Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, mac_h8r1, Nemesis
JustAnEngineer wrote:Where are you going to get the energy needed to charge your magical battery?
Arclight wrote:Tell that to the Chinese. For every ton of coal consumption that has been reduced in the U.S. and in Europe, China has burned several more tons.cheaper than coal
JustAnEngineer wrote:Arclight wrote:Tell that to the Chinese. For every ton of coal consumption that has been reduced in the U.S. and in Europe, China has burned several more tons.cheaper than coal
http://www.indexmundi.com/energy//?prod ... onsumption
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=3350
In 2016, countries from Chile to the United Arab Emirates broke records with deals to generate electricity from sunshine for less than 3 cents a kilowatt-hour, half the average global cost of coal power. Now, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Mexico are planning auctions and tenders for this year, aiming to drop prices even further.
JustAnEngineer wrote:Assuming that the capital cost of the photovoltaic unit and the even larger cost of the storage system is of no consequence to you, UPS systems come in all sizes, up to those large enough to power a small city (e.g.: Fairbanks, AK) for as long as it takes to start up standby generators powered by diesel, propane or natural gas. If your energy needs are small, you could survive. I am certain that you and society would be better off to purchase your electricity from the commercial power grid and encourage greater efficiency at the commercial/industrial level. A large unit powering a whole neighborhood is more efficient than lots of tiny units. An even larger unit powering a small town is even more efficient... and so on.
If the total cost of solar were actually lower than coal, why would the Chinese be burning billions of tons of the stuff each year? Do they hate blue skies that much?
just brew it! wrote:If your current electric service is unreliable enough that you feel a need for a UPS now, just get a UPS. I don't see why you need to tie that decision to whether you plan to eventually go with a PowerWall-type device and solar panels. An affordable single-house solar solution is still years down the road, and the batteries and inverters to power an entire house will probably never be cheap. Even assuming the price of solar panels and batteries comes down substantially in the future, the cost of a UPS to run a PC and a few peripherals will be lost in the noise.
JustAnEngineer wrote:Bigger is better. As energy storage and alternative power generation technologies improve, the place to apply those technologies is on the power grid. Transmission inefficiencies are much smaller than the inefficiencies of small isolated systems compared to large connected ones. If you need a UPS because your power utility is unreliable, get a UPS. If you want to make the world better by switching to less-polluting technology, you could accomplish more by doing it on an industrial scale.
JustAnEngineer wrote:Just recognize that whatever reductions in coal usage are taking place in North America and Europe are more than offset by increases in pollution in China.
just brew it! wrote:
Once the price of the tech becomes more affordable, I expect the shift will actually happen first at the individual and local (municipality) level. I just don't agree with the OP on the timescale of it becoming affordable enough to be widely adopted. He says 5 years; I'm thinking more like 10-20.
Kougar wrote:CAES is viable in some of the flatter states that lack a handy mountain on which to build a lake.Aye, they still need to find a ready, efficient means of storing energy to equalize the power flow. Kinetic-based storage mechanisms only go so far and few places have the geography to make hydro-electric storage possible.
Captain Ned wrote:Hmm. Shoving 1,000 PSI air into an underground hole. There will be failures, and they will be spectacular.
just brew it! wrote:Captain Ned wrote:Also sounds like it is rather inefficient unless you're willing to deal with the added complexity of a secondary system to store the heat produced during compression.Hmm. Shoving 1,000 PSI air into an underground hole. There will be failures, and they will be spectacular.
just brew it! wrote:Captain Ned wrote:Hmm. Shoving 1,000 PSI air into an underground hole. There will be failures, and they will be spectacular.
Also sounds like it is rather inefficient unless you're willing to deal with the added complexity of a secondary system to store the heat produced during compression.
Captain Ned wrote:just brew it! wrote:Captain Ned wrote:Also sounds like it is rather inefficient unless you're willing to deal with the added complexity of a secondary system to store the heat produced during compression.Hmm. Shoving 1,000 PSI air into an underground hole. There will be failures, and they will be spectacular.
Reading the article, the compression heat is part of the process.
ludi wrote:Yeah, but the nearest alternative -- which is being installed in various California locations right now to help meet the state's regulatory requirements for renewables
Captain Ned wrote:ludi wrote:Yeah, but the nearest alternative -- which is being installed in various California locations right now to help meet the state's regulatory requirements for renewables
The day that one of those Li-Ion containers self-destructs will make for some epic filmage.
ludi wrote:These are lead-acid IIRC, and they have internal halon fire supression along with all the other support systems. A large failure probably wouldn't be catastrophic, but it would be expensive.
Captain Ned wrote:http://www.apexcaes.com/bethel-energy-centerHmm. Shoving 1,000 PSI air into an underground hole. There will be failures, and they will be spectacular.
Captain Ned wrote:Hmm. Shoving 1,000 PSI air into an underground hole. There will be failures, and they will be spectacular.