence the jump to wireless. Haven't looked back, even though I have a very nice KVM now that handles USB mice just fine. :wink:

SecretSquirrel wrote:
I've come across a couple instances of mice that say "ambidextrous" on the box, only to have buttons only on the left side. Makes me want to send their marketing guys a dictionary....

"You're holding it wrong!"
</apple>

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:40 pm

The Mionix Avior series are ambidextrous mice.

http://mionix.net/mice/avior-8200/
http://mionix.net/mice/avior-7000/
http://mionix.net/sk-by-mionix/avior-sk/

Mionix used to include 5gram weights to make a mouse have more or less heft. Looks like the Avior series lacks that feature unfortunately. They do list the weights on their product page so you can make your own determination.

MadManOriginal · Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:51 pm

Mionix Avior
EVGA Torq X5 optical
Zowie FK1 or FK2

Read up on them. The Avior and FK1/FK2 have been out for a while and have lots of user input, the EVGA is quiet new and less expensive so has less user feedback. Despite the seemingly slightly small length dimension, it's really similar to ~125mm standard full-size mice because of the weird angle cutout at the back. Also, if you have a choice, get an optical mouse with a good sensor (after reading up on it at overclock.net, the ultimate mouse snob forum) rather than laser.

anotherengineer · Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:52 pm

Done and Done

http://evoluent.com/products/vm4l/

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:55 pm

You can also add weight to an existing mouse, provided it can be taken apart without destroying it. I remember stuffing pennies wrapped in electrical tape into cheap wired mice back in the day, to give them a little more heft.

Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:05 pm

Did you test drive a $39 Logitech G300S?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:11 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
Done and Done

http://evoluent.com/products/vm4l/

I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal
food trough whopper! I fart in your general direction! You mother was
a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:12 pm

just brew it! wrote:
You can also add weight to an existing mouse, provided it can be taken apart without destroying it. I remember stuffing pennies wrapped in electrical tape into cheap wired mice back in the day, to give them a little more heft.

I have considered that. I have a good stock of 1/4oz stick on lead weights from flying airplanes. So, as you say, assuming it can be taken apart, weight isn't a huge purchase factor.

--SS

MadManOriginal · Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:13 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Did you test drive a $39 Logitech G300S?

The G300s qualifies as a 'small' mouse; length - 115mm, and once you account for the excess width of the 'wings' it is on the thin side.

Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:16 pm

MadManOriginal wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
Did you test drive a $39 Logitech G300S?

The G300s qualifies as a 'small' mouse; length - 115mm, and once you account for the excess width of the 'wings' it is on the thin side.

I was just trying to find it's dimensions. I think this is why I dismissed it.

--SS

Flatland_Spider · Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:44 pm

just brew it! wrote:
FWIW I really like the M325 myself, but I'm assuming the M325 would be on your "made for someone with hands the size of a fourth grader" blacklist.

The M325 happens to be one of my favourite mice. It's a little small, but it's comfortable and light.

The M525 is heavier, bigger, but not as comfortable.

SecretSquirrel wrote:
Not anti-wireless per-se, but it has always seemed a bit pointless to me on a desktop system.

Was in the same camp until I tried it. It's much nicer, and the cord doesn't get caught on things. Battery life is pretty incredible now, so that's not a problem anymore.

Everyone is concentrating on wireless mice these days, so it's getting harder to find a good wired mouse.

Kougar · Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:45 pm

I totally hear you. I went to BB, then Fry's, and also the local computer tech chain in town and if they had anything at all it was just two or three of the most common brand gaming mice on the display shelf. Even when they had 2-3x as many gaming mice boxed away on the shelf under them. Of the demo mice they had it seemed like most were laptop mice at that. It's very aggravating as the mouse is something that needs to fit the hand, the fit is as important as buying shoes. Otherwise you can develop hand problems which is actually an issue for me right now.

