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Martin the Kiteboy
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New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:59 pm

Gentlemen,

I need some help making a platform upgrade selection. The gamer in me is leaning Intel, the productive and rational side is leaning AMD. Hoping for some insight to sway me one way or the other. I was all-in for X299 and the 9920X until I found the X399M board from ASRock.

Background
I am at the stage where I want to upgrade my primary box, used for gaming, occasional photo/video editing, and distributed computing. It is not running any mission critical work, but I am generally a fan of stability over speed. The models I run for distributed computing are almost always long-term climate models with ~1 week 24/7 completion times, and these almost always complete without error on my current rig.

While I could run two different boxes, I am not going to.

Call me crazy, but I am not attracted to the 2700X or 9900K. Mostly because there as basically no mATX or ITX boards with good options for water-cooling the VRM, and I want more threads. However, I do find the idea of a 5+ GHz all-core overclock on the 9900K compelling, just not as compelling as a ~4.7GHz clock on the 50% more core 9920X.

I am currently sporting a Maximus VI Impact ITX board and 4770k running at 4.4GHz. It is beginning to show its age. The chip is not delidded, and the temps are such that I generally only run 2-4 threads for distributed computing. These threads are running constantly in the background. I would like to be able to run more threads, and get some more speed for gaming if possible.

I game exclusively at 4k, and will likely step up from my GTX 1080 to the RTX 2080, but I am still debating that upgrade. In any case, this is not aimed to be a 144 FPS twitch gaming box as I generally play single-player shooters and RPGs. Will eventually get into VR I think, but it is not in my current set of requirements for this box. Would be nice to support the 90Hz future though.

My current rig is stuffed inside a heavily modified case with a water-cooling loop. I am not giving up the case, so I need an ITX motherboard, but I can use a very select few micro-ATX boards.

Goals / Requirements:
In the order from most to least important:
1) Be better or no worse for 4k gaming than my 4770k pegged at 4.4GHz 24/7.
2) Platform fits inside my case, so ITX or some micro ATX boards.
3) Be able to run at least 10 threads for distributed computing without throttling (Non-AVX)
4) Be better or no worse for 90Hz VR gaming than my 4770k pegged at 4.4GHz 24/7.

The Choices

The reason I am asking for some insight is that the two most palatable options are priced nearly identically (Intel ~$100 more expensive):
Threadripper 2950X (16c / 32t)
ASRock X399M micro ATX (With 3x M.2 SSD slots, all to CPU)
32GB DDR4 (4x8GB) DDR4 3200 14-14-14-32

Intel Skylake-X i9-9920X (12c / 32t)
ASRock X299E-ITX (With 3x M.2 SSD slots, 2 directly to CPU, 1 to Chipset)
32GB DDR4 (4x8GB) DDR4 3200 14-14-14-32

Other Considerations:
I would be running the AMD rig on Precision Boost Overdrive. My current understanding is that this is probably the best automatic overlocking available today. If I need dedicated gaming power for high FPS, I pause the distributed computing work and PBO should drive the 2950X to ~4.4GHz for the lightly threaded game. If I have no processes running (Rare, but it happens) then the 2950X should automatically downclock and sip power, as it were.

On the Intel rig, I would plan to overclock to ~4.7GHz across all 12 cores. My current understanding is that this is a 24/7 scheme and that Cool ‘n Quiet is disabled. Probably entirely false assumption, let me know.

The power draw on these workstation chips is considerable, so I am going to be using a full-cover monoblock to cool the CPU and VRM.

Questions and Thoughts:
The Intel rig should clock higher and provide more punch for gaming, which I am attracted to for the 90Hz VR future. And TR’s own testing will usually show the Intel platforms outperforming the AMD platforms in the “time beyond x” charts. This comes as no surprise to anyone, just stating the obvious.

However, the AMD rig will handily trounce the Intel rig for the distributed computing side of things. I expect to be able to run 33% more instances which will cannot be made up in clockspeed, since I expect the 2950X to be running at about 4.2GHz at full bore with the 9920X running around 4.7GHz, and 10% clockspeed with a smidgen IPC advantage I doubt will make up the core count deficit.

I prefer the ITX form factor on the Intel option. I know that I can fit it into to my current case with no serious effort. The AMD option should work, but it will be harder to route the cables and I may need to further modify the case. Not a lot of room left in there.

I prefer the rear IO on the AMD board. More USB for the win.

