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Glorious
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:14 pm

Since you seem to be a devout member of the the Church of Bitcoin, with the initial paper as your bible and Satoshi as your prophet... :)
It might have been implemented by Him, or at least with His implicit approval:


I'm not playing this dishonest game with you. Here are comments from both of those individuals ON THAT SAME PAGE:

Satoshi wrote:
Doing your own verifying and indexing is the only way to be sure your index data is secure. If you copy blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat from an untrusted source, there's no way to know if you can trust all the contents in them.


THIS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO HAMMER INTO YOUR HEAD, POST AFTER POST.

Jeff Garzik wrote:
Who said untrusted? The proposal is that you distribute blk0001.dat (and only blk0001.dat) in the bitcoin.org official client downloads. And of course the client will spend some time verifying blk0001.dat upon first use. This is unavoidable, and nobody has proposed changing or eliminating verification.


Except that's exactly what you are proposing here.

:roll:
 
meerkt
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:25 pm

My last post was mostly a joke. You're taking it all too seriously. Never mind.
 
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:28 pm

meerkt wrote:
My last post was mostly a joke. You're taking it all too seriously. Never mind.

No he's not. He's just looking for a fight like usual. Please continue I haven't finished my beer yet.
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Glorious
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:55 pm

NeonSun wrote:
I've decided that I'm going to fund any computer /software upgrades with only what I mine. I've already bought some games on Steam by converting Ethereum to Bitcoin.


...and then to dollars (good luck!) because Steam doesn't take BTC anymore.
 
whm1974
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:23 pm

DPete27 wrote:

Reading this, it would be wise not actually spend any money buying crypto currencies but only mine them, and then get cash out when you make major money.
 
Kougar
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:48 pm

Eight days of ~50% mining time on a single 1080 Ti and I have $25 in my wallet. Getting paid to keep the room warm is pretty nice.

Glorious wrote:
NeonSun wrote:
I've decided that I'm going to fund any computer /software upgrades with only what I mine. I've already bought some games on Steam by converting Ethereum to Bitcoin.


...and then to dollars (good luck!) because Steam doesn't take BTC anymore.


Does make me curious how long it will take the lightning network to take over for BTC transactions. Steam dropped BTC support because of the transaction fees, which one of the things lightning will supposedly fix.
 
Redocbew
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:05 am

Question: If the transaction fee is based on the size of the transaction, then isn't that a huge problem for the long term sustainability of the network? The more it grows, the more it'll cost to get any hard currency out of it, and this "lightning" thing only looks to delay the inevitable. I know payment fees were supposed to be optional, but even in the context of this big crazy hairball we've been calling cryptocurrency that option seems pretty unrealistic at the moment.
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:57 am

Redocbew wrote:
Question: If the transaction fee is based on the size of the transaction, then isn't that a huge problem for the long term sustainability of the network? The more it grows, the more it'll cost to get any hard currency out of it, and this "lightning" thing only looks to delay the inevitable. I know payment fees were supposed to be optional, but even in the context of this big crazy hairball we've been calling cryptocurrency that option seems pretty unrealistic at the moment.


No. I suggest you read the Lightning primer. The fee for a transaction across a payment channel can be pennies, or even free, and since anyone can create payment channels market economics should keep the fees minimal. Any opened pool between users could handle thousands of transactions with none of them ever needing to be recorded on the blockchain.

In theory it sounds great. But I wouldn't be one of those people already using the lightning network for real money transactions. It also has the side effect of making cryptocurrency pretty darn attractive for illicit payments as it adds many layers and invisible transactions when attempting to follow funds around.
 
Redocbew
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:07 am

Kougar wrote:
No. I suggest you read the Lightning primer.


Satoshi Nakamoto's design for bitcoin is comically unscalable.


Initially, that design was vital to achieving Nakamoto's vision of a fully decentralized payment network. But as Purdue computer scientist Pedro Moreno-Sanchez told Ars, it creates a big challenge as the network becomes more popular. "We have reached a point where it's not suitable any more to keep growing," he said.


After reading that it would seem the short answer is "yes". :P

My understanding is that network congestion is not the only driver for higher transaction fees, and it also sounds like a tangent of the full node vs SPV thing where you're leaving many of the proposed benefits of cryptocurrency on the table just to make it less annoying to use.
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leor
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:14 am

It’s funny, during the beginning of the etherum craze, I had a pair of 7950 cards, which were just about the best cards for mining. I also lived in a complex that didn’t charge me electricity, but I didn’t see the thing catching on so I never bothered looking into it. Fast forward to now, makes me wonder how many eth I could have gotten if I just set them to mine for a year or so now that the price is pushing 1k per coin again.

