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Demira
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Laptop turns off suddenly

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:56 pm

ACER Aspire 1.3GHz 800 MHz FSB, 3GB memory. Windows 7 64 bit.

Laptop use history: Purchased in Jan 2010 but used for only a few days until April 2017. Then used continuously for approx 2 hours a day (Internet browsing, writing documents, spreadsheets) from April 2017 to date. Over last 6 months: No new installations, no new drivers, only Windows Updates, Adobe Acrobat updates and browser updates. The age of this laptop, based on the use is quite low. I would expect it to run, without problems, for at least 2 more years.

Timeline of events:

1. For a few weeks leading up to the main problem, there was a lot of heat coming out of the charging port, which was very unusual (laptop used for max 2 hours a day). This problem started during the heat wave in the UK. There was no other indication at all that anything was wrong with the laptop. A few times I spotted a handful of tiny insects walking across the screen when the laptop was on. I suspected this might be due to the recent very hot weather. Laptop was removed from the room and kept in an airtight bag, while the room was sprayed with bug spray to get rid of any pests. It is not known whether any bugs (smaller than a mm in size) got inside the laptop and caused any damage. No more bugs have been seen recently.

2. Suddenly 1.5 weeks ago when I went to switch the laptop on, nothing happened. I pressed the power switch and literally nothing happened - no noise, no attempt to power on at all. The laptop had worked fine the previous day and the battery was partially charged when it was switched off. Nonetheless I put it on the charger. The battery charger light on the laptop came on, but still nothing happened when I pressed the power button.

3. I removed the battery and connected the laptop to the mains power. It switched on, suggesting the problem was with the battery. I tried backing up some of my work. However, when I went to copy and paste, specifically when performing the "paste" operation, I immediately got an error message saying "windows Explorer is not working" and then got a message that windows Explorer was restarting. A few minutes later the laptop suddenly switched off.

4. I tried switching it on a few times. Each time one of the following occurred:
- Laptop switched on, OS runs, BUT then within 2 mins the laptop suddenly switches off (before I have done anything on laptop).
- Laptop powers on, BUT before OS is running it switches off again.
- Laptop switches on, OS runs, stays on, as soon as I try to "paste" (as part of copy and paste) I get the error message saying "windows Explorer is not working" and then another message that windows Explorer was restarting. Within a few minutes of this, the laptop suddenly switches off.
- Laptop powers on, detects that it did not shutdown properly and asks me whether I want to run startup repair. The laptop switches off while trying to run repair and I cannot determine if repair identifies any issue.
- Laptop powers on, I select option to run in safe mode. Sometimes laptop switches off after safe mode selected but before anything happens. A couple of times it did run OS in safe mode but then switched off again within a few mins.

5. Re-inserted battery. Switched on. Although now switches on with battery, the above problem still persists i.e. laptop switches off suddenly or it switches off when a "paste" is attempted (either way it switches off within a few mins of starting).

6. Opened up back of laptop. Specifically I opened up the hard disc compartment and the memory compartment. I cannot view the fan via any of these compartments but I am reluctant to completely dismember the laptop to view the fan since I am not confident I will be able to definitely put it back together afterwards. No visible dirt or dust in hard disc or memory compartments. Nonetheless cleaned with compressed air. Also, checked charging port and it does not appear to be blocked. Nonetheless blew compressed air into it just in case. No audible or visible loose metal inside. Do not appear to be any exposed metal on wires. Ruled out electric short. Put it back together and switched on - problem persists.

7. When it was on I tried to perform a system restore - restore it to whatever state it was in 1 week prior to the problem. A windows update was automatically applied a week prior to the issue. A few times it switched off in the middle of attempting a system restore. Apparently a system restore was eventually completed BUT this did NOT resolve the issue.

