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Jaketech
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Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:13 pm

Hey Tech Report forum, just the guys I need to be speaking to!

I wasn't sure where to post this in the "Overclocking, Tweaking, & Cooling", "Processors" etc so if it would go better somewhere else just let me know guys and I will get it moved to a more specific section but General is a pretty good place to start.

Anyhow, I have a Dell Latitude E6420 (yes it's old) and this laptop has been a beast of a computer for the price range it was in when I bought it new from a site I have been using for quite a while http://www.used.forsale/canada as I have used for all the new parts for my laptop I have had to purchase since... As most things, it's getting old now and starting to have a few glitches here and there. Now I'm not to computer technical but I will do my best to explain the situation I'm in. When I bought the laptop it was running on windows 7...... I updated to the windows 10 and it seemed a little slower but no major problems that other people weren't having also. But, in the last two weeks, my Dell has slowed right down to a ridiculous snail's pace. I did the standard windows restore and deleted everything off of my laptop, updated and started from new, this was yesterday. My laptop is still taking a good 7 minutes to start up and then it runs at 100% disk for about 5mins after I see the initial home screen.

Is there anything I can do to take as much stress off of the startup as possible so I can spread that disk space out a little? any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated, guys.

SPECS
Make: Dell
Model: Latitude E6420
RAM: 4GB
Hard Drive: 1TB
Processor: Intel i5 2.5GHz
Graphics card: NVIDIA NVS 4200M
System type: x64 bit

If there is any other information you guys need just comment below and I will get it added on. If not I am looking forward to speaking with you all and getting some solutions to my disk usage issue!

Cheers everyone
Last edited by Jaketech on Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:18 pm

First, how full is the HD?

Second, given its age, and depending on how it's been treated, there's a non-zero chance that the heatsink/heatpipe has slightly lifted off the CPU and forced it into throttling.
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ludi
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:19 am

Using an E6420 myself, albeit with integrated graphics only. Like the Cap, I would suspect heat and throttling. If so, then either the heatsink isn't making good contact, the fan is dying/dead, or the intake is full of dust. Got any pets?
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DPete27
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:26 am

1) Open the task manager and click the startup tab (used to be command: msconfig) and disable any third party programs (that aren't from Microsoft/Intel/etc)
2) Run disk defragment. I think this should be happening by default, but it never hurts to check.
3) Check thermals. Start with canned air in the heatsink exhaust. I put this third because I feel Windows startup is more disk IO sensitive than CPU frequency dependent.
4) Check hard drive SMART attributes.
5) Do a complete reformat. Not just a restore. You can download the Windows 10 installer here. That gives you a clean version of Windows without any of the bloatware Dell included. You shouldn't need your Windows key to do this.
6) Last resort. Get a Solid State Drive if you only need 240GB-500GB of storage. You can get 500GB for $150 or less, 250GB for $75 or so. Obviously the machine was running fine before, so unless the hdd is failing, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to be returned to use. Regardless, an SSD will be at least 2x faster at loading programs and should take about 20 seconds to startup Win10. The good thing about this is if you don't end up keeping the laptop much longer, the SSD can always be carried over to a new machine. Most sub $700-$800 laptops still come with mechanical hdds.
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Jaketech
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:37 pm

I will tackle getting the fans and vents cleaned out first hoping that this is the problem if not, how would I check the "Heatsink/pipe" to make sure that, that isn't what is causing the problem??


After the cleaning and making sure my components are all in good order, I will then go ahead and use the step by step that DPete27 provided and see where that leaves my software!!

Thanks guys
 
ludi
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:01 pm

Jaketech wrote:
if not, how would I check the "Heatsink/pipe" to make sure that, that isn't what is causing the problem??


Complete disassembly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-sSpw1egU

You basically need only 00:00-02:00 (disks removal and rear cover disassembly), then 12:20-12:50 (heatsink removal). I've had mine roughly half disassembled at one point, and IIRC none of the chassis and keyboard disassembly shown between 02:00-12:50 is required for removing the heatsink. The four captive spring-screws are the only fasteners. Could be slightly different on a unit with a discrete graphics chip. For clarity, you are attempting to remove this or something very similar; take note of the tiny fan power connector.

The factory-applied heatsink paste or compound might be a bit baked on, try rotating the assembly gently to release, rather than prying upward. Any compound left on the sink or chip(s) can be gently removed using 90% isopropyl rubbing alcohol and a plastic dish scraper or membership card. Then apply a thin coat of fresh heatsink compound before reassembling.
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Jaketech
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:36 pm

ludi wrote:
Jaketech wrote:
if not, how would I check the "Heatsink/pipe" to make sure that, that isn't what is causing the problem??


Complete disassembly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-sSpw1egU

You basically need only 00:00-02:00 (disks removal and rear cover disassembly), then 12:20-12:50 (heatsink removal). I've had mine roughly half disassembled at one point, and IIRC none of the chassis and keyboard disassembly shown between 02:00-12:50 is required for removing the heatsink. The four captive spring-screws are the only fasteners. Could be slightly different on a unit with a discrete graphics chip. For clarity, you are attempting to remove this or something very similar; take note of the tiny fan power connector.

