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trackerben
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:11 am

Anyway, I just picked up a white Topre/Leopold Tenkeyless silent (87USW) from the Yodobashi store at Osaka. The full-size RGB model does not come in a silent form and it sports cheaper ABS caps, as opposed to the PBT double-shot ones of the compact model I bought.

The 87USW is a solid wonder, makes my ancient subnotebook feel reborn! I remember keypads on hundred-thousand-dollar medical diagnostic stations that go "thwock"with the same keyswitch feel. The box even fits into my hand carry. Very pricey, but I'm happy already.
 
whm1974
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:47 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
I have issues with most mechanical keyboards because I like super-light keys and most of the designs are above 60 cN.

I discovered a old NMB keyboard with "space invaders" switches... and I hope it doesn't die any time soon because it's near-perfect.

If you're curious: https://imgur.com/a/fH526

I heard great things about Space Invaders switches, are they still being made?
 
Chuckaluphagus
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:19 pm

So, I managed to brick my venerated Ducky Zero 2108, with my preferred Cherry MX Black switches, by flashing the wrong firmware. In my defense, it was on the Ducky firmware page, MARKED AS A FIRMWARE UPDATE TO MY KEYBOARD THAT FIXED THE PROBLEM I WAS HAVING.

I'm not a little annoyed.

So I'm typing on my backup mechanical keyboard (don't judge me) that has Cherry Reds, which are way too easy to actuate. Black switches aren't commonly available, but I'm going to go to MicroCenter on Wednesday to check out Browns and see whether those work all right for me. Blues are right out, I tried a keyboard with those for a week and the clicking meant it was either the keyboard or me that was going to die.

Given my Ducky just bricked, I'm going to try another brand MicroCenter has Das Keyboard, Corsair, Logitech, and a veritable horde of companies I've never even heard of that I guess are trying to cash in on the "gaming keyboard" craze. Personally, I need this for typing much more than for gaming, so flashy is out and solid and reliable are in.

Does anyone have a preferred brand of mechanical they're currently happy with?
 
llisandro
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:24 pm

Brand recommendations here. You'll see Ducky is well-regarded :) I also see a lot of firmware-bricking threads for Duckys- some say reinstalling another firmware sometimes fixes it? Corsair is a common whipping boy in the MK community. IMO they're not that bad, but they have lower build quality for the price, thin caps, and use a nonstandard layout which makes getting replacement caps a pain. From Microcenter I think CoolerMaster is a good option (esp Pro series with PBT caps), maybe Das. I have a CM Quickfire, and it's solid for the price. Das and WASD make pretty solid understated boards. But again, MX Blacks is the sticking point.

For MX Blacks, you could buy from a reputable vendor. They've got a good return policy. I read somewhere these guys are an authorized Ducky repair shop in the US. (I once tried to get them to repair a board and they had a huge wait time, so I RMA'd it instead, caveat emptor). Filco/Leopold/Varmilo are generally accepted to have very solid build quality. I had a KBParadise board for a while- it was solid enough for the price.

Or maybe get a glorious (GMMK) kit on amazon and install whatever switch you like, and pop on your understated Ducky caps?
 
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:50 pm

Thank you, that's a wealth of useful information. Much appreciated. Am planning on buying from mechanicalkeyboards.com if I can't find anything suitable at MicroCenter.

I attempted to reflash my Ducky Zero with an older firmware I had stashed, but the keyboard is no longer detected under Windows or Linux, tried on a few different computers. That doesn't mean it's done for, it just means it's become a project wherein I open up the case and use an Arduino as an ISP programmer. Never done it for a keyboard, but I've done it for microcontrollers, which I'm guessing will effectively work out the same.

Edit: Also, I was not previously aware of the Glorious GMMK kit. Actually tempting, need to see what it would take to pull the existing Blacks from my Ducky Zero.
Last edited by Chuckaluphagus on Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:56 pm

llisandro wrote:
Das and WASD make pretty solid understated boards. But again, MX Blacks is the sticking point.

You can customize WASD's keyboard with black switches. (Their regular one, not the CODE one.)
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llisandro
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:43 pm

Chuckaluphagus wrote:

Edit: Also, I was not previously aware of the Glorious GMMK kit. Actually tempting, need to see what it would take to pull the existing Blacks from my Ducky Zero.