8. Removed battery again. Left laptop off but connected to mains power for 7-8 mins. Then switched it on. It stayed on for 25 mins before switching off - longer than prior attempts. Attempting copy and paste produced same error about windows Explorer but laptop did not switch off soon after. I used it to check email but then it switched off suddenly. When I tried to repeat this scenario - i.e. left it connected to mains for 10 mins before powering up, it did NOT stay on for 25 mins BUT switched off within 5 mins when I tried to browse internet.

Summary:
- There does not appear to be a problem with the battery as the problem persists when the battery is removed and the laptop is connected to the mains.
- The problem does not appear to be caused by dirt / dust as the problem persisted after a clean was performed using compressed air HOWEVER I cannot rule out the fan being clogged with dust.
- The problem does not appear to be caused by an electric short as loose metal cannot be heard or seen inside the laptop and metal does not appear to be exposed on any of the wires.
- Cannot dismiss hardware problem as many times it switches off before OS even running and problem persists in safe mode and after a system restore was completed. Based on all this, I think it's a hardware problem and have some ideas:

Is there a problem with the power supply unit? This is my first guess. But I have no means of testing this and probably do not have the capability to test this. Also, reluctant to test this due to safety issues.

Is there a problem with the RAM?

A problem with the fan? But the laptop does not seem to be heating up now.

Is there a problem with the charging port or charging pin? However, if this was the case, when the battery is inserted, surely I would get told to charge the battery because it is low? Also, the light for charging wouldn't be on (presumably).

Did the insects eat through something that is critical but not (obviously) visible?

Lastly, and I am really hoping this is not the case, is it a virus of some sort? Are there Viruses that can cause the computer to not power up at all and then to switch off immediately after switching on?

Anything else?

I would appreciate your thoughts, please.
Last edited by Demira on Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:14 pm

The long period of non-use means the battery is almost certainly worthless. Lithium-ion cells discharge slowly in storage, and degrade if they are left uncharged for extended periods of time. But this does not explain the other issues.

The other issues you describe point to some other problem with the hardware, e.g. bad power supply, overheating, bad RAM, etc.. Your guess that the power supply could be the culprit seems plausible to me, but by no means definitive.
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meerkt
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:49 pm

I don't know about the hardware issue, but to get to your data...

Try to copy it using a USB-bootable OS (like an Ubuntu LiveCD). But I'm guessing it won't do that much better than Windows before it turns off.

Alternatively, just connect the HDD to another computer. Could also be a desktop computer.
 
demolition
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:02 am

My first thought when something like this happens is overheating. Yes, it may not feel like the laptop is overheating, but remember that if it feels hot on the outside that means that it is actually able to dissipate the heat. When a fan is clogged, the heat just builds up inside and the CPU can very quickly overheat and the system will shut itself off to protect it.

If it takes a little while to happen from cold before it turns off and then quickly if you power it back on, that also indicates it is an overheating problem. If the fan and cooling fins are clear of dirt, it could also be dried up thermal paste between the cooler and CPU.

Can you hear the cooling fan rotating? If the system senses an over temperature condition, the fan should be spinning at 100% which is usually quite audible.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:48 am

demolition wrote:
My first thought when something like this happens is overheating. Yes, it may not feel like the laptop is overheating, but remember that if it feels hot on the outside that means that it is actually able to dissipate the heat. When a fan is clogged, the heat just builds up inside and the CPU can very quickly overheat and the system will shut itself off to protect it.

If it takes a little while to happen from cold before it turns off and then quickly if you power it back on, that also indicates it is an overheating problem. If the fan and cooling fins are clear of dirt, it could also be dried up thermal paste between the cooler and CPU.

Can you hear the cooling fan rotating? If the system senses an over temperature condition, the fan should be spinning at 100% which is usually quite audible.

What this guy said. Some laptops have a BIOS 'hook' to warn you if the fan isn't operating (Dells will usually pause at boot to warn you about it) but I wouldn't count on an Acer unit being that thorough.