The factory-applied heatsink paste or compound might be a bit baked on, try rotating the assembly gently to release, rather than prying upward. Any compound left on the sink or chip(s) can be gently removed using 90% isopropyl rubbing alcohol and a plastic dish scraper or membership card. Then apply a thin coat of fresh heatsink compound before reassembling.


Thank you so much for going all this way to help me out! I'm going to watch the YouTube video now and see how my machine comes apart "properly" and the second link in your explanation looks familiar as I have removed the back to try and blast dust out already, unfortunately, it wasn't this... Awesome explanation!

Thanks again I will be back after the video.
 
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:04 pm

How much free space is left? In my experience old hard drives get painfully slow when they are over 90% full. Older drives can also get bad blocks which can hurt performance before the drive fails completely.

Hit Win key + X at the same time, choose Event Viewer, then on the left expand Windows Logs and open the System Log. Look for any Warnings or Errors with a disk or controller error. Those usually mean the drive is failing.
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Jaketech
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:25 am

My Dell has been cleaned to the best of my abilities using the video on YouTube, some rubber gloves and all the tools specified. It really needed a clean and has done the computer some good in terms of airflow and cooling. I also had to re-apply the thermal paste to the heatsink assembly as it was peeling away easily. I also found some ants in there which seemed pretty odd???

Unfortunately after 2 days of use, I am still getting some starting up issues and very high Disk usage on start-up. I am going to try and factory restore the whole laptop then install Windows from new and not add any of my saved data back to the laptop and see how i goes for a couple of days.

Thanks again guys and I will be back soon enough
 
Chrispy_
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:04 am

Very very slow bootups, especially after a full reinstall of windows are often a sign that the disk is on its last legs.

To eliminate cooling/throttling as the issue, run something like CoreTemp to see how hot it's running. It'll typically throttle at 95C, but high temperatures (such as 80-90C) aren't uncommon on laptops, especially when under load, since the cooling system is usually designed to operate as quietly as possible whilst keeping the CPU under a specific target temperature (often 90C).

Assuming you've fixed any temperature problems with your cleanout, I would make sure you have a full backup of your data on the disk and then run some more demanding disk checks. For a 1TB spinning disk, something like HD Tune (free) should do the trick. The health check may come back as okay even on a dying drive, because although it can read and write to all the sectors, it may be struggling to do so. Ideally, a mechanical drive will look like this (don't worry about the MB/sec speeds, it varies from disk to disk). What you want is a fairly tight grouping of the yellow access time dots, with a blue squiggle that is in a reasonably tight range:

Image

A couple of minor dips at the beginning where the OS files reside is nothing to worry about but if your drive spends a lot of time spiking and the yellow dots are all over the place, then your disk is almost dead.

Image
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Jaketech
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:39 am

If it is the Disk, at least I have everything backed-up... I will get on them links straight away, follow your instructions above and see what results I get, back shortly.

Thanks
 
bfg-9000
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:53 am

I've had multiple Seagate drives fail by simply slowing to a crawl, with their SeaTools utility claiming no errors and everything's A-OK. Nevertheless I had no problems getting RMA from Seagate so they must know about this, or even know this is how they are intentionally programmed in order to reduce costly support issues.

Similarly I've seldom seen a FORD Super Duty display any check engine light after the 80k mile federal emissions warranty is up, even when it is obviously missing, so it's just a difference in corporate philosophy.
 
MileageMayVary
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:17 am

1. Change to a SSD
2. Increase your ram to 8GB
3. ???
4. Profit
Main rig: Ryzen 3600X, R9 290@1100MHz, 16GB@2933MHz, 1080-1440-1080 Ultrasharps.
 
MileageMayVary
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:52 am

Jaketech wrote:
Unfortunately after 2 days of use, I am still getting some starting up issues and very high Disk usage on start-up.


To elaborate on my last post:
This quote makes me think either (as other mentioned) that you have a dying drive.
OR
If the disk is in super high usage and it isn't dying then the system is memory paging and you need more RAM.


EDIT:
4GB RAM $32 http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/latitude-e6420/CT2293363
525GB SSD $150 http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/latitude-e6420/CT8595135
Last edited by MileageMayVary on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Aether
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Re: Start up issues with my Dell, Help

Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:52 am

"Get a Solid State Drive if you only need 240GB-500GB of storage. You can get 500GB for $150 or less, 250GB for $75 or so. Obviously the machine was running fine before, so unless the hdd is failing, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to be returned to use. Regardless, an SSD will be at least 2x faster at loading programs and should take about 20 seconds to startup Win10. The good thing about this is if you don't end up keeping the laptop much longer, the SSD can always be carried over to a new machine. Most sub $700-$800 laptops still come with mechanical hdds."

Since it sounds like you need to purchase a new drive, I'll second the recommendation for an SSD. If you can afford an SSD that is large enough to hold all of your data, it will make your laptop feel much snappier than an HDD. We have some very old laptops in use at my lab that are still very useful because we swapped in SSDs for the mechanical disks that came with them.

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