I like the idea of ECC, and I can only get that with AMD. However, the memory speed disadvantage going to ECC and the general uncertainty around ECC bother me. If there were a simple way to check ECC in Windows that would be nice, but that appears to be not the case. Seems like a bad tradeoff for going to something which will be slower and may provide more stability, but there is no way to easily verify.

Knowing Intel and AMD, this is probably the last time X299 will get a new processor, but I expect to be able to drop Zen 2 into the X399 board. Not a requirement, but a good mark for AMD.
 
NoOne ButMe
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:33 pm

TL;DR:
I would say if 24/7 means no reboots unless absolutely necessary, Intel is clearly the winner.
If Rebooting when planning to game (and when you are done gaming) is okay, I would lean more towards AMD. As it will match/beat the 4770k @ 4.4Ghz for sure.

full:
Given AMD seems to match what you need with the bonus of likely having an upgrade path (and also EEC if you need it) I would lean that direction.

Given you would probably keep this for at least 4-5 years (longer if Zen2 drops in?) I would think the extra time dealing with routing cables and modifications would be of minimal impact.

Intel will of course offer superior performance in gaming, but it seems you think your baseline 4770k @ 4.4Ghz would be good enough for both 4K and 90Hz VR as it is. And I don't think you'll see a deficit from TR running in 4.3-4.4Ghz range for that. When you use gaming mode.

This is one you should look at. I imagine 24/7 is something you want purely for the distributed computing, and regular reboots would be fine. But if regular reboots are not fine, well. As problematic as it is, Principled Technologies does show even the 2950X taking a signficant FPS drop in games without game mode enabled. And I'm sure the impact on frametimes is worse than the impact on average FPS.

https://www.principledtechnologies.com/ ... 101218.pdf

Anandtech did a little digging into it does indeed impact
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11726/re ... ormance/16

And Gamersnexus:
https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3 ... iew/page-2

At 4K it is lesser impact, but still close to 30% in some cases per Anandtech.
GamersNexus just does 1080p, but some lows are massive different between game mode and creator mode on the 16C 1950X.

Quite sad that Techreport hasn't had the drive or time (and the latter is probably it) to explore game mode and it's impact on frametimes given this site was the site that started it, and still does it better than anyone else.

(Yes, they did it on the 2990WX, but the WX line is not the part of TR aimed at gamers, and "Game Mode" just makes it like a slower 2950X in creator mode)
 
Martin the Kiteboy
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:54 pm

Thanks for that reply, I did not realize that the 2950X needed the reboot for game/creator mode. I thought that that was a WX only drawback. Will read into the impact that has, I am not a fan of needing to reboot to scale performance based on usage.
 
synthtel2
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:08 pm

Threadripper looks like the winner here to me. If you don't have high/twitchy framerate targets in the first place, Intel's gaming advantage doesn't mean much of anything, and when you get to VR the game devs have a lot of pressure to make things run at a solid 90 Hz on systems weaker in every way than your proposed 2950X build. If you're sure those climate models can make use of the extra threads, though, that's a real boost.

In NUMA mode, could you possibly run the models on one die and game on the other? They'd still share a power budget, but it sounds like you've got some excellent cooling and memory performance would work out nicely.

TR has enough data on the 2950X to show it doesn't need a reboot to perform well in gaming. I wouldn't worry about that one.

I don't know about Windows ECC stuff, but you can get ECC RAM based on Samsung B-die which can be clocked to 3200C14 easily, and being ECC it becomes obvious where the clock and timing limits are (assuming there's a way to check in Windows). Compromising on RAM speed will hurt gaming performance, so since it sounds like you already have some way to double-check the results of the long-running jobs, 3200C14 non-ECC probably beats 2666C19 ECC. If you can get fast ECC though, this sounds like a good place to use it.
 
Airmantharp
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:28 pm

Three basic responses:

1. You're not going to get much faster than the 4770 for gaming.

You might get a little bit, at best; to get the most, you'd need to go 9900K. I know that you excluded the consumer socket CPUs, and the 9900K certainly isn't going to get you significantly more performance at 4k for today's games.

2. The 2080 is not faster enough to recommend as an upgrade to a competent gaming card (>1070/Vega56) unless that card just isn't fast enough.

Coming from a 1080, I'd set my sights on no less than a 2080Ti level of performance as an upgrade. Since the 2080Ti is essentially not available and is the only product at its level of performance, the best recommendation is to wait. Lower settings if you have to. By the time that you can make use of more performance, you will get a lot more for your money or just spend less money; and with the demand of 2000-series GPUs inflating retail prices, probably both.