Given how long it was in storage, the grease in the fan motor bearing could have dried out even though it wasn't in regular use.
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Yan
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:15 am

I'd definitely suspect overheating. Because your computer constantly has to shut itself off, the file system is corrupted, which could explain some of the other problems.

In Control Panel, Power Management, Advanced Settings, there's a setting for "Maximum processor state". Try setting it to 50%, for example. Your processor will be less active, which should help with the heat. Does your computer stay on longer with this setting?

If you manage to get your computer to stay on long enough, run chkdsk c: /f /v /x (you'll have to reboot) and sfc /scannow.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:47 am

As others have said, the battery is probably done. But the machine should still run while connected to AC power. As you've discovered, that may require removing the battery so the machine isn't trying to "run off the battery while it's charging"

I think it's multiple problems, but I'd agree that overheating might be the root problem. You can also try setting the laptop on top of a box fan (not over the center hub where there's no airflow) to maximize your odds of getting into the "Maximum Processor State" adjustments that Yan suggested.

Do you have a desktop PC or a SATA-to-USB adapter that you can use to remove the hdd and back up the files you need? Getting the hdd out of the problematic machine it's in gives you the best odds at backing up your data. Depending on what system files are corrupted, it may be best to simply wipe the drive and reinstall windows once you get the overheating/power problems resolved enough that the machine will at least stay alive long enough to complete a reformat.

I think it's pretty apparent that little/no money should be spent in this endeavor, since the machine just isn't worth it.
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:05 am

I have a Dell laptop that does the same thing. I had loaned it to a friend and I am fairly certain he cleaned the fan with an auto shop air compressor (probably 90 psi). The fan spins freely by hand, but when powered up it just sits and quivers. I plan to try and clean the brush carbon from between the commutator segments, but it will probably need a new fan. I have heard that even canned air can also cause this type of small fan failure.
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:50 am

farmpuma wrote:
I have a Dell laptop that does the same thing. I had loaned it to a friend and I am fairly certain he cleaned the fan with an auto shop air compressor (probably 90 psi). The fan spins freely by hand, but when powered up it just sits and quivers. I plan to try and clean the brush carbon from between the commutator segments, but it will probably need a new fan. I have heard that even canned air can also cause this type of small fan failure.

Every computer fan I have ever seen has used a brushless DC motor (electronic commutation). Short of physically snapping off fan blades (which is a definite risk!), I'm a little puzzled as to how high pressure air could've damaged it. I suppose it is possible that some internal fan component has been dislodged.
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demolition
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:49 am

just brew it! wrote:
Short of physically snapping off fan blades (which is a definite risk!), I'm a little puzzled as to how high pressure air could've damaged it.

Perhaps the air pressure could push some dust to become lodged inside the bearing?
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:01 am

demolition wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Short of physically snapping off fan blades (which is a definite risk!), I'm a little puzzled as to how high pressure air could've damaged it.

Perhaps the air pressure could push some dust to become lodged inside the bearing?

He said it spins freely by hand, so that's not it.
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:11 am

Do brushless motors act as generators when the output shaft (i.e. the fan) is spun externally?
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:30 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Do brushless motors act as generators when the output shaft (i.e. the fan) is spun externally?

Interesting thought. Yes, I believe a DC computer fan motor would, since the rotor uses permanent magnets. Spin it fast enough, and it is certainly plausible that you could shove enough current the wrong way through the drive circuitry to cause damage. I think we have a winner here. If this is what happened, hopefully the damage is limited to the fan itself and didn't take out anything on the motherboard.
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:58 am

just brew it! wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Do brushless motors act as generators when the output shaft (i.e. the fan) is spun externally?

Interesting thought. Yes, I believe a DC computer fan motor would, since the rotor uses permanent magnets. Spin it fast enough, and it is certainly plausible that you could shove enough current the wrong way through the drive circuitry to cause damage. I think we have a winner here. If this is what happened, hopefully the damage is limited to the fan itself and didn't take out anything on the motherboard.