Nope, it uses "kailh hotswap sockets" and you need switches with no solder on the pins, the tolerances are pretty tight (thus the hold pretty well). This is a relatively new socket, but more boards are picking it up. The garish Team Wolf boards us it too, some cheaper boards use holtites, which aren't as robust. It's a great way to try out new switches.

Modern MX blacks are kinda scratchy, if you buy the new "retooled" Cherry MX blacks loose they will be smoother. Also kailh BOX blacks are very smooth, have reduced wobbl, and are pretty cheap (I like novelkeys.xyz for switches). There's also a silenced version of mx blacks that have rubber bumpers that cushion bottom-out.
 
Chuckaluphagus
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:15 pm

As I was already heading to MicroCenter for other reasons, and since I have a lot of typing to do, I ended up buying a Das Keyboard 4 Pro with Cherry MX Browns. It's taking some getting used to by compared to the Blacks, but they at least have some pushback to them as opposed to the nearly non-existent feedback on the Reds of my emergency backup keyboard. I'm working ok with it after a few thousand words, and I'll give it a week before I make a final judgment.

Thanks for the assistance.
 
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:22 pm

When i got my wireless mechanical keyboard there were almost no options that fit my desire for a minimal profile, but now there's a whole bunch on amazon. On that topic, it's been a few months using it, and i've been pretty satisfied. The battery life was listed as a few hours with lights on, but even that is enough for me to do whatever i need to do at the end of a day. If i'm going to have a long gaming session on a day off i just turn the lights off. I actually haven't even charged it this week and it's going fine. The battery life has been well worth the convenience of having no cables which is important in my case since i don't have the ability to set up dedicated wire routes. I'm using my laptops built in bluetooth and it has never missed a key.
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:41 pm

Chuckaluphagus wrote:
As I was already heading to MicroCenter for other reasons, and since I have a lot of typing to do, I ended up buying a Das Keyboard 4 Pro with Cherry MX Browns. It's taking some getting used to by compared to the Blacks, but they at least have some pushback to them as opposed to the nearly non-existent feedback on the Reds of my emergency backup keyboard. I'm working ok with it after a few thousand words, and I'll give it a week before I make a final judgment.

Thanks for the assistance.

I find Browns to be too touchy for my liking. I really, really love Blues.

I was a model M kid growing up so I already liked the higher tension switches. I gave Greens a try, but for all-day typing they're just too heavy for me.
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:10 am

DancinJack wrote:
Chuckaluphagus wrote:
As I was already heading to MicroCenter for other reasons, and since I have a lot of typing to do, I ended up buying a Das Keyboard 4 Pro with Cherry MX Browns. It's taking some getting used to by compared to the Blacks, but they at least have some pushback to them as opposed to the nearly non-existent feedback on the Reds of my emergency backup keyboard. I'm working ok with it after a few thousand words, and I'll give it a week before I make a final judgment.

Thanks for the assistance.

I find Browns to be too touchy for my liking. I really, really love Blues.

I hear you. Another MX blue fanatic here. Preferably with the thin (minimal travel reduction) o-rings. I like the slight cushioning at the bottom of the stroke if I bottom out, but (unlike the thicker o-rings) they don't result in a drastic reduction in key travel. While the thicker o-rings do provide more cushioning and noise reduction, they actually make it more likely that you will bottom out, since the bottoming out occurs much closer to the tactile actuation point.
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:23 am

just brew it! wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
Chuckaluphagus wrote:
As I was already heading to MicroCenter for other reasons, and since I have a lot of typing to do, I ended up buying a Das Keyboard 4 Pro with Cherry MX Browns. It's taking some getting used to by compared to the Blacks, but they at least have some pushback to them as opposed to the nearly non-existent feedback on the Reds of my emergency backup keyboard. I'm working ok with it after a few thousand words, and I'll give it a week before I make a final judgment.

Thanks for the assistance.

I find Browns to be too touchy for my liking. I really, really love Blues.

I hear you. Another MX blue fanatic here. Preferably with the thin (minimal travel reduction) o-rings. I like the slight cushioning at the bottom of the stroke if I bottom out, but (unlike the thicker o-rings) they don't result in a drastic reduction in key travel. While the thicker o-rings do provide more cushioning and noise reduction, they actually make it more likely that you will bottom out, since the bottoming out occurs much closer to the tactile actuation point.


