TR Forums

However not this much:
https://datamancer.com/product/the-machinist-keyboard/

wish I had bought one of those switch testers before I bought my CM Storm tenkeyless with browns. When I type lightly I miss a lot of keystrokes, but pressing harder I bottom out- looking at the force curves, I think clears would be more up my alley. Anyone had any experience with Cherry clears?

but thanks to this thread for reminding me to buy some O-rings!

llisandro wrote:

wish I had bought one of those switch testers before I bought my CM Storm tenkeyless with browns. When I type lightly I miss a lot of keystrokes, but pressing harder I bottom out- looking at the force curves, I think clears would be more up my alley. Anyone had any experience with Cherry clears?

but thanks to this thread for reminding me to buy some O-rings!

Thanks for mentioning switch testers. I think I'll go and spend the ~$20 or so to see what type of switch I will prefer before I put down good money for a keyboard.

llisandro wrote:

wish I had bought one of those switch testers before I bought my CM Storm tenkeyless with browns. When I type lightly I miss a lot of keystrokes, but pressing harder I bottom out- looking at the force curves, I think clears would be more up my alley. Anyone had any experience with Cherry clears?

but thanks to this thread for reminding me to buy some O-rings!

No experience with clears, but o-rings may be an inexpensive way for you to make peace with your current 'board.

whm1974 wrote:

Thanks for mentioning switch testers. I think I'll go and spend the ~$20 or so to see what type of switch I will prefer before I put down good money for a keyboard.

Do you have a Microcenter near you? The one near here used to have a switch tester in the keyboard aisle (not sure if they still do, I haven't been down the keyboard aisle in a couple of years).

whm1974 wrote:

However not this much:
https://datamancer.com/product/the-machinist-keyboard/

Oh, that's amazing. If I had more money than sense, I'd be all over that.

(Sorry for the out-of-order replies, hadn't clicked the link...)

just brew it! wrote:

whm1974:Thanks for mentioning switch testers. I think I'll go and spend the ~$20 or so to see what type of switch I will prefer before I put down good money for a keyboard.
Do you have a Microcenter near you? The one near here used to have a switch tester in the keyboard aisle (not sure if they still do, I haven't been down the keyboard aisle in a couple of years).

No unfortunately I don't. How would you rate the Cherry MX Blues switches? I watched this video on Model M vs cherry blues, and the blues sound a bit quieter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhdMxSXmW3I
So far as I can tell, I think I would prefer blues over other switch types based on what I'm reading and watching.

just brew it! wrote:

Do you have a Microcenter near you? The one near here used to have a switch tester in the keyboard aisle (not sure if they still do, I haven't been down the keyboard aisle in a couple of years).

When I went shopping for a mechanical keyboard at the MicroCenter near me (Cambridge, MA), the salesperson took keyboards out of their packaging and plugged them into a floor computer so I could test them out. I've shopped regularly at two of their stores over the years, and at both the salespeople have been fantastic.

Listening to you guys.... I love the clacky feel of mechanical keyboards and sure they speed up my typing but most of the subtlety is lost on me. I'm not that fast a typist. I knew this friend in college, she could type well over 120 maybe even 180 words a minute. She used to type up my handwritten college papers as a favor. My professors often wondered who was typing up my papers so perfectly with no mistakes. She was so fast, that IBM Selectric just hummed and the paper scrolled out page after page of perfect text.

whm1974 wrote:

No unfortunately I don't. How would you rate the Cherry MX Blues switches? I watched this video on Model M vs cherry blues, and the blues sound a bit quieter:

Noise level of Cherry blues depends somewhat on the keyboard design, but in general I would say that blues WITHOUT o-rings are about as loud as Model M, but the sound is higher-pitched. WITH o-rings, they are quieter than a Model M (but still higher pitched). Blues also tend to be a little less stiff (in terms of spring tension) and just a bit less tactile than Model M, in my experience; this can be a pro or a con, depending on your personal preference.

If n-key rollover matters to you, don't bother with the Model M.

Mr Bill wrote:

Listening to you guys.... I love the clacky feel of mechanical keyboards and sure they speed up my typing but most of the subtlety is lost on me. I'm not that fast a typist. I knew this friend in college, she could type well over 120 maybe even 180 words a minute. She used to type up my handwritten college papers as a favor. My professors often wondered who was typing up my papers so perfectly with no mistakes. She was so fast, that IBM Selectric just hummed and the paper scrolled out page after page of perfect text.

The Model M was designed to mimic the feel of the Selectric and the Model 029 keypunch.

I had a Smith Corona in college (couldn't afford a Selectric). I wonder what happened to that... I probably got rid of it when we moved to our current house ~15 years ago.

