TR Forums

Very interesting article over at Ars

From the article:

USB 3.0 has retroactively been renamed “USB 3.1 Gen 1

The 10Gbps version of USB 3.1 that you probably think of when you think about USB 3.1 is called “USB 3.1 Gen 2.”

that's not going to be needlessly confusing...

Ugh. Thanks for the confusion Apple.


Edit: Okay, so maybe it's not completely Apple, but they're still supporting the confusion.

I'm going to go ahead and predict class action lawsuits now.

Oh ffs. What is this I don't even.

Can we get the engineers to go beat the marketing morons already?

USB 2 Full-Speed anyone?

At first this seemed extremely stupid... but I kinda see the reasoning behind it now.

Apple's USB-C port is not a USB 3.1 port. It's only a USB 3.0 port in the USB-C form-factor. The only way to differentiate between USB 3 and USB 3.1 speeds on physical USB-C ports is to use a different labeling scheme. It's clearly needed because most people discussing the new Mac Air have been assuming it's a fully functional USB 3.1 implementation just because it's a typc C multi-function connector. Not actually sure if this will hurt or help with the confusion though... I'm gonna assume it'll just cause more problems than fix.

Why not call it "USB 3.0 type-C", and "USB 3.1 type-C"?

Edit: Apple advertises the new Air as having a USB 3 type-C port (just 3, not 3.1 or 3.0).

Edit: Hmm, so apparently both 3.0 and 3.1 are available as type-A or type-C.

localhostrulez wrote:

Why not call it "USB 3.0 type-C", and "USB 3.1 type-C"?

Edit: Apple advertises the new Air as having a USB 3 type-C port (just 3, not 3.1 or 3.0).

Edit: Hmm, so apparently both 3.0 and 3.1 are available as type-A or type-C.

On the spec page they clearly state USB 3.1 Gen 1.

Kougar wrote:

At first this seemed extremely stupid... but I kinda see the reasoning behind it now.

Apple's USB-C port is not a USB 3.1 port. It's only a USB 3.0 port in the USB-C form-factor. The only way to differentiate between USB 3 and USB 3.1 speeds on physical USB-C ports is to use a different labeling scheme. It's clearly needed because most people discussing the new Mac Air have been assuming it's a fully functional USB 3.1 implementation just because it's a typc C multi-function connector. Not actually sure if this will hurt or help with the confusion though... I'm gonna assume it'll just cause more problems than fix.

It's funny that the answer to the 'confusion' is so simple and is spelled out in your post: 3.0 and 3.1. The connector type doesn't matter - USB has many connectors. Renaming USB 3.0 to '3.1 gen 1' literally makes it MORE confusing than just naming it USB 3.0 regardless of connector. It really just seems like a way to make anything with a USB 3.0 type-C connector sound better.

End User wrote:

localhostrulez wrote:

Why not call it "USB 3.0 type-C", and "USB 3.1 type-C"?

Edit: Apple advertises the new Air as having a USB 3 type-C port (just 3, not 3.1 or 3.0).

Edit: Hmm, so apparently both 3.0 and 3.1 are available as type-A or type-C.

On the spec page they clearly state USB 3.1 Gen 1.

Which is not what it says on another page on their site: http://i.imgur.com/LrDskyk.png

localhostrulez wrote:

End User wrote:

localhostrulez wrote:

Why not call it "USB 3.0 type-C", and "USB 3.1 type-C"?

Edit: Apple advertises the new Air as having a USB 3 type-C port (just 3, not 3.1 or 3.0).

Edit: Hmm, so apparently both 3.0 and 3.1 are available as type-A or type-C.

On the spec page they clearly state USB 3.1 Gen 1.

Which is not what it says on another page on their site: http://i.imgur.com/LrDskyk.png

"Speedy USB 3" doesn't really give any misleading information TBH.

Isn't this clearly just an excuse for Apple to call the Macbook's port "USB 3.1" and get away with it? (; ･`д･´)

Ahh, I really hate those scumbags.

auxy wrote:

Isn't this clearly just an excuse for Apple to call the Macbook's port "USB 3.1" and get away with it? (; ･`д･´)

Ahh, I really hate those scumbags.

It is utterly amazing how easily it is for you to trash Apple without considering the facts. I you took anytime at all to look at the product page of the new MacBook you would have seen that Apple clearly states that its USB‑C port provides the following:

• USB 3 data transfer rates
• USB 3.1 Gen 1 (up to 5 Gbps)

Both of which are correct and clearly show that the MacBook has not been given a 10.0 Gbps port.

Your confusion over the new USB standards lies clearly at the feet of the USB-IF.

I think it's lame but I can read a spec sheet. So I'm over it.

Doesn't USB 3.1 also roll in the video multiplexing, too? So calling it a 3.0 type C would not be accurate, either

Losergamer04 wrote:

Doesn't USB 3.1 also roll in the video multiplexing, too? So calling it a 3.0 type C would not be accurate, either

To be frank I've given up trying to figure it all out so I'm having a beer.