Yeah, love those blues too just not the illuminated ones. They don't feel anything like a smooth as the original blues and I think they're quite a bit louder too and not in a nice way. I only went with the back light ones because the cheapest-possible standard mx blue keyboard I brought before it started to loose it's keycaps after only a few months and I thought a back light key cap should suffer less wear.
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ptsant
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:43 am

Chuckaluphagus wrote:
So, I managed to brick my venerated Ducky Zero 2108, with my preferred Cherry MX Black switches, by flashing the wrong firmware. In my defense, it was on the Ducky firmware page, MARKED AS A FIRMWARE UPDATE TO MY KEYBOARD THAT FIXED THE PROBLEM I WAS HAVING.

I'm not a little annoyed.


Wouldn't it be possible to repair it by flashing the chip on an EEPROM programmer? I'm sure Ducky or an experienced technician could do this. There are videos showing how to disassemble the Ducky on Youtube, but soldering the chip can be hard/impossible. Worth opening anyway.
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:03 am

ptsant wrote:
Chuckaluphagus wrote:
So, I managed to brick my venerated Ducky Zero 2108, with my preferred Cherry MX Black switches, by flashing the wrong firmware. In my defense, it was on the Ducky firmware page, MARKED AS A FIRMWARE UPDATE TO MY KEYBOARD THAT FIXED THE PROBLEM I WAS HAVING.

I'm not a little annoyed.


Wouldn't it be possible to repair it by flashing the chip on an EEPROM programmer? I'm sure Ducky or an experienced technician could do this. There are videos showing how to disassemble the Ducky on Youtube, but soldering the chip can be hard/impossible. Worth opening anyway.

I'm hoping that I can put together a jig with some pins and flash the chip in place, without needing to desolder it. Definitely worth a shot when I have a few hours to sit down and inspect it.
 
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:50 am

I just picked up an HP Omen keyboard a few months ago because I felt like it.

The clicking is a little annoying, but I expected it and can ignore. Nice that I can lower the backlighting to a really low setting so I can leave it on and forget about it. I do use it at night, but strong ambient light is just annoying.

I spilled a little bit on it and literally nothing happened. That was cool. I'm not sure if it's actually protected or that was just a happy design byproduct.

As for comfort/design I'd still rather be using a Logitech Wave model, and will probably go back to those someday if I need another KB. This just happened to be on sale where I was when I was looking at keyboards with money. :p
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:02 am

LostCat wrote:
I just picked up an HP Omen keyboard a few months ago because I felt like it.

Heh, I had no idea HP was selling mechanical keyboards; it looks like a fairly generic 104-key backlit. I imagine they're just slapping their name on something that was already out there. At least the price looks reasonable.

The marketing blurb is pretty ridiculous though: "Command a destructive symphony of keystrokes" :lol:

And leave it to HP to get it only half right (marketing a unit with blue switches as a gaming keyboard).

https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/omen-by-hp-keyboard-1100
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llisandro
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:31 am

We're in a bit of a golden age of keyswitch innovation- lots of new switches coming out recently. Basically Cherry MX is Budweiser and we've entered the craft beer phase. I think getting a hotswap board is a great way to get into things, as you can really dial in your switch preference now. big thing is a lot of these botique switches have heavier springs, which helps me prevent bottoming out, as there's more of a "cushion" after the tactile event.

Kailh's BOX switches pretty cool. Square slider wobbles less than most MX switches. The BOX White switch and its descendants use a different mechanism of making a click- a "click-bar." They're pretty popular as a Blue alternative. Mostly this is enthusiasts buying and soldering switches, but commercial boards are supposed to be coming out soon (they have a low-profile version already out). Kailh used to take a lot of flack, they used to provide the cheap switches in Razer boards, but now they're making some really interesting stuff and are well-regarded. They've even worked with enthusiasts (Novelkeys) to produce new variants of switches, often going heavier and more tactile. Novelkeys' BOX Navy/Jade (white variants with heavier springs/clickbar) and BOX Royal (tactile, stronger leaf) switches make a blue feel linear they're so tactile. Like, fingers punching through paper tactile, it's nuts. There are now silenced switches (linears and tactile), with soft plastic integrated into the slider, much quieter (upstroke also dampened) and less mushy than O-rings, with no reduction in travel. Wooting has an "analog" switch that lets you set the actuation point. Cool stuff.

