TR Forums

Just Brew It! wrote:

Inconsistent layout and feel both bug me. That's why I use identical RK-9000 keyboards at home and work.

Eh, between a blue K70 at home, a reasonably good (but somewhat thin) laptop keyboard, and generic OEM keyboards at school and work, I manage. As long as that particular board isn't too bad, and I've gotten used to it.

The real problem is rubber dome keyboards that age poorly IMO (i.e. most of them).

just brew it! wrote:

CScottG wrote:

To me, even considerably more than $250 for a keyboard *could* be worth it.

I really can't see paying $250 for a keyboard.

I really, badly, wanted the "Data Hand" when it came out. That wasn't something I could afford at the time, and now you can't even get it for it's original exorbitant price adjusted for 20 years of inflation!

If someone would make an update of that for under $500 I'd be $500 poorer.

localhostrulez wrote:

The real problem is rubber dome keyboards that age poorly IMO (i.e. most of them).

There is no good reason why they can't be done with a good soft silicone instead that will last practically forever.. it's just the manufacturers being lazy, or purposefully building for failure.

The Egg wrote:

Actually, configurable backlighting is probably the #1 selling point for me.

I should also note that if you start-into gaming with something like the Oculus Rift (with keyboard use) then the lighting is pointless.

CScottG wrote:

It's somewhat ironic that I hate it most (the lighting), when playing in the dark.. ...
... I just memorize the key positions, so I don't need the lighting.

For me, it's mainly an issue with lesser-used peripheral keys which aren't immediately adjacent to WASD. I know what you're saying though, and I'm hoping Razer allows for adjusting the backlight brightness levels.

Interesting that people find backlighting is the key point, ergonomics for me all the way. I rarely look at the keyboard other than to find my initial bearings.

That ultimate hackers keyboard looks interesting, a bit like the matias iirc... seems to be quite a few of that split style available with mechanical keys, might be worth a look

The backlighting on my laptop looks leaky and annoying. Bleh. I keep it off, even in the dark. (A good screen light like the older ones would be nice, plus that works for papers.) Not a fan of red backlighting on the K70 either, so I don't use it. Not inherently opposed to that, but I don't need it either. No special keys on my boards (just media on the K70), I know how to type (on qwerty anyway), etc.

The Egg wrote:

CScottG wrote:

It's somewhat ironic that I hate it most (the lighting), when playing in the dark.. ...
... I just memorize the key positions, so I don't need the lighting.

For me, it's mainly an issue with lesser-used peripheral keys which aren't immediately adjacent to WASD.

Same sentiment here. I can type [words*] all day long without looking at my keyboard. But when I game, I have to pull my keyboard tray out so I can see it. I don't game a lot anymore, and I wouldn't say I look at my keyboard while gaming much, but I wonder how many people don't realize they take a peek every now and again. It's hard to consciously notice until your keyboard is absolutely obstructed from view (like my keyboard tray pushed in under my desk).

DPete27 wrote:

I wonder how many people don't realize they take a peek every now and again. It's hard to consciously notice until your keyboard is absolutely obstructed from view (like my keyboard tray pushed in under my desk).

Occasionally I'll type an entire phrase with my hands shifted one key to the left or right, before my brain registers the fact that what's coming up on the screen is gibberish and I glance down at the keyboard!

I've been using variations of the Microsoft Natural keyboards since '95 and I wish there was a black USB variant with MX browns. In an ideal world, it'd be an MNKE2 with MX reds for gaming, but I'll take the browns as a compromise that's nicer to type on when I'm not gaming.

My gaming machines no longer have ergonomic keyboards as I feel the MX switches are more important than the ergonomic shape, but **** me if it isn't irritating how all the ergonomic keyboards continue to use rubbish membrane switches.

The combination of ergonomic keyboards with mechanical switches seems like a niche just ripe for exploitation. No idea why nobody's doing this, other than I'm just flat-out wrong.

I had the Microsoft Natural Keyboard (PS/2 version) way back in the day and I loved it. I used it for a long, long time, right up until I tried a mechanical keyboard with MX Brown switches and fell in love. Would like to have the MNK layout with brown switches.

derFunkenstein wrote:

The combination of ergonomic keyboards with mechanical switches seems like a niche just ripe for exploitation. No idea why nobody's doing this, other than I'm just flat-out wrong.