So I’ve finally decided to use what I have to mine, did tons of research, and it seems like the best profit ratio for a casual miner is a newish alt coin called Electroneum. It’s a fork off monero, so it also supports cpu mining at a decent hashrate. It’s got a nice all in one miner that auto detects your hardware and sets you to go. I’ve been at it for about a month and have pulled 3000 coins so far. They’re only worth .09 per coin right now but that’s still close to 300 bucks, and that ain’t hey.

And if that one goes up... weeee!

Oh and edit - Ryzen CPUs can mine their asses off. I have a 4 core Ryzen 1400 and it gets about a 250 hashrate. That’s almost as much as as a GTX 1050 which gets 280. An 8 core Ryzen should outmine a GTX 980/1060, and don’t get me started on Threadripper.
 
whm1974
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:31 am

leor wrote:
It’s funny, during the beginning of the etherum craze, I had a pair of 7950 cards, which were just about the best cards for mining. I also lived in a complex that didn’t charge me electricity, but I didn’t see the thing catching on so I never bothered looking into it. Fast forward to now, makes me wonder how many eth I could have gotten if I just set them to mine for a year or so now that the price is pushing 1k per coin again.

So I’ve finally decided to use what I have to mine, did tons of research, and it seems like the best profit ratio for a casual miner is a newish alt coin called Electroneum. It’s a fork off monero, so it also supports cpu mining at a decent hashrate. It’s got a nice all in one miner that auto detects your hardware and sets you to go. I’ve been at it for about a month and have pulled 3000 coins so far. They’re only worth .09 per coin right now but that’s still close to 300 bucks, and that ain’t hey.

And if that one goes up... weeee!

Oh and edit - Ryzen CPUs can mine their asses off. I have a 4 core Ryzen 1400 and it gets about a 250 hashrate. That’s almost as much as as a GTX 1050 which gets 280. An 8 core Ryzen should outmine a GTX 980/1060, and don’t get me started on Threadripper.

Just great, now we are to have a shortage of CPUs as well...
 
Glorious
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:35 am

Kougar wrote:
Does make me curious how long it will take the lightning network to take over for BTC transactions.


The answer has been "six months" for roughly three years now. (here's an example from someone prominent over two years ago now: https://twitter.com/starkness/status/676599570898419712)

So, um, six months? :lol:

Kougar wrote:
Steam dropped BTC support because of the transaction fees, which one of the things lightning will supposedly fix.


Not exactly, you still need to lock BTC into those channels, and since you have to on-board and off-board payments, you've just doubled the amount of transactions required for a singular exchange. :wink:

Kougar wrote:
No. I suggest you read the Lightning primer. The fee for a transaction across a payment channel can be pennies, or even free, and since anyone can create payment channels market economics should keep the fees minimal. Any opened pool between users could handle thousands of transactions with none of them ever needing to be recorded on the blockchain.


Why would I lock up serious amounts of bitcoin into a payment channel for the benefit of third parties without getting something in return? I pay on-chain fees to put the money in, and I pay on-chain fees to take the money out, right?

So what "market economics" suggest that I'm going to be chomping at the bit to compete in a race-to-the-bottom via making my personal money illiquid in a way that has high entrance/exit costs?

By the way, this is taking the entire issue of routing (which doesn't exist) and balancing (which they completely ignore) as solved, when in reality, LN proponents cannot even describe vaguely how either is supposed to work.

Really, now, don't be fooled.
 
leor
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:18 am

whm1974 wrote:
Just great, now we are to have a shortage of CPUs as well...

I wouldn’t worry about that, Monero is damn near impossible to mine with CPUs given how the difficulty has risen, my comment was more of a PSA for people who might be interested in casual mining with what they have. Most people here have a fairly recent rig, and I know a bunch purchased Ryzens, so something like easy to mine like ETN is a nice way to make a few bucks on the side.

That’s not to say that GPUs aren’t still better, they are, it’s just that with most other coins CPUs are totally useless. If anyone’s interested I can post a quick getting started guide.
 
DPete27
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:38 am

whm1974 wrote:
DPete27 wrote:

Reading this, it would be wise not actually spend any money buying crypto currencies but only mine them, and then get cash out when you make major money.

I think mining rewards would still be taxable.
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DancinJack
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:54 am

DEATH TO MINING! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

give me back my PC industry.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
whm1974
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:11 am

DancinJack wrote:
DEATH TO MINING! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

give me back my PC industry.