Captain Ned wrote:

Embrace your inner Luddite and bask in the glory of 1391401.

Damn straight.Got 2 1991 examples and a spare 1995 Model M.

Had them for nearly 10 years so far.(Picked them up in August 2007 from EBay.)

just brew it! wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

No unfortunately I don't. How would you rate the Cherry MX Blues switches? I watched this video on Model M vs cherry blues, and the blues sound a bit quieter:

Noise level of Cherry blues depends somewhat on the keyboard design, but in general I would say that blues WITHOUT o-rings are about as loud as Model M, but the sound is higher-pitched. WITH o-rings, they are quieter than a Model M (but still higher pitched). Blues also tend to be a little less stiff (in terms of spring tension) and just a bit less tactile than Model M, in my experience; this can be a pro or a con, depending on your personal preference.

If n-key rollover matters to you, don't bother with the Model M.

I was thinking the same thing about the n-key rollover. Since I'm a gamer, the Model M isn't for me. Thanks.

@flip-mode: Thanks for starting this thread. I learn more about mechanical keyboards from reading this thread that resulting in more reading and watching Youtube videos then I did four years ago when I brought my current mechanical keyboard. And more importantly, I learned enough about switches to make more informed choices about my next keyboard.

I have no idea what kind of switches I have, but I start typing normally I bottom out and I can hear and feel the the keystrokes but only when I bottom out. I do tend to type hard and it is hard for me not bottom out when I type. Maybe Cherry Blues with O-rings will be the best switch for me? What do you guys think?

whm, are you familiar with Space Invaders keyswitches? Pretty obscure, but good stuff

I found out about this when trying to ID an old keyboard I have with awesome feel.

Vhalidictes wrote:

whm, are you familiar with Space Invaders keyswitches? Pretty obscure, but good stuff

I found out about this when trying to ID an old keyboard I have with awesome feel.

Well, clearly not TEMPEST-hardened, and the sticker on it piques my curiosity as to just which 3-letter agency it came from.

EDIT: FORSCOM: US Army Forces Command.

Vhalidictes wrote:

whm, are you familiar with Space Invaders keyswitches? Pretty obscure, but good stuff

I found out about this when trying to ID an old keyboard I have with awesome feel.

First time I heard about them.

I thought the g810 was with locitech's in-house switch, not cherry browns?

On the topic of noise, I hate the amount of noise that mechanical keyboards make. I'm typing right now on a BlackWidow Ultimate. I really like the feel of the keys, and I like the clickiness of these Greetech Razer Greens, especially for games, but I dislike the noise levels and also some aspects of the noise profile especially the spacebar's "thunk".

The noise levels of all aspects of these things needs to be taken down, especially if these things want to keep selling themselves at the prices they do. A run-of-the-mill membrane board from logitech performs adequate, and that's all a keyboard needs to be. I do like the feel of the mechanical keys but I find the noise to be a major drawback.

But the worst is not the bottoming out. Indeed, you tend to learn not to bottom out when you type on these things. I think the distances could be improved there, though. The difference between bottoming out and not doing it is very small. It's the topping out. I find the keys all make far more noise topping out than bottoming out. Especially the darn spacebar. I despise the "thunk" caused by the darn stabilizers. O-rings should be not something sold in kits. Now granted, the topping out situation is worse on these boards because they have a spring which is somewhere north of 50g. Still though, the topping out is a problem and the noise it makes needs to be reduced. All  mechanical boards would need their noise levels to be reduced by 60% or so.

It bothers me because I'm suspicious they've intentionally left noise-reduction on the backburner because they believe the noise these boards make to be a selling point or marketing tool. Mulling a g610 brown but the price has increased so I'm less on it.

I don't think it is the stabilizers that make the space bar so loud. It is simply the fact that there is a "hard stop" at the top of the switch travel, and the large space bar resonates, amplifying the noise. And yes, I'm sure the stiff springs of your greens makes it even louder.

I would certainly be willing to pay a little extra for something like blue switches that have integrated damping at both the top and bottom of the stroke, leaving just the tactile click. Depending on how this is implemented, the upper damper could even do double duty as a seal, to help prevent dust and liquids from getting into the switch.

just brew it! wrote:

I don't think it is the stabilizers that make the space bar so loud. It is simply the fact that there is a "hard stop" at the top of the switch travel, and the large space bar resonates, amplifying the noise. And yes, I'm sure the stiff springs of your greens makes it even louder.

I would certainly be willing to pay a little extra for something like blue switches that have integrated damping at both the top and bottom of the stroke, leaving just the tactile click. Depending on how this is implemented, the upper damper could even do double duty as a seal, to help prevent dust and liquids from getting into the switch.