3. Highly recommend two separate rigs.

Set up a Ryzen rig with ECC that you can leave unattended in a corner, be that a 2700X or 2950X. I realize that you don't want to do this, but I mention it regardless because your goals are contradictory to the point that you will over-spend and still wind up with a compromise. With a separate rig you can grab solid budget parts for enclosure/cooling/PSU/drives. And it keeps your stuff separate; you can run Linux or a hypervisor on the Ryzen system and toss whatever else you want on it, provisioned however you need it.
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Martin the Kiteboy
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:58 pm

synthtel2, I would absolutely appreciate a link to B-die ECC memory. I know I will pay for it, but something like that is hard to pass up if I go the AMD route.

As for the Game/Creative mode stuff, I guess I fell off of the wagon with the WX chips and their oddball die configuration. Once the WX series was out, my brain immediately associated Game/Creative mode with disabling the two dies which do not have direct memory access. I forgot wholly about the NUMA / UMA considerations for having to jump across the Infinity Fabric to access the "far" memory on the 2950X / 1950X.

Knowing that now, I am somewhat perplexed. The TR reviews absolutely show the 2950X holding its own in the "time spent beyond x" plots, but I cannot for the life of me see how Jeff was testing TR in these cases, as in with or without the Game/Creative mode toggle, or whether this was with NUMA / UMA. I would hope he would indicate the which, and he did not, so I guess I have to assume that all tests were run in default Creative / UMA mode to make the multi-threaded compute stuff line up with expectations. However, the Anandtech article NoOne ButMe linked to shows some considerable performance gains going to Game mode, and even more gains from simply disabling SMT and setting NUMA. Assuming Jeff got the same speedups, the 2950X would handily beat the Intel platforms in gaming, so I am back to believing he tested the games in Game mode.

Can Ryzen Master enable/disable SMT without a reboot? I am guessing not, but that would be nice.

To Airmatharp:
1: I was thinking so for a while, but looking at the TR 8700K review and how much the 4790K lags behind the 8700K, I expect that all the little tweaks since Haswell have added up. Enough so that I would feel odd slapping a 2080Ti into my current rig.
2. I agree that the 2080Ti is the best upgrade from the 1080, since it is about twice as fast at "traditional" raster rendering, which I will definitely notice in the newer games. 2080 is faster, but when those are $800+ the extra $400 does not sting so much. Out-of-stock reality excluded for now.
3. I completely understand your stance, and can offer little logical retort. I am sure I can drop a 9700k into a decent ITX mobo for gaming and a few distributed computing threads, and get a Ryzen 2700, drop it into a standalone system and run the distributed computing off of that and spend less money. I may toy with that a little to see just how much less I may need to spend, but I have a sneaking suspicion it is not as much as either of us thinks. Plus my aesthetic sense loves shoehorning this all into one box.
 
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:07 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
TR has enough data on the 2950X to show it doesn't need a reboot to perform well in gaming. I wouldn't worry about that one.

The problem is it varies a lot game to game.

Some games have almost nothing, other games may have 30%+ impact.

And with VR being a requirement, I think that possible impact could cause plenty of reboots. Which the OP seems to wish to avoid.

So... Ugh. I wanta slap myself for saying Intel is probably a better choice. But given the specific parameters--Intel looks to be better, slightly.
 
Airmantharp
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:34 pm

Martin the Kiteboy wrote:
1: I was thinking so for a while, but looking at the TR 8700K review and how much the 4790K lags behind the 8700K, I expect that all the little tweaks since Haswell have added up. Enough so that I would feel odd slapping a 2080Ti into my current rig.


Do note that the linked benchmarks are at stock, and you're running overclocked. Obviously you're still going to be a bit behind but I don't expect the delta to be so large that it'd actually be noticeable at 4k, yet.

Martin the Kiteboy wrote:
2. I agree that the 2080Ti is the best upgrade from the 1080, since it is about twice as fast at "traditional" raster rendering, which I will definitely notice in the newer games. 2080 is faster, but when those are $800+ the extra $400 does not sting so much. Out-of-stock reality excluded for now.


If you are willing to step up to a 2080Ti at MSRP, that's that ;). But I would only recommend doing so when you need it. Currently in mid-October is an especially disadvantageous time to purchase, being right before the holiday season and this year being before initial widespread availability of a new GPU while GPU prices in general remain inflated from the widespread effects of the mining bubble earlier in the year.

