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http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... -keyboard/

$300 a pop. No way I'm spending that much on a keyboard. Captain Ned might be interested though!

It's nice to know somebody is making a keyboard that not only has the real buckling springs, but is heavy enough to kill a man in close quarters combat should the need ever arise.

Yes, I believe the "F" stands for "F**king-heavy".

I did not realize that the original Model F had a solid die-cast zinc outer casing.

just brew it! wrote:

$300 a pop. No way I'm spending that much on a keyboard. Captain Ned might be interested though!

Nope. I'm too used to the layout of the Model M at this point to change out.

I worked with someone that claimed to have made the M back in the day. Truly well-built devices. $300 is a lot of money, but if it's built like they used to be then it will be the last keyboard you need to buy.

Just noticed that the Model F lacks function keys. I imagine that's a deal-breaker for most people.

If they really wanted to update the Model F for the new millennium they should've added function keys and (possibly) a Super/Windows key too. I guess they're going more for the retro/nostalgia vibe than usability.

I actually have an original Model F in its original box. Sadly, it doesn't work. I got it from a business that closed about 3 years ago. It was in their attic with a hand written marking saying it was defective as of July 1984. In the box is the keyboard, all the original packaging, a keyboard overlay for Lotus 123 and the printed report from the repair shop saying it'd cost something like $200 to fix but only $150 to replace with a different brand keyboard.

I've picked the brain of a few vintage keyboard enthusiasts to try to fix it, but so far have come up with nothing. I've dismantled it down to just the DIN cable and PCB and it still suffers from repeated stuck key problems which cause my system to freeze. I have an IBM 5150 (which I came across later on) so I really really want to get this keyboard working to complete the set. If I could get someone to program a new ROM chip for it, I would attempt to swap that out. I was able to obtain a dump of one of the original chips, but I lack the equipment to program an 8748 microcontroller.

If anyone has any ideas as to where I could go for more information about fixing this or what could be causing the problem, I'd appreciate it.

Further info on this:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.p ... rs-fixable
http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=48070

Captain Ned wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

$300 a pop. No way I'm spending that much on a keyboard. Captain Ned might be interested though!

Nope. I'm too used to the layout of the Model M at this point to change out.

A keyboard with the M's layout and F's internals might be pretty interesting.

ozzuneoj wrote:

I actually have an original Model F in its original box. Sadly, it doesn't work. I got it from a business that closed about 3 years ago. It was in their attic with a hand written marking saying it was defective as of July 1984. In the box is the keyboard, all the original packaging, a keyboard overlay for Lotus 123 and the printed report from the repair shop saying it'd cost something like $200 to fix but only $150 to replace with a different brand keyboard.

I've picked the brain of a few vintage keyboard enthusiasts to try to fix it, but so far have come up with nothing. I've dismantled it down to just the DIN cable and PCB and it still suffers from repeated stuck key problems which cause my system to freeze. I have an IBM 5150 (which I came across later on) so I really really want to get this keyboard working to complete the set. If I could get someone to program a new ROM chip for it, I would attempt to swap that out. I was able to obtain a dump of one of the original chips, but I lack the equipment to program an 8748 microcontroller.

If anyone has any ideas as to where I could go for more information about fixing this or what could be causing the problem, I'd appreciate it.

Further info on this:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.p ... rs-fixable
http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=48070

Sounds like the capacitive sensing circuit is borked. Without knowing the details of how the sensing is done, it could be something simple (an out-of-tolerance or failed passive component like a resistor or capacitor), or a failed controller chip. The former would be an easy fix; the latter not so much.

Could also be dirty power. If there are any electrolytic caps on the PCB you could try replacing those.

None of the pictures linked in the first thread load, so I can't give you any more than general suggestions.

just brew it! wrote:

Just noticed that the Model F lacks function keys. I imagine that's a deal-breaker for most people.

If they really wanted to update the Model F for the new millennium they should've added function keys and (possibly) a Super/Windows key too. I guess they're going more for the retro/nostalgia vibe than usability.

As far as I can tell that's a feature of the new production model, it looks to me like the originals had function keys (but I think the keyboards come with blank super keys)

Was the Model F even used in x86 PCs? Even IBM type PC keyboards I've ever used had function keys.

TwistedKestrel wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

Just noticed that the Model F lacks function keys. I imagine that's a deal-breaker for most people.

If they really wanted to update the Model F for the new millennium they should've added function keys and (possibly) a Super/Windows key too. I guess they're going more for the retro/nostalgia vibe than usability.

As far as I can tell that's a feature of the new production model, it looks to me like the originals had function keys (but I think the keyboards come with blank super keys)

The pictures in the article don't show holes in the metal plate for function keys.

Just going by what I could find, I'm not a keyboard expert.

https://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Model_F

Sounds cool, but I don't care for the arrow keys being crammed up into the numpad. IMO, the ideal setup would be to use the construction/materials of a Model F, but with a standard Model M layout.

just brew it! wrote:

Could also be dirty power. If there are any electrolytic caps on the PCB you could try replacing those.

None of the pictures linked in the first thread load, so I can't give you any more than general suggestions.

Those don't, but these from the second thread do:

https://goo.gl/photos/vcKsPKahqoWmGRjC9

I don't see much that can fail from mere aging, though. Besides resistors and ICs, the silver-bodied devices appear to be the old-style tantalum caps, the deep burgundy upright blobs look like silver-mica types, and there's one round reddish-orange thing that could be another type of film capacitor or possibly an encapsuplated inductor. And I have no clue what the silver rectangle might be.

ludi wrote:

And I have no clue what the silver rectangle might be.

Ha, funny thing. Like it was a quartz crystal plus keyboard row decoder/driver.

I'd try replacing the silvery caps, if you can figure out the values/voltages (can't make out all of the markings from the pics).

Checking the values of the various resistors against their color codes would be another thing to try.

Silvery rectangle could very well be the guts of the capacitive sensing circuit. It appears to be connected to the switch matrix, and a metal can would make sense since you'd probably want to shield the analog electronics used for the capacitive sensing from EMI.