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meerkt
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:11 pm

Actual usage of the battery degrades it, sure.
But I do wonder if your specific charging habits matter much.
 
whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:22 pm

Thanks guys for the tips on the care of the battery. I shall keep this stuff in mind.
 
ludi
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:06 pm

meerkt wrote:
Actual usage of the battery degrades it, sure.
But I do wonder if your specific charging habits matter much.

Sure they can. Both charging and discharging are electro-chemical processes that cause small amounts of damage to both the storage medium and the electrodes. Intelligent charger circuitry will structure the charge cycle and limit the maximum discharge rate in order to limit the impact, but the battery life gradually shortens as damage accrues.
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whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:34 pm

ludi wrote:
meerkt wrote:
Actual usage of the battery degrades it, sure.
But I do wonder if your specific charging habits matter much.

Sure they can. Both charging and discharging are electro-chemical processes that cause small amounts of damage to both the storage medium and the electrodes. Intelligent charger circuitry will structure the charge cycle and limit the maximum discharge rate in order to limit the impact, but the battery life gradually shortens as damage accrues.

So at some point I will have to replace the battery, good thing I chose a laptop with a removable one.
 
Topinio
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:53 pm

whm1974 wrote:
So at some point I will have to replace the battery, good thing I chose a laptop with a removable one.

Unless you're quite unlucky, the battery will not need replacing. If it does, you're already 5Y and 4 generations old, nearly 5, and the battery would be £90 here so IMO not worth it on a <$200 laptop. Gz, though, that's a nice purchase at that price 8)
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whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:03 pm

Topinio wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
So at some point I will have to replace the battery, good thing I chose a laptop with a removable one.

Unless you're quite unlucky, the battery will not need replacing. If it does, you're already 5Y and 4 generations old, nearly 5, and the battery would be £90 here so IMO not worth it on a <$200 laptop. Gz, though, that's a nice purchase at that price 8)

Yeah but but I think I've gotten a better deal getting this instead of a new notebook for the same price, which I'm not sure if you can even replace the battery on new laptops at this price range. Quite frankly I'm not sure if I even want to get a brand new notebook at this price range anyway. The ones I've seen are really flimsy and too low spec to be useful for me.
 
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:23 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
Screen:
Clean it with a soft cloth wet with water and then wrung out so that it's just damp.
If you have greasy fingerprints, put a single drop of dishsoap in a glass of water and then use a wrung cloth with that.

Keyboard:
Vacuum cleaner with soft brush attachment.

Rest of it:
Don't drop it
Don't clog the intake vents
Don't leave things plugged in unnecessarily in case you trip over the cables or knock it and the thing plugged into it rips the socket out of the mainboard

Battery:
Lithium batteries wear out faster when they're flat. Keep them topped up when possible and if you can, avoid running them all the way down to zero.


They also wear out faster when they're fully charged. lenovo has some tools that let you control how much the laptop charges, I keep mine around 60% if I'm going to be leaving it plugged in for long periods.
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Topinio
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:26 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Yeah but but I think I've gotten a better deal getting this instead of a new notebook for the same price, which I'm not sure if you can even replace the battery on new laptops at this price range. Quite frankly I'm not sure if I even want to get a brand new notebook at this price range anyway. The ones I've seen are really flimsy and too low spec to be useful for me.

Oh, I fully agree, this is a nice deal and you have a nice machine there. Just meant if the battery went wrong in a couple of years you could probably pick up a T450 which would be nicer, for another $200.
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:00 am

just brew it! wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
Lithium batteries wear out faster when they're flat. Keep them topped up when possible and if you can, avoid running them all the way down to zero.

I've heard conflicting advice about this. Everyone seems to agree (and my experience confirms) that leaving them sit in a discharged state for extended periods of time will definitely wreck them. However, I've also seen a lot of sites claim that they are least stressed when they are at around 40-50%. I'm not obsessive about topping up. E.g. if I know I've still got around 50% charge and only need it to last through my morning commute, I might not bother getting it out of the backpack and charging it the night before; I just wait and plug it in when I get to the office.