I'm been asking the same question here on TR for months/years. I love my Natural 4000 and would pay decent money for the exact same keyboard with mechanical switches (and maybe get rid of the stupid f-lock alternative keys, including the alts on the number-pad.

I'm yet another who would pay for a mech/backlit Natural. The reason it'll never happen is because it's a Microsoft product. In typical fashion, they started with a good design and are currently implementing their mastermind plan of non-advertisement, neglect, (the 4000 hasn't had a true successor in 12+ years), and eventual abandonment (despite a sizable following).

I'm guessing they still hold a patent on the design, as I've never seen anything other than a couple generic knockoffs. There's a few other ergonomic options now (which have mechanical keys and backlighting), but I don't think I've ever seen one for less than $250. As with Windows Phone, I eventually just gave up and went with a competitor's product (in this case a K70).

I'll be posting up a review of the Kinesis Freestyle Edge before too much longer. It's a split-type ergonomic tenkeyless gaming keyboard with Cherry MX switches that supports an optional lift kit which can decline the halves outward by 5, 10, or 15 degrees. I don't have the full review ready yet, but it'll be fairly positive. I think Kinesis plans to have the keyboards available for general purchase around Black Friday.

How funny, I started this thread almost 1.5 years ago. How cool to see it revived again. Sad to see the mythical ergo gaming keyboard is still a bit of a unicorn.

The Egg wrote:

..The reason it'll never happen is because it's a Microsoft product. In typical fashion, they started with a good design and are currently implementing their mastermind plan of non-advertisement, neglect, (the 4000 hasn't had a true successor in 12+ years), and eventual abandonment (despite a sizable following).

This is SOOOOOO true when it comes to MS hardware.

Anyone remember the Microsoft Sidewinder Strategic Commander? Worse (in its case), they stopped updating the drivers and interface software within a few short years. (..at least with a keyboard, it's still a keyboard.) The mechanical equivalent of WASD movement was AWESOME (and still hasn't been replicated to this day).

This one:

http://netego.dk/wp-content/strategiccommander.jpg




They had a nice thumb trackball mouse as well that only had a few short years of sales.

"I had the Microsoft Natural Keyboard...."

In 1995 I was diagnosed with Carpal Tunnel on both wrists. I was creating content (Anime) and was under a serous time constraint. The internet was just ready to explode in the freedom of information that a normal person can use. With information given at the time I set up an ergonomic work place to complete my obligations. It saved me from getting surgery and though I never got rid of the Carpal Tunnel completely I was able to control it enough to continue my various hobbies and work careers. 22 years later it still use my setup. In 1995 here is what I used.

1, MS Natural Keyboard
2. Anir vertical mouse.
3. 1960's secretary desk measured to my sitting height.
4. 1 metal foot rest.
5. Eck Adams steel body secretary chair.
6. 1 industrial keyboard holder made out of steel that tilts in various angles. (unknown origin, given to me as a gift)

What I use now is pretty much the same thing except the Anir vertical mouse. 3M purchase the license of the Anir vertical mouse and makes their own version. The 3M versions are okay but not as good in durability as the old Anir mouse. Currently using a M910 ergonomic mouse for 4 years now. It works fine. The MS Natural Keyboards are very durable and I'm able to still get parts and used ones. I also have several Eck Adams Chairs for parts as well.

The MS 4000 keyboards are "okay'... They tend to wear out in 3 or so years in my case. Especially the lettering on the keys, they tend to wear out quickly.

I've looked into a few split key board types but I've always go back the Natural Select. Probably because I'm so used to it. The mouse however there are a few I'm eying on a Penguin vertical ergonomic mouse.

A durable split style Keyboard for gaming would be something I might want to try.

I am thinking of buying Ergonomic gaming keyboards, any recommendations?

RAGEPRO wrote:

I'll be posting up a review of the Kinesis Freestyle Edge before too much longer..

https://techreport.com/review/32869/kin ... d-reviewed

Also (video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLA7wn5rW60

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TconD669TjI