The MS Mouse you're talking about is kinda small, I used to use one before switching to the larger Wireless Intellimouse Explore 2.0. I currently use the G500 which is similar but it is only right-handed. I've not even heard of Gamdias before... I will be watching this thread with interest!

dragmor · Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:52 pm

I've been using the Razer Ouroboros for the last 9-12 months. I prefer the flat sides to the wings and use its at about 3/4 of its adjusted length. I liked it so much I bought another one for work.

http://www.razerzone.com/au-en/gaming-m ... -ouroboros

Melvar · Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:01 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
*SteelSeries Sensei RAW (rubberized black)

I have the CoD BLOps II edition of that mouse. I bought it because it was the closest thing I could find to a high-DPI Microsoft mouse with thumb buttons, and the silly branded version was cheap at the time. It's not bad overall. I grip the mouse with my fingertips, and the shape works well with that. The lift distance is quite high on some surfaces though, and even on cloth it's a bit higher than most other mice I've used.

I ended up getting the regular Sensei even though it has a glossy finish (which isn't as bad as I expected, but still sucks) because it lets you adjust the lift height. I like it, despite the stupid finish.

IMO, they both feel a lot like a Microsoft mouse only slightly bigger (humpier, mostly). If you're looking for a really big mouse it may not be big or heavy enough for you.

I still have that CoD BLOps II Sensei RAW if you want a used one. If you pay shipping I'll let you try it out before you buy it.

Arvald · Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:53 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
First, a minor rant. Why in the world would you, as a brick and morter store, not have many of the mice you sell out for people to play with? Especially high end mice? I can understand the $10 generic hanging on the wall, but if I'm going to plop down $50+ for a mouse that I'm going to have in my hands for hours on end, I want to hold the damn thing before I buy it.

Best Buy, Staples and Tiger Direct all have samples out here to play with... the issue I have is all the antitheft they attach to them affects the look and feel.

pikaporeon · Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:06 pm

I had good experiences with the Steelseries Sensei

Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:52 pm

Arvald wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
First, a minor rant. Why in the world would you, as a brick and morter store, not have many of the mice you sell out for people to play with? Especially high end mice? I can understand the $10 generic hanging on the wall, but if I'm going to plop down $50+ for a mouse that I'm going to have in my hands for hours on end, I want to hold the damn thing before I buy it.

Best Buy, Staples and Tiger Direct all have samples out here to play with... the issue I have is all the antitheft they attach to them affects the look and feel.

I was at best buy over lunch and they were the most useless so far. They didn't have single gaming mouse. Though they did have the Logitech 325 and 525. The 325 is definitely too small. I use a palm style grip of the mouse. The 525 is a good size, but it is one of those that looks ambidextrous until you go looking at the thumb switches.

We do have a reasonably local TigerDirect that I shall have to visit and see if I get luck there.

--SS

EndlessWaves · Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:19 pm

If you're not a gamer then have you consider a trackball?

Flatland_Spider · Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:28 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
The 525 is a good size, but it is one of those that looks ambidextrous until you go looking at the thumb switches.

The M525 doesn't have thumb switches. It has silly decorative plastic moldings on the sides, but it doesn't have thumb switches.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/w ... mouse-m525

Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:41 pm

Flatland_Spider wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
The 525 is a good size, but it is one of those that looks ambidextrous until you go looking at the thumb switches.

The M525 doesn't have thumb switches. It has silly decorative plastic moldings on the sides, but it doesn't have thumb switches.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/w ... mouse-m525

Sorry, it was the 510, not the 525.

--SS

MadManOriginal · Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:46 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
Arvald wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
First, a minor rant. Why in the world would you, as a brick and morter store, not have many of the mice you sell out for people to play with? Especially high end mice? I can understand the $10 generic hanging on the wall, but if I'm going to plop down $50+ for a mouse that I'm going to have in my hands for hours on end, I want to hold the damn thing before I buy it.

Best Buy, Staples and Tiger Direct all have samples out here to play with... the issue I have is all the antitheft they attach to them affects the look and feel.

I was at best buy over lunch and they were the most useless so far. They didn't have single gaming mouse. Though they did have the Logitech 325 and 525. The 325 is definitely too small. I use a palm style grip of the mouse. The 525 is a good size, but it is one of those that looks ambidextrous until you go looking at the thumb switches.

We do have a reasonably local TigerDirect that I shall have to visit and see if I get luck there.

--SS

My BB still carries gaming mice, but they are not in the computer section any more. They are kind of in a corner near the other gaming and console stuff. Maybe they moved them?

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