Most items that use LI-ion batteries will not let them run down to zero(that's a killer)
when a laptop refuses to boot because of flat battery there's generally at least 10%(hidden) capacity still left.

In a ideal world where we wanted to get the max life out of a battery we'd probably use it between 20% and 80%
as the peak voltage at full charge isn't good for battery either.
Lappy manuals I've read recommend doing a full discharge and charge once a month as well.
Some good info here-
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... _batteries
 
Chrispy_
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:41 am

For most Lithium chemistries, once any specific cell in the battery drops to below 2.5V, the battery is effectively zero and classified as empty by both the safety circuitry and the software of the laptop. Whilst the battery still has another 20% power available, continuing to discharge Lithium cells further destroys them, such that they can never be recharged again.

In all conversations around lithium batteries, "zero capacity" is the safe cutoff voltage for the individual cells and there's no point worrying about the remaining "hidden" capacity in the battery pack because it'll destroy the battery if it is ever used.
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defaultluser
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:14 pm

Make a backup of your windows install.

Many laptops have proprietary drivers and applications required JUST TO BOOT. I've seen some that won't load a default Windows image without a BSOD. And they usually charge out-the-ass to ship you a working install CD.

The backup will make restoration easy, in the instance where your hard drive fails and you replace it. Or you go with an SSD?
 
whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:21 pm

defaultluser wrote:
Make a backup of your windows install.

Many laptops have proprietary drivers and applications required JUST TO BOOT. I've seen some that won't load a default Windows image without a BSOD. And they usually charge out-the-ass to ship you a working install CD.

The backup will make restoration easy, in the instance where your hard drive fails and you replace it. Or you go with an SSD?

Thanks for the advice, I wasn't aware of this as I was just going to install Manjaro Linux on it and replace the HDD with an SSD later on. This just a really silly silly thing for manufacturers to do, why in hell do they do this?
 
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:33 pm

FWIW, I use compressed air to clean the fans vents and all other vents periodically when the machine is turned off and unplugged.
 
Redocbew
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:37 pm

I remember doing that to my mothers laptop a while ago. It was so clogged the compressed air caused a plume of dust to be expelled from the opposite vent when I used it, then I said "oh look, it's running 20C cooler now."
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Topinio
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:14 am

whm1974 wrote:
Thanks for the advice, I wasn't aware of this as I was just going to install Manjaro Linux on it and replace the HDD with an SSD later on. This just a really silly silly thing for manufacturers to do, why in hell do they do this?

Could you not do it the other way around, buy the SSD then install Linux on to it fresh? That way, you keep the Windows disk/install nice and safe (also useful if you ever need it serviced, just pop the Windows disk back in). I'd still make a backup of the Windows install before doing this, but I'm a firm believer in the adage that you have one less backup than you think you have.
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Topinio
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:16 am

Redocbew wrote:
I remember doing that to my mothers laptop a while ago. It was so clogged the compressed air caused a plume of dust to be expelled from the opposite vent when I used it, then I said "oh look, it's running 20C cooler now."

I've just done the same with my MIL's desktop. WJW.
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:43 am

Topinio wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Thanks for the advice, I wasn't aware of this as I was just going to install Manjaro Linux on it and replace the HDD with an SSD later on. This just a really silly silly thing for manufacturers to do, why in hell do they do this?

Could you not do it the other way around, buy the SSD then install Linux on to it fresh? That way, you keep the Windows disk/install nice and safe (also useful if you ever need it serviced, just pop the Windows disk back in). I'd still make a backup of the Windows install before doing this, but I'm a firm believer in the adage that you have one less backup than you think you have.


That's a excellent bit of advice Topinio.

"This just a really silly silly thing for manufacturers to do, why in hell do they do this?"
One thing you have to remember about laptops-EVERY THING IS ABOUT COMPROMISE.
From screen size to CPU power etc etc.Quite often components are custom made for that one design
and general drivers won't work..............
 
whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:53 pm

Topinio wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Thanks for the advice, I wasn't aware of this as I was just going to install Manjaro Linux on it and replace the HDD with an SSD later on. This just a really silly silly thing for manufacturers to do, why in hell do they do this?

