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SecretSquirrel
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IP security camera recommedations?

Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:52 pm

I'm looking to recommendations for IP security cameras. I'm especially interested in thoughts on the various "cloud" services that come with the cameras. Normally I stay as far away from cloud based offerings as possible as I don't care for being tied to stuff I don't control. In the past, I've run a local ZoneMinder instance for the camera's I've had and it has worked well. However, in this case, its not really a practical option.

I'm in the process of buying a house, out of state. We should be closing in mid may, and it will be unoccupied, for the most part, until mid-August. While there will not really be anything in the house, I would like to be able to keep tabs on it remotely. I've not yet decided for sure to do this, as it won't be a minor outlay for the setup, plus it means I have to have internet access in place, which adds to the cost. I figure it will take at least seven cameras to cover all the windows and doors, from the inside. Putting them up outside is way more complex if I really want to keep from having blind spots. If I just want to cover the front entry and yard, as well as the back deck and side yard, I could minimally get away with four cameras, though you could get by them if you knew what you were doing.

Anyway, the camera I bought for the Squirrel Cam was a Reolink RLC-410. Reolink also sells full recorder+camera packages, which is also an option. Any hints, suggestions, or advice folks have would be appreciated.
 
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:52 pm

I have no personal experience with the cloud services provided by camera makers/marketers, although anecdotes I've read would give me pause. Personally I like BlueIris and I'm pretty comfortable with it. Others have good luck with an NVR from a reputable mfg like Dahua or Hikvision. IPCamTalk is a pretty good forum with lots of great advice, and also plenty of noise. There are a few serious personalities there that occasionally make a person seeking help want to scream. [Let me put it this way, fendermann makes jgreco sound like a sweetheart.] With BlueIris, it's easy to set whatever port number you'd like for http/https access. Set a static IP on your Win10 host and forward the port, and you have a live stream(s), with plenty of drill-down options. Downsides, this does require internet, $60 in software, some form of Win10, and an Intel iGPU for hardware acceleration, which you don't want to be without. BlueIris won't update unless you tell it to - Win10 you're on your own. ;) I haven't done the NVR thing, but a family member does it with Hik, and Dahua comes up frequently on IPCamTalk. The NVRs seem to do their own addressing of cameras, so they may not be LAN-configurable when plugged into an NVR. Accessing the NVR externally would be no different than BlueIris.

I have 4x Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z), BlueIris, and an i3-7300 with 8GB and 3TB. All 4 cams were purchased through a third-party Newegg seller last year. I don't participate in AliAnything.
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blitzy
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:38 am

When I last looked into this about a year ago I settled on HikVision as being best overall bang for buck / features / quality. Didn't end up getting anything though as I ended up moving house. Some quite cool gear for about 500 mark, starts getting expensive fast for top end features though. Pretty sure you can easily set these up with mobile app / push notifications to keep tabs on things.
 
xgsound
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:36 am

https://www.ipcamtalk.com/ (fendermann is very knowledgeable) is a great camera forum for more info. Insist on minimum 1080P.
I happened to check these out for a friend on March 26th. They are stand alone recording systems that need wired internet for remote. Internet can be tricky to set up.

Here is what I suggested to him.
Here are some links for your consideration. Extra cameras could give you some security later too !! All 1080P or better.
General info: These are "stand alone" units and they require a HD TV for local monitoring. Quality of apps for mobile viewing unknown, but my boy has had a Lorex DVR/BNC system for a few years. The fan was noisy and a $5 fan fixed that. Otherwise great and stored 2 weeks of monitoring at 1080P.
DVRs are older tech, come with 60 foot analog BNC cables
NVRs are more current, and use digital Ethernet cable.

Lorex DVRs thru Costco - Mail order
$599 BNC 16 channel, 16 camera $599 https://www.costco.com/Lorex-16CH-HD-DV ... 79250.html
Newest stuff deal LNK71082T
Lorex NVR thru Costco - Mail order (says 8ea 100 foot cables)
$699 8 channel, 8 4Kcamera $699 https://www.costco.com/Lorex-8-Channel- ... 41507.html

Less expensive at Sam's club.
Currently (?) in stock at my (Pittsburgh, PA) Sam's club. It's a DVR with BNC cables.
$399 DVR/BNC Samsung 8 channel, 8 camera
https://www.samsclub.com/sams/samsung-8 ... roduct:1:4

All hard to beat for the prices.
 
Usacomp2k3
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:34 am

That samsung one looks interesting, but why a BNC connector instead of RJ45? I guess because it is a direct-connect and not IP? Also, who needs 240fps on a security camera. That'd fill up the hard-drive real fast. The 15fps on the Lorex makes much more sense. I guess you can always dial it back in the settings.
blitzy wrote:
When I last looked into this about a year ago I settled on HikVision as being best overall bang for buck / features / quality. Didn't end up getting anything though as I ended up moving house. Some quite cool gear for about 500 mark, starts getting expensive fast for top end features though. Pretty sure you can easily set these up with mobile app / push notifications to keep tabs on things.

That's what we have at work now. They installed them earlier this spring. So far seems so good; I don't know what software they are running but both IT & HSE are happy.
 
Chrispy_
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:46 am

Security cameras are static mounted usually so compression is exceptionally high, even at high framerate.