Martin the Kiteboy wrote:
3. I completely understand your stance, and can offer little logical retort. I am sure I can drop a 9700k into a decent ITX mobo for gaming and a few distributed computing threads, and get a Ryzen 2700, drop it into a standalone system and run the distributed computing off of that and spend less money. I may toy with that a little to see just how much less I may need to spend, but I have a sneaking suspicion it is not as much as either of us thinks. Plus my aesthetic sense loves shoehorning this all into one box.


I'm not going to argue against aesthetics, that's the part that I appreciate about what you're trying to do!

However, putting everything into one box has its disadvantages. I mentioned the competing requirements, but I'll add that when you separate the roles of gaming and compute, you can upgrade each independently. Further, aesthetics aren't completely compromised when the second box doesn't have to be on the desk!

And I'm making that point in concert with the response to point one above- build the second system, use it for compute, and keep your desktop as is until you can upgrade it specifically for needs that come along.
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Martin the Kiteboy
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:29 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
I'm not going to argue against aesthetics, that's the part that I appreciate about what you're trying to do!

However, putting everything into one box has its disadvantages. I mentioned the competing requirements, but I'll add that when you separate the roles of gaming and compute, you can upgrade each independently. Further, aesthetics aren't completely compromised when the second box doesn't have to be on the desk!

And I'm making that point in concert with the response to point one above- build the second system, use it for compute, and keep your desktop as is until you can upgrade it specifically for needs that come along.


The independent upgrade paths is a fair point I had not yet considered. I am certainly motivated to get the 2080Ti at MSRP (Ouch) near-now if only because working on this box is tight, and I only want to delve in there once to upgrade it all. Luckily the GPU is the easiest thing to access, plumbing the water cooling loop included. In that sense it may make sense to wait for some of this dust to settle and see what happens to 2080Ti prices once stock returns. I am not hurting for the upgrade.

As for the two systems vs one system price, the difference is about $300 on average. This is a lot of spitballing while I research the 2950X NUMA behavior. Estimated thread counts are based my experience with the distributed computing simulations. Community data shows that on an 1800X one can run 8 sim threads because AMD SMT does not play nice. Intel SMT is less problematic, so I can happily load the 9700K / 9920X and leave some threads for non-sim work. The results are broken down roughly as follows:

Two Systems: $1650, 32GB total memory, ~12 sim threads (8 Ryzen, 4 Intel)
    $800 for Ryzen 2600 and 16GB ECC memory w/ supporting case, mobo, PSU, etc
    $850 for 9700K and 16GB B-die memory w/ ITX mobo
Intel System: $1850, 32GB total memory, ~16 sim threads
    $1150 for 9920X
    $400 for 32 GB B-die SODIMM memory
    $300 for X299E ITX mobo
AMD System: $2000, 64GB total memory, ~16 sim threads
    $900 for 2950X
    $800 for 64GB B-die ECC memory (64GB because 32GB is about the same cost, thanks batsh1t DRAM industry*)
    $300 for X399M mobo

Who would have thought it takes a long forum thread to determine Intel edges out as best for gaming and AMD edges out best workstation work? :lol:

Looking at those prices and options, the two-system build with a 9900K vs a 9700K may not be a bad way to go. I am happy to wait for that review. I could bring the price of the AMD system down by finding the cheaper 32GB ECC memory, or bring the Intel price up to parity with the 64GB AMD system by going for a 9940X. Interesting variables to play around with. I will definitely be awaiting the 9900K reviews, and seeing how Basin Falls / Skylake-X Refresh overclocks.

*I am still trying to wrap my head around 16GB ECC B-Die M391A2K43BB1 RAM sticks costing as much as 8GB ECC B-Die M391A1K43BB1 RAM sticks in the wild. Not counting eBay results, but maybe I need to look into that.
 
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:05 pm

You don't have to reboot TR, just use something like process lasso in windows.

Previous xeons past a certain number of cores (12+ on 2011v3) have 2 or more rings and can also benefit from this. Better boards will also let you control which "numa mode" they use. Skylake-X went mesh but the 2066 platform can go to hell for all I care.

The AMD ecc ram you want is m391a1k43bb1 8GB or m391a2k43bb1 16GB, nothing else. Its the same price as good 3200C14 tweaker b-die actually, around $200 per 16GB.

ECC is not* slower at the same speed and timings, way too many people confuse the register penalty on RIMMs, unbuffered doesn't do this. It is "harder" to overclock and is not sold "