Could you not do it the other way around, buy the SSD then install Linux on to it fresh? That way, you keep the Windows disk/install nice and safe (also useful if you ever need it serviced, just pop the Windows disk back in). I'd still make a backup of the Windows install before doing this, but I'm a firm believer in the adage that you have one less backup than you think you have.

While this is good advice, I could really care less about keeping Windows around for anything. In fact the known Linux compatibility of Thinkpads is one of the reasons I ordered this notebook. But I will take your advice under consideration.
 
whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:18 pm

Well I got my Thinkpad T430 just few hours ago, and I'm typing this from a USB stick in Manjaro Linux. Everything seems to work and I swear this notebook looks and feels brand new.
 
whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:48 pm

OK due to the HDD this thing really feels slow so I'm going to have to order a SSD for this ASAP. And maybe some more memory as well.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:08 pm

Yeah, 5400RPM hard drives are slower than **** and tank any experience. Definitely replace it. ;D
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xgsound
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:19 pm

Three items to help:
1. Always put laptop on hard, flat surface for cooling, never on a soft (bed) surface that blocks vents. Heat kills HDDs and CPUs.
2. purchase a HDD SATA caddy (<$15) to temporarily install in the (one screw usually releases DVD) DVD slot. example: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005G ... UTF8&psc=1
3. Use HDD caddy to clone periodically, use multiple data drives, or play movie library.

The caddy just slides into the DVD slot with a HDD/ SSD in it. I clone to an SSD and use the HDD as a periodic backup.
 
whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:23 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Yeah, 5400RPM hard drives are slower than **** and tank any experience. Definitely replace it. ;D

Yeah a ~256GB SSD and another 4GB of memory should do the trick.
 
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:36 pm

Stick the HDD in an external enclosure and use it for backups.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
whm1974
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:04 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Stick the HDD in an external enclosure and use it for backups.

There's a thought. I already have two external HDDs for that however.
 
xgsound
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:33 am

For backups, clones, or new SSDs and any 2.5 inch SATA device the HDD caddy works at full SATA speed.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005G ... eport09-20 $15
That's even better that usb3. Most new laptops even allow "safe to remove" for the target drive. My 180 GB system disk (SSD to 5400 HDD) takes 22 minutes for a system clone using Aomei or Reflex.
 
HERETIC
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:23 am

xgsound wrote:
For backups, clones, or new SSDs and any 2.5 inch SATA device the HDD caddy works at full SATA speed.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005G ... eport09-20 $15
That's even better that usb3. Most new laptops even allow "safe to remove" for the target drive. My 180 GB system disk (SSD to 5400 HDD) takes 22 minutes for a system clone using Aomei or Reflex.


NICE-But where spinning rust is involved USB3 or SATA will be bottlenecked to around 100MBsec............
 
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:34 am

HERETIC wrote:
NICE-But where spinning rust is involved USB3 or SATA will be bottlenecked to around 100MBsec............

3.5" HDDs are quite a bit faster than that these days. Not sure about 2.5" HDDs (haven't benched one lately), but they're probably faster than that too, especially the higher density ones.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Glorious
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:56 am

I just checked and got ~105 on a 5400/2.5 HDD (ST5000LM000) over USB3. Disk is more than half full, so while I don't specifically know whether high/low LBA, I'm likely not getting best-in-show results...

And that's just a random 5TB SFF/Bus-powered external drive I picked off a shelf (x2 and RAID1'd of course), so I'd expect you could do at least 10MB/sec better if you were really looking.
 
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Re: My first Notebook, how to care for it.

Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:15 am

100 MB/sec is the best I can hope for when writing to the backup drive in its USB 3.0 sled, and that's only for really big files. For small stuff, 80 MB/sec is a more reasonable expectation.
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