AMEN!!!
 
leor
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:50 am

whm1974 wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
DEATH TO MINING! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

give me back my PC industry.

AMEN!!!

I think that ship has sailed, crypto isn’t going anywhere. It’s a kind of an “if you can’t beat em, join em situation,” or maybe I’m a fan of getting money.
 
DancinJack
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:51 am

leor wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
DEATH TO MINING! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

give me back my PC industry.

AMEN!!!

I think that ship has sailed, crypto isn’t going anywhere. It’s a kind of an “if you can’t beat em, join em situation,” or maybe I’m a fan of getting money.

I didn't say cryptocurrencies, I said mining for them.
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:02 pm

DancinJack wrote:
leor wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
AMEN!!!

I think that ship has sailed, crypto isn’t going anywhere. It’s a kind of an “if you can’t beat em, join em situation,” or maybe I’m a fan of getting money.

I didn't say cryptocurrencies, I said mining for them.

Lots of coins are moving to proof of stake, which will diminish mining, but I also don’t think mining is going anywhere for a while with all these alt coins popping up.
 
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:05 pm

leor wrote:
Lots of coins are moving to proof of stake, which will diminish mining, but I also don’t think mining is going anywhere for a while with all these alt coins popping up.

Nah, I know that. I just don't have to and won't like it.
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leor
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:49 am

DancinJack wrote:
leor wrote:
Lots of coins are moving to proof of stake, which will diminish mining, but I also don’t think mining is going anywhere for a while with all these alt coins popping up.

Nah, I know that. I just don't have to and won't like it.

I get the frustration, but the basis behind it is well intended. When mining started it was available to everybody, but as people started to see there was serious money to be made, and the ASICs were developed, mining became something you needed to do as a serious investment, and it put casual mining out of reach. Coming up with ASIC resistant coins put the potential to get involved back in the hands of the every day user, should they be so inclined. Obviously the side effect was lots of the big dogs going bat **** crazy, and buying up 50 cards to setup mining rigs god knows where.

I happen to keep a somewhat proficient gaming rig in every room, so while I'm crazy late to the game, I finally said "screw it" and jumped in. Would have been a lot better if I made that call 4 years ago but whatever. I picked Electroneum because they actually intend for their coins to be real currency, you can see the CEO talking about it here. https://electroneum.com/2018/02/09/how- ... nt-part-2/

Are they gonna achieve all of their goals? Who knows, but this is kind of scratching that old FAH itch I had back in day. I like checking my stats, my hashrates and occasionally tweaking my setups to see how much more performance I can wring out of what I have.
 
DancinJack
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:22 am

leor wrote:
Are they gonna achieve all of their goals? Who knows, but this is kind of scratching that old FAH itch I had back in day. I like checking my stats, my hashrates and occasionally tweaking my setups to see how much more performance I can wring out of what I have.

I know what you mean by this. I've thought about it like that a few times too. I just don't really agree that is the reality of the current state of mining. Most, like high nineties percent, people are mining to make money, and not to further the uptake of Blockchain. If it were the latter I'd have way less of a problem, but alas, this is America and we all strive to make a buck. I don't necessarily blame people for wanting to, but if I could snap my fingers and make the mining go away I would.
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leor
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:42 pm

DancinJack wrote:
I know what you mean by this. I've thought about it like that a few times too. I just don't really agree that is the reality of the current state of mining. Most, like high nineties percent, people are mining to make money, and not to further the uptake of Blockchain. If it were the latter I'd have way less of a problem, but alas, this is America and we all strive to make a buck. I don't necessarily blame people for wanting to, but if I could snap my fingers and make the mining go away I would.

Hey man, all I can say is I thumbed my nose at all this for years and I feel stupid now. With just the rig in your sig you could make 40-50 dollars a month mining ETN, and that's assuming it stays at the current price which we know it won't. The greed you speak of is a wave we can ride or not, BTC is predicted to hit between 25k-50k by the end of the year and it drags all other coins with it.

Do I think all of this stuff is stupid? Of course I do. I'd rather if, instead of furthering some random cryptographic algorithm that delivers no value to the world that the coins be based on something that actually solves some of the world's problems, but to your point the majority of the world doesn't operate that way... yet.

In the interim, standing on the sidelines has probably resulted in $100k worth of missed opportunity. I'd rather pocket that cash and do something decent with it.
 
drfish
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:35 pm

leor wrote:
Are they gonna achieve all of their goals? Who knows, but this is kind of scratching that old FAH itch I had back in day. I like checking my stats, my hashrates and occasionally tweaking my setups to see how much more performance I can wring out of what I have.