I've seen this before and it is possible. That's why it is recommended to hold the fan blades in place while using compressed air when cleaning a laptop...

@Demira: While I also agree that the battery is dead by now, there are other problems. Try using HWMonitor to check on the temperatures of your laptop, if your CPU shoots off to 90C in a short span of time then it is definitively overheating, which could translate into something being wrong with the fans... As an alternate trick, you could run your PC in the fridge for a bit just to check if temps normalize (w/ HWMonitor) and if it works fine (I wouldn't recommend running it there for a long period of time, with moisture creeping into the laptop, it's just to see if the temps are killing your PC).

Additionally there could be a problem with the power management components in your laptop - I recently had to fix an HP EliteBook Workstation with a similar problem (would randomly turn off with no reason whatsoever) through a repair shop as I have no soldering skills, which ended up costing me $300. Then I looked online, and this was the exact same price of the laptop nowadays... so if you clear the overheating and the battery problems, and it is still doing that, sadly I would recommend getting a new computer
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:43 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Do brushless motors act as generators when the output shaft (i.e. the fan) is spun externally?

Interesting thought. Yes, I believe a DC computer fan motor would, since the rotor uses permanent magnets. Spin it fast enough, and it is certainly plausible that you could shove enough current the wrong way through the drive circuitry to cause damage. I think we have a winner here. If this is what happened, hopefully the damage is limited to the fan itself and didn't take out anything on the motherboard.

AFAICT the circuitry is equally prone to dying without any outside help, possibly because these mini fans live such a hard life. The Dell E6430 I'm using right now was a discard at work because it had what appeared to be a fan failure and was past official EOL. The entire interior was pretty clean and the fan spun freely, but would not self-motivate. I took a gamble that $9 on eBay would fix it, and ordered a pulled replacement HSF. Came right back to life. But this unit does have an i7-3720QM and a 5200M dGPU that runs in parallel with the iGPU for multimonitor, so it can pour out serious heat when provoked.
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Demira
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:14 pm

@just brew it!
just brew it! wrote:
The long period of non-use means the battery is almost certainly worthless. Lithium-ion cells discharge slowly in storage, and degrade if they are left uncharged for extended periods of time.

The other issues you describe point to some other problem with the hardware, e.g. bad power supply, overheating, bad RAM, etc.. Your guess that the power supply could be the culprit seems plausible to me, but by no means definitive.


Thank you for replying. Thanks for the info on the battery, which I will defn bare in mind for the future. To clarify on the laptop use - it wasn't completely unused for an extended period i.e. it was used for a a couple of months in 2010, then used for a couple of weeks in 2011, then used for up to 10 days every year until 2017 (I don't know if that would cause the battery to degrade as well?). There was no indication that anything was wrong with the battery over the past year. However, since the issues persist when connected to mains, as you have mentioned too, there is defn another problem. To be honest, at this stage I don't mind if the laptop only works when connected to mains.
Last edited by Demira on Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:22 pm

@meerkt
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I don't know about the hardware issue, but to get to your data...

Try to copy it using a USB-bootable OS (like an Ubuntu LiveCD). But I'm guessing it won't do that much better than Windows before it turns off.

Alternatively, just connect the HDD to another computer. Could also be a desktop computer.


Thank you for replying. I will try what you suggest, hopefully over the weekend. If I can't get it working then I do need my data. At the moment I literally have access to no other computers - quite literally - so will take some planning but hopefully I can get the data off it.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:29 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Do brushless motors act as generators when the output shaft (i.e. the fan) is spun externally?
Interesting thought. Yes, I believe a DC computer fan motor would, since the rotor uses permanent magnets. Spin it fast enough, and it is certainly plausible that you could shove enough current the wrong way through the drive circuitry to cause damage. I think we have a winner here. If this is what happened, hopefully the damage is limited to the fan itself and didn't take out anything on the motherboard.