The high-framerate stuff is usually useful for catching shoplifters who try to get away with sleight of hand that low-fps solutions don't pick up. To elaborate, it's about conviction rates. A shopkeeper may manage to detain a shoplifter thanks to the camera, but it's not necessarily enough evidence to convict the shoplifter, and the cops weren't witnesses to the crime. I've seen enough crime shows to know that a large number of shoplifting incidents involving the cops result in no arrest, based on inadequate security footage and nothing other than an employee's word against the accused's.

The other thing about high-framerate cameras is that they are also configurable so that you can change framerate and resolution "on event" so that they capture 1080p240 when triggered by motion detectors and revert to 720p15 otherwise.
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:04 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
The other thing about high-framerate cameras is that they are also configurable so that you can change framerate and resolution "on event" so that they capture 1080p240 when triggered by motion detectors and revert to 720p15 otherwise.

That is exactly what I'd want. Do you know what software can handle that? I'd be fine with even 1 fps for very small video sizes but then prefer 60fps for the motion side of things. Or maybe I don't understand the compression well enough; the size difference between 1 & 15fps for static content may be close to 0.
 
Chrispy_
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:21 am

No, sorry - I don't. It's not my field of expertise.

I know of these systems through talking to visiting contractors, or when I'm contracted out myself, but haven't implemented any myself.
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Waco
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:17 am

I run iSpy locally on my HTPC. I tried a few others and eventually settled on it even though the interface is pretty garbage. It lets you set variable triggers based on area on image, variable framerate/quality for recording based on triggers, etc. It's probably not ideal for you though since it's Windows based, which typically means Windows will reboot without prompting and the software won't start as a service (only on user login).

I'd be wary of many IP cams though - the Wansview cameras I bought work just fine once configured as a dumb IP camera, but they came with factory malware for both CIFs and FTP shares (it would auto-download crap to the share as soon as you set up the internal recording features).

Once I disabled any and all access to them except for the IP video stream things are just peachy. :)
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:27 am

I'm actually looking to get a Synology within the next few months and will probably use their built-in NVR.
 
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:50 pm

Has anyone used Ubiquiti's camera offerings before? I have an Edgerouter and I'm pretty sold on the brand, but I didn't know until last week that they offered video cameras. Looking to upgrade from a Piper camera.
 
xgsound
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:48 pm

The BNC connector is for analog video usually over a (1 power, 1 signal) dual cable as opposed to RJ45 which is digital. The 240 FPS is total max capability for all cameras at the DVR. 8 Cameras X 30 FPS = 240 FPS. Less FPS gives more time on the same size HDD.
Actually anything down to 15 FPS is very useful for ID purposes if 1080P or above is used.
 
olegtf
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:51 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
I'm looking to recommendations for IP security cameras. I'm especially interested in thoughts on the various "cloud" services that come with the cameras. Normally I stay as far away from cloud based offerings as possible as I don't care for being tied to stuff I don't control. In the past, I've run a local ZoneMinder instance for the camera's I've had and it has worked well. However, in this case, its not really a practical option....

well, besides going into particular models you need to look at few things:
- Dual board unit. (plus IR LED board)
- SONY IMX-xxx sensor.
- Must support 3 streams. Dual stream cameras have compatibility issues with the browsers and phones.
- 1080P native resolution at the very least (not digitally blown up to meet the specs and raise the price.)
- P2P
- ONVIF (check the version)
- FTP function (not all firmware version have it)
- Make sure Firmware source is available and it is not China only version.
- Audio in and out optional, most jurisdictions forbid audio recordings.
- WiFi - not practical - very low quality modules.
- POE - internal will give you grief. Use external splitter and feed separately into the camera.
- IR LED board will burn out withing 12-15 months regardless of use, get enough replacement boards.
- Lens size you will need to decide for each particular camera separately.
- Location must be reachable to remove spider web, they love IR. (I have to remove spider web sometimes twice a day)- Create problems with false alarms during the night.
What else... UPS system for the cameras is the must. Don't use free cloud services, you will regret it. Make sure you waterproof housing after purchase, regardless of their claims and stay away from plastic housings - they fail under UV from the Sun very fast. During installation try to avoid pointing cameras towards East or West directly. Low Sun will trip AGC and you'll get white screen. One more thing you can not turn off IR LEDs thus cameras can not be used from inside the building through the glass, without modifying the board, ( to avoid reflection in the glass) and use of external IR illuminator.
Oh I think its about it from the top of my head..
 
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:00 am

I have some limited experience with Axis cameras. Good quality on the camera side albeit low FPS by default. Compression is remarkably good. Supports multicasting for monitoring from multiple locations and ease of recording. Everything can be done locally, ie no cloud. In fact, the backend application for routing and storage is expected to run in a Windows 2012 server VM. Big down side is that I was never involved in pricing which probably also means it isn't economical for home use.


As for the use-case for OP, I'd recommend supplementing any installed security cameras with decoys. Basically grab a couple of old security cameras, place them on tripods, run some cables to them and leave in areas where people who try to look in will see them but not necessarily obvious from the outside. Neat thing is that many pro companies that sell cameras will also sell various decoy boxes too. Deterrents are remarkably effective.
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: IP security camera recommedations?

Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:26 pm

I picked up one of the Reolink RLC-410’s. I need to find my POE injector so I can try it out. Cart before the horse.

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