story:
The current craze on /r/mechmarket is Holy Pandas, the slider from a Halo switch, in the housing of a Panda switch, these frankenswitches were going for like $4 a switch recently, as it's the most tactile MX-style switch currently, and MK enthusiasts are rich/crazy. Both switches are rare, driving up prices. Pandas only had one production run, round 2 failed QC so they got super-rare. Halo Clears were only available from Massdrop on one of their boards- the story goes that Input Club designed this Halo switch, but then entered into a deal to have Masdrop produce them (MD paid for tooling). These switches came out on their K-Type board, and Input Club thought they had the rights to sell the switches individually, but MD and a judge disagreed, so only MD was selling them, and they only sold them with a $200 board. I sold my set of 87 Halo Clears for $130 last week, and they had been going for upwards of $150. A week later, MD announces they're selling Halos loose, 90 for $45!!! 8)

I'm currently typing on a Varmilo VA68M- really solid, and I love the layout, as I can't go without a nav cluster but prefer a smaller board with a separate numpad on the left. Bought it with browns, but will soon be modding it to Zilents. There's a guy who makes custom PCBs (user-programmable) with Kailh Hotswap sockets. At work I've also got a Matias Quiet Click (a dampened tactile switch) that I like a lot- it's got ALPS-style switches, way more tactile than any common Cherry switch, they also make a clicky version.
 
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:10 am

Calling Cherry MX "Budweiser" is kind of an insult to the MX switches, which are still great. I'd equate Budweiser with membrane switches and Cherry MX would be some more upscale mass-produced sort of thing. :lol:

Maybe membranes are Natty Lite and the Cherry clones are Budweiser.
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:48 am

Cherry switches are like Sierra Nevada or Sam Adams. "Better" beer produced by larger (but not frikkin' massive on the scale of AB/Inbev) brewers.
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:53 am

So then, Hall-effect switches would be the equivalent of Belgian Trappist brews?
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llisandro
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:57 am

haha ^ JBI gets it!

Edit: This is what I had typed in another window just before JBI replied:
Haha, I was hoping to draw JBI out! Ok, ok, maybe like a Sam Adams? Or whatever the "nice beer" is at an airport Chilis? :) You think it's pretty great coming from swill when you're 18, but once you learn about craft it's kind of in a useless middle ground between good beer and stuff you buy in cases to serve to your uncle at a family reunion? My point being, once you've tried other stuff, Cherry is kinda meh. Solid, but not very exciting.

p.s. Apologies to Sam, I think they serve an incredibly important role in the American beer world as a "gateway" to get Americans to try something other than lager. Just not something I seek out nowadays :)
Last edited by llisandro on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Ned, Hall Effect stuff or maybe Unicomp Buckling Springs or https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/.
 
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:15 pm

llisandro wrote:
Ned, Hall Effect stuff or maybe Unicomp Buckling Springs or https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/.

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Unicomp? Pffft. Why buy the copy when you already own the original.
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:47 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Heh, I had no idea HP was selling mechanical keyboards; it looks like a fairly generic 104-key backlit. I imagine they're just slapping their name on something that was already out there. At least the price looks reasonable.

The marketing blurb is pretty ridiculous though: "Command a destructive symphony of keystrokes" :lol:

And leave it to HP to get it only half right (marketing a unit with blue switches as a gaming keyboard).

https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/omen-by-hp-keyboard-1100

I think people who're buying HP gaming kit just don't care about wading through all the other crap.

It's unremarkable kit, but it's usually good kit nonetheless.
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:48 pm

The main draw of Hall effect is that the switches are completely impervious to spills since there are no electrical contacts to foul. The ones I've seen have all been incorporated into linear mechanisms though (along the lines of Cherry red/black in terms of feel). No reason you couldn't make a tactile mechanism with Hall effect though; heck the Model M is actually a membrane keyboard at heart (but with some really clever mechanical stuff on top).
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llisandro
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Re: So, mechanical keyboards

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:43 pm

Wooting has a clicky hall switch. Early reviews of the linear version say it's really smooth, it seems like a better design than the other optical to me (hotswap and self contained in the switch housing).

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