It didn't occur to me. The noise is so percussive I just assumed it had something to do with the metal rod in there on account of its hardness but the spacebar's shape and weight resonating with the feedback of the switch itself is logical. And yes to the quiet blues. It would be great to have quiet blues. I would also add to the wishlist that the noise profile of the click mechanism be adjusted to be a little deeper and softer. More of a "tek" than a "click".

I imagine it also doesn't help that people sometimes slide their thumb off the space bar instead of lifting straight up. When this happens it "pops" up suddenly instead of being released more gradually.

llisandro wrote:

wish I had bought one of those switch testers before I bought my CM Storm tenkeyless with browns. When I type lightly I miss a lot of keystrokes, but pressing harder I bottom out- looking at the force curves, I think clears would be more up my alley. Anyone had any experience with Cherry clears?

but thanks to this thread for reminding me to buy some O-rings!

I know exactly what you mean. I did the exact same thing buying a Das Keyboard with MX Browns, but they bottom-out too easily and it got irritating (and loud) to type on after awhile. Tried to adjust my typing force but it wasn't working out, so I bought a CODE keyboard with MX Clears. Price is a bit high if you can't find them on sale, but some other brands have started to use Clears as well. I chose Clears because I didn't want the audible clicks of the Greens.

The MX Clears require a fair amount of force to press. While I still bottom out the occasional key my fingers are already starting to rise to move on to the next key, so typing is considerably less clacky than with the MX Browns because of it. The tactile feedback is hard to miss given the force required to initially depress a key, but once you get past that initial bump/actuation point it takes less force to completely depress the key. It's tactile enough I can double-tap a key without fully releasing it, and it's impossible to trigger keys simply from resting twitchy fingers on them.You genuinely have to want to press the key.

I'm naturally heavy-handed at typing so I enjoy the stiff keys, they're the complete antithesis of the MX Browns. But if you don't like the initial stiffness before the key starts to move then you won't enjoy MX Clears. Personally I'm pretty happy with the CODE keyboard though. After using them for more than a year the MX Clears have soured me entirely on MX Brown keyboards.

At least I never made that mistake. After trying the switch tester at Microcenter I decided that browns are not for me. I suppose if I was in an office environment where the noise of the blues was an issue, browns (with o-rings) might be the least worst option.

fhohj wrote:

The noise levels of all aspects of these things needs to be taken down, especially if these things want to keep selling themselves at the prices they do. A run-of-the-mill membrane board from logitech performs adequate, and that's all a keyboard needs to be. I do like the feel of the mechanical keys but I find the noise to be a major drawback.

I disagree with membrane keyboards being adequate, although the more expensive ones are way better. However their is no way I'm going back to membrane keyboards after using   even a cheap mechanical one.

just brew it! wrote:

At least I never made that mistake. After trying the switch tester at Microcenter I decided that browns are not for me. I suppose if I was in an office environment where the noise of the blues was an issue, browns (with o-rings) might be the least worst option.

I'll keep the O-rings in mind when I go look for a new keyboard in a few months. Thanks for mentioning them.

fhohj wrote:

And yes to the quiet blues. It would be great to have quiet blues.

Isn't that close to being Brown or Clear anyway? What about muting the noise with O rings?

Are using O-rings worth using?

C'mon WHM.

First of all, no one could tell you if YOU will like them or not. Secondly, if the numerous people in this thread that have suggested them thought they weren't worth it, they wouldn't have suggested using them.

Flying Fox wrote:

fhohj wrote:

And yes to the quiet blues. It would be great to have quiet blues.

Isn't that close to being Brown or Clear anyway? What about muting the noise with O rings?

Blues have a much more pronounced tactile click than browns, but are less stiff than clears. O-rings cushion the bottoming out noise but not the noise if the key is released quickly.

DancinJack wrote:

C'mon WHM.

First of all, no one could tell you if YOU will like them or not.  Secondly, if the numerous people in this thread that have suggested them thought they weren't worth it, they wouldn't have suggested using them.

Sorry. I guess I'm going to have to buy a switch tester with O-rings to find out for myself.

I'd advise against that. It's not really going to tell you how they feel when you're typing full out 100+WPM. I guess if you're already buying a switch tester then sure have at it, but I wouldn't go buy a switch tester and o-rings for the purpose of testing out how o-rings feel/sound.

DancinJack wrote:

I'd advise against that.  It's not really going to tell you how they feel when you're typing full out 100+WPM.  I guess if you're already buying a switch tester then sure have at it, but I wouldn't go buy a switch tester and o-rings for the purpose of testing out how o-rings feel/sound.

Geez I would have never that choosing a keyboard would be so much effort for someone who doesn't write for a living. I know those who do, are very picky about their keyboards and will spend good money on a suitable one.