All I know is it's completely stupid because connector type has never had to be correlated with speed, but that seems to be the only reason for '3.1 gen 1' instead of '3.0'

End User wrote:

It is utterly amazing how easily it is for you to trash Apple without considering the facts. I you took anytime at all to look at the product page of the new MacBook you would have seen that Apple clearly states that its USB‑C port provides the following:

• USB 3 data transfer rates
• USB 3.1 Gen 1 (up to 5 Gbps)

Both of which are correct and clearly show that the MacBook has not been given a 10.0 Gbps port.

Your confusion over the new USB standards lies clearly at the feet of the USB-IF.

So let's examine this post in detail:

End User wrote:

without considering the facts

What facts? What am I not considering?

End User wrote:

Your confusion

Where am I confused?

End User wrote:

I you took anytime at all to look at the product page of the new MacBook you would have seen that Apple clearly states

What does this have to do with anything? Obviously they have to have the correct specifications out there somewhere. That doesn't mean anything, though. They can still call it USB 3.1 which means people are going to argue endlessly that it supports all USB 3.1 features. I'm still going to have people coming into my store who will argue with me about the capabilities of their MacBook. Those people are stupid, but that doesn't change anything. Apple is pulling a marketing coup here and there's no arguing that.

You clearly don't have to work with the general public re: computers. Take your fanboy's defense of Apple elsewhere. This is horsesh-t and tolerating it doesn't win you anything.

auxy wrote:

You clearly don't have to work with the general public re: computers.

Got out of the nursing gig?

Captain Ned wrote:

auxy wrote:

You clearly don't have to work with the general public re: computers.

Got out of the nursing gig?

Well, I wasn't a nurse, I was in billing, but, yah. Well, I got fired, eheh. ( ;∀;)

I work in retail computer services sales now. It's ... difficult.

Bummer.

auxy wrote:

Well, I wasn't a nurse, I was in billing, but, yah. Well, I got fired, eheh. ( ;∀;)

At what point does the "not getting fired" override the need for personal expression (I'm pulling a SWAG here)?

Captain Ned wrote:

auxy wrote:

Well, I wasn't a nurse, I was in billing, but, yah. Well, I got fired, eheh. ( ;∀;)

At what point does the "not getting fired" override the need for personal expression (I'm pulling a SWAG here)?

Pulling a what...? (´・ω・｀)

It wasn't about personal expression, it was about the new (young, female, white) manager firing all the other women and then hiring young black men with no experience in our places. Naturally, the company for whom I worked (a contractor that the hospital hired to help with billing, specifically government assistance billing) has since folded. I am not really one for personal expression in real life, believe it or not... (/ω＼)

auxy wrote:

Take your fanboy's defense of Apple elsewhere.

It would make more sense if you accused me of being a fanboy of the USB-IF.

auxy wrote:

They can still call it USB 3.1 which means people are going to argue endlessly that it supports all USB 3.1 features.

But they don't as the USB 3.1 spec does not exist. The correct spec names to use, as defined by the USB-IF, are USB 3.1 Gen 1 or USB 3.1 Gen 2.

Even for the people who aren't confused by this outright, what are the chances that Newegg, Amazon, etc. will get it right in all of their product listings? This is needlessly obfuscated and misleading. At least as bad as "USB 2.0 full speed", as someone has already mentioned.

Life Cycle of a Standard:

1) Biogenisis: Seeing a possibly unmet need in the marketplace for simplification and standardization, engineers propose a new type of connector and protocol.
2) Competition: The standard enters a crowded field and competes against established standards for vendor and consumer resources.
3) Diversification: As competing standards go extinct, the new standard expands to fill a variety of new or growing needs.
4) Speciation: The standard diversifies to the point where its descendants are increasingly incompatible with each other.
5) Overpopulation: The standard consumes all available resources to the point where individual members are starved for function.

Return to Step 1, and repeat.

So now that USB 3.0 becomes USB 3.1 Gen 1, why not just ditch the 'Gen 1' and rename USB 3.1 to USB 4.0? You know, I think it's not confusing enough yet.

ronch wrote:

So now that USB 3.0 becomes USB 3.1 Gen 1, why not just ditch the 'Gen 1' and rename USB 3.1 to USB 4.0? You know, I think it's not confusing enough yet.

That would actually be less confusing than what they did.

just brew it! wrote:

ronch wrote:

So now that USB 3.0 becomes USB 3.1 Gen 1, why not just ditch the 'Gen 1' and rename USB 3.1 to USB 4.0? You know, I think it's not confusing enough yet.

That would actually be less confusing than what they did.

Except people would need to clarify whether the USB 3.1 they're referring to is the original USB 3.0 or they're following the original understanding that it's the original 3.1 that's faster.

I foresee device makers label their products as either 5Gbps or 10Gbps. And whether or not they support features such as Power Delivery, etc.