As a WWII info buff I was reminded of the double duty performed by electric motors in submarines of the era, as they played both roles depending on what was spinning the rotor.
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:37 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
As a WWII info buff I was reminded of the double duty performed by electric motors in submarines of the era, as they played both roles depending on what was spinning the rotor.

I've also read that some HDDs use the spindle motor in generator mode to harvest kinetic energy from the spinning platters, to power the head unload cycle in the event of a power loss.
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Demira
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:46 pm

@demolition
demolition wrote:
My first thought when something like this happens is overheating. Yes, it may not feel like the laptop is overheating, but remember that if it feels hot on the outside that means that it is actually able to dissipate the heat. When a fan is clogged, the heat just builds up inside and the CPU can very quickly overheat and the system will shut itself off to protect it.

If it takes a little while to happen from cold before it turns off and then quickly if you power it back on, that also indicates it is an overheating problem. If the fan and cooling fins are clear of dirt, it could also be dried up thermal paste between the cooler and CPU.

Can you hear the cooling fan rotating? If the system senses an over temperature condition, the fan should be spinning at 100% which is usually quite audible.


Thank you for replying. Yes, I agree, I think it may be a overheating problem. Your reasoning makes sense - it may not be able to dissipate the heat hence shutting down. You are also correct that from cold it usually takes a while before shutting down but then shuts down quickly when powered back on - this was true last week when I was trying to figure out what was going on. I am reluctant to keep switching it on now since I have no idea what damage is occurring every time it shuts down like that.

To be honest, I am not sure if I can give a reliable answer on whether I can hear the fan rotating. I did not pay attention to the noise made by the laptop prior to all this occurring (it probably became background noise at some point) so I don't know how different it is now. I have switched it on once to listen to the noise and there is defn a whirling sound but like I said I don't know if that's different to the usual.

But based on your reply I do suspect the fan is clogged and / or there is another issue with the fan causing overheating. I tried to open up the laptop to check the fan: basically until this happened, I had NEVER opened up a computer before, opening up the hard disc and memory compartments was fine, but opening up the whole thing was kind of freaking me out. I might just call a computer repair person to open it up and check the fan for me. I'm not happy about this unexpected cost.
Last edited by Demira on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:01 pm

@ludi
Thank you for replying.

ludi wrote:
demolition wrote:
When a fan is clogged, the heat just builds up inside and the CPU can very quickly overheat and the system will shut itself off to protect it.

What this guy said. Some laptops have a BIOS 'hook' to warn you if the fan isn't operating (Dells will usually pause at boot to warn you about it) but I wouldn't count on an Acer unit being that thorough.

Yep, I'm not getting any warning from my acer. And yes, I am going to focus on overheating first.

ludi wrote:
Given how long it was in storage, the grease in the fan motor bearing could have dried out even though it wasn't in regular use.

That's useful to know. It wasn't completely unused for 6 years - it was used for 5-10 days each year from 2012-2017 but yes, that's still a long period of it just sitting there. So I'm going to get the fan thoroughly checked out.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:11 pm

@Yan
Thank you for replying.

Yan wrote:
I'd definitely suspect overheating. Because your computer constantly has to shut itself off, the file system is corrupted, which could explain some of the other problems.


Yep, overheating is at the top of my list of suspects now! The issue with the windows Explorer error when I tried to paste and it shutting down straight after - all this happened the first time I managed to switch it on i.e. it hadn't shutdown suddenly lots of times before getting this error. So I'm really really really hoping the file system is fine.

That said, now that you've informed me of this, I am absolutely not switching it on lots of times until I can get it fixed.

Yan wrote:
In Control Panel, Power Management, Advanced Settings, there's a setting for "Maximum processor state". Try setting it to 50%, for example. Your processor will be less active, which should help with the heat. Does your computer stay on longer with this setting?
If you manage to get your computer to stay on long enough, run chkdsk c: /f /v /x (you'll have to reboot) and sfc /scannow.