Heh. :wink:
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:44 pm

drfish wrote:
Heh. :wink:

So I’m going to go ahead and call that the most evil “heh” in the history of the internet.
 
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:34 pm

meerkt wrote:
Cash and credit cards just aren't always an ideal solution. Why does PayPal exist?


Actually, cash and credit cards are the perfect solution for all legal (and even most illegal) transactions. Paypal exists to help move cash and credit around easier and faster. This is my first entry in this thread, and with that, I should probably duck out.
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Kougar
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:46 am

leor wrote:
I happen to keep a somewhat proficient gaming rig in every room, so while I'm crazy late to the game, I finally said "screw it" and jumped in. Would have been a lot better if I made that call 4 years ago but whatever. I picked Electroneum because they actually intend for their coins to be real currency, you can see the CEO talking about it here. https://electroneum.com/2018/02/09/how- ... nt-part-2/

Are they gonna achieve all of their goals? Who knows, but this is kind of scratching that old FAH itch I had back in day. I like checking my stats, my hashrates and occasionally tweaking my setups to see how much more performance I can wring out of what I have.


Did you take a look at Nicehash? I briefly played with Ethereum, but after a couple days switched to Nicehash around the time it got popular. Instead of picking a coin and mining for yourself, people pay Nicehash to use your system to mine whatever coin they wanted to buy, and you are guaranteed steady payments in BTC. Nicehash will figure out what's the most profitable things to mine on each rig and is entirely automated. Making better than double what Minergate allowed with ETH. A single 1080 Ti gets about $4.50-5.50 per day if the system is left alone. At that rate the ROI on a 1080 Ti is seven months including electricity cost. :o
 
leor
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:26 am

Kougar wrote:
Did you take a look at Nicehash? I briefly played with Ethereum, but after a couple days switched to Nicehash around the time it got popular. Instead of picking a coin and mining for yourself, people pay Nicehash to use your system to mine whatever coin they wanted to buy, and you are guaranteed steady payments in BTC. Nicehash will figure out what's the most profitable things to mine on each rig and is entirely automated. Making better than double what Minergate allowed with ETH. A single 1080 Ti gets about $4.50-5.50 per day if the system is left alone. At that rate the ROI on a 1080 Ti is seven months including electricity cost. :o

I’m seeing about $3 per day here, but that could be because BTC is down right now. https://www.nicehash.com/profitability- ... rrency=USD

Mining ETN on that card + your CPU will get you $2.00-$2.50 per day, but that represents 25-30 coins. My take here is that if they’re successful getting ETN to be actual currency rather than speculation, the coins current $.08 value will go up, maybe by a lot. It’s definitely riskier than just doing hicehash and taking the money, but where BTC will probably double or triple by the end of the year, ETN could increase by a factor of 20. It was valued at $.17 when I first started (5 weeks ago, lol), so even if it gets back there that pushes the profits above Nicehash.

At the end of the day, this is all so goofy and volatile it’s really what pretend silly thing strikes your fancy.
 
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:10 pm

whm1974 wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
DEATH TO MINING! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

give me back my PC industry.

AMEN!!!


Would have joined you guys in this, but then my nephew wanted me help him get into mining first of the year, so now I gonna say Mining FTW!
He is mining ether and expects to recoup his investment in 10 months or less..........I tried to talk him out of it before he started, but since I couldnt, I got to help him and support him.

leor wrote:
...................don’t get me started on Threadripper.

This was a good read regarding Threadripper and Mining.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/02 ... ncy_mining


leor wrote:
drfish wrote:
Heh. :wink:

So I’m going to go ahead and call that the most evil “heh” in the history of the internet.

That was an epic battle. Damn, I miss the good old days.
 
Kougar
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Re: So who here is actually mining?

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:35 am

leor wrote:
I’m seeing about $3 per day here, but that could be because BTC is down right now. https://www.nicehash.com/profitability- ... rrency=USD

At the end of the day, this is all so goofy and volatile it’s really what pretend silly thing strikes your fancy.


I think their hardware estimates take into account the average for that hardware. At stock speeds I get about $3.50 as of this moment. Locking the GDDR5x to its rated 11Gb/s (since it downclocks when folding, mining, or doing anything useful) and bumping the core up to 2050Mhz will gain quite a lot, though usually it's the memory bandwidth bump that does it. If such a minor bump to the memory has this much of an impact then it is why I think GDDR6 cards are going to go nuts when they launch this year....

Their calculating tool is fun to play with, just check out the Antminer L3+. It even has Titan V stats updating for it, makes me wonder who is using their office workstations to mine. :P

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