I am going to try this - either on Friday or the weekend.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:27 pm

@DPete27

Thank you for replying.

DPete27 wrote:
As others have said, the battery is probably done. But the machine should still run while connected to AC power.

I think it's multiple problems, but I'd agree that overheating might be the root problem. You can also try setting the laptop on top of a box fan to maximize your odds of getting into the "Maximum Processor State" adjustments that Yan suggested.


Going to focus on overheating first. If it works while connected to mains that's fine with me. Yep, I will try Yan's suggestion on Friday / weekend. If it stays on longer while processing burden is reduced and that allows me to back up some data that would be fantastic.

DPete27 wrote:
Do you have a desktop PC or a SATA-to-USB adapter that you can use to remove the hdd and back up the files you need? Getting the hdd out of the problematic machine it's in gives you the best odds at backing up your data. I think it's pretty apparent that little/no money should be spent in this endeavor, since the machine just isn't worth it.


At the moment I have access to no other computers. I do not have a SATA-to-USB adapter. But I may be able to make some arrangements over the next week. I'm probably going to spend a bit, hopefully not a lot, for a computer repair person to check the fan out.
Last edited by Demira on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:28 pm

In my experience, NTFS is quite good at repairing itself. I wouldn't be too worried about finding irreparable errors (but you should still check, of course).
 
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:51 pm

You can search laptop disassembly videos on youtube. They're all the same.
Undo all the screws on the bottom, then start prying between the interface of the top and bottom halves of the chassis (I recommend fingernails or a plastic knife to prevent marring the seam).
Some of the older laptop models used the two bottom screws in the corners under the screen to secure the screen hinges to the chassis. If your screen gets floppy when you undo these screws, put them back in, open the screen so its at a 90 degree angle, then set the laptop on its side to take out the two hinge screws and pry open the chassis.

The two halves are held in place via clips around the perimeter. I've never actually measured the spacing, but I'd estimate there's a clip every 2-3". It sounds awful when the clips let go, but you'll be fine (don't shove anything directly into a clip obviously).

Depending on the laptop, the keyboard will either come out separately of the top half of the chassis (two small clips to depress at the top of the keyboard to release it) or it will be integral to the top half of the chassis (with the trackpad). The keyboard and trackpad are connected to the motherboard with a ribbon cable. At the connection to the motherboard there's a tiny plastic hinged "flap" on the opposite side of the terminal from where the ribbon cable comes in. Lift the flap with your fingernail to release the ribbon cable from the terminal.

Even if you break the entire computer trying to take it apart, your data will be fine on the hard drive...as long as you don't drop it on the floor.
Last edited by DPete27 on Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Demira
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:54 pm

@Yan @DPete27 @Ludi @Demolition @qmacpoint

Tried a few of your suggestions.

Switched on laptop from cold. Set max processor state to 50%.
Ran chkdsk (given that my laptop could switch off any minute I didn't want to risk running anything more time consuming just yet). It identified that there are indeed some corrupt files. However before I could read the scan results properly, the laptop switched off (it managed to stay on for 14 mins). I left it to cool down. I now know what a box fan is but do not have one.

qmacpoint wrote:
Try using HWMonitor to check on the temperatures of your laptop, if your CPU shoots off to 90C in a short span of time then it is definitively overheating, which could translate into something being wrong with the fans...


Later I ran hwmonitor. According to the results, the temp does not appear to be high:
- for the Intel processor, the temperatures for the 2 cores is 24 degrees Celsius (for all: value, min, max).
- There is another temperature specified for Toshiba - which is 30 degrees Celsius.
The temperatures do not seem to be high - at least I don't think they are.
If the temperatures in the results are not high, then assuming the hwmonitor programme is working correctly and assuming the temperatures are being sensed correctly, then we can assume the actual temperatures are not high.

The laptop switched off within 5 mins before I could do anything else.

Based on the above, I'm now guessing that it is not a temperature overheating problem and that there is nothing wrong with the fan. Please tell me if my conclusion is wrong. If the overheating is eliminated, then do any of the results above, or anything else I have previously mentioned, indicate why it keeps switching off? Did the extreme heat wave in some way cause permanent damage? I.e. could the power supply unit be damaged due to an extreme and prolonged head wave?
Last edited by Demira on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
DPete27
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:58 pm

24C is 75F. Your CPU will always be warmer than room temp, even when idle, so I wouldn't trust the temp very much.
Also, there are other chips on the motherboard that, when overheating, could cause a computer to shut down. Back in the day I had a Northbridge (or was it Southbridge..can't remember which) heatsink come loose (not off) and had similar symptoms. I don't think there was any way to monitor the temp of that chip in software, but if you touched the back of the mobo behind the chip, you knew. It's this experience that prompted me to suggest setting the PC on a box fan. Not to insist that temps are still your problem, even after your recent discoveries, but overwhelming the machine with external cooling is best case scenario to prevent thermal problems.

When the system stays on longer while cold, but shuts down faster while hot, especially in such a repeatable manner....temperature. If temps weren't a problem, you could go through your crash->restart routine indefinitely and the behavior should be either be consistent (exactly x time before crash) or completely sporadic (a specific program accessing a bad hdd or RAM sector).
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
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Demira
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:15 pm

@DPETE27
DPete27 wrote:
You can search laptop disassembly videos on youtube... Even if you break the entire computer trying to take it apart, your data will be fine on the hard drive...as long as you don't drop it on the floor.


Thank you for the encouragement. Logically I know that the data would be fine and I did check you tube videos prior to attempting the dismantle but still freaked out. Based on the results of running hwmonitor I no longer think it's an overheating problem...see my post above.
Last edited by Demira on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Demira
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:26 pm

DPete27 wrote:
...there are other chips on the motherboard that, when overheating, could cause a computer to shut down. Back in the day I had a Northbridge heatsink come loose (not off) and had similar symptoms. I don't think there was any way to monitor the temp of that chip in software, but if you touched the back of the mobo behind the chip, you knew. It's this experience that prompted me to suggest setting the PC on a box fan. Not to insist that temps are still your problem, even after your recent discoveries, but overwhelming the machine with external cooling is best case scenario to prevent thermal problems.

When the system stays on longer while cold, but shuts down faster while hot, especially in such a repeatable manner....temperature. If temps weren't a problem, you could go through your crash->restart routine indefinitely and the behavior should be either be consistent (exactly x time before crash) or completely sporadic (a specific program accessing a bad hdd or RAM sector).


OK, noted. Thank you for that reasoning. Overheating is back on the list of culprits. In absence of a box fan, if I keep the laptop in an air conditioned room (down to 16 degrees Celsius), right next to the air conditioner, keep the laptop on a table and prop up the 4 corners of the laptop to allow colder air to flow freely under the laptop, do you think that would be sufficient for external cooling? I could also try putting it in the fridge but worried about moisture so wanted an alternative.
Last edited by Demira on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Yan
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Re: Laptop turns off suddenly

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:55 pm

Demira wrote:
owever before I could read the scan results properly, the laptop switched off (it managed to stay on for 14 mins).

Is 14 minutes longer than previously before it turned off? Put the setting as low as necessary, although anything below 10% will probably make your computer unusable.

About an hour later, switched it on again. Ran hwmonitor. According to the results, the temp does not appear to be high:
- for the Intel processor, the temperatures for the 2 cores is 24 degrees Celsius (for all: value, min, max).

That's unrealistically low; I wouldn't expect anything below 40° C for an idle computer. Something's wrong. You could try another programme; I like CoreTemp.

Based on the above, I'm now guessing that it is not a temperature overheating problem and that there is nothing wrong with the fan. Please tell me if my conclusion is wrong.

Did your computer stay on longer when you changed the maximum processor state to 50%? If so, I'd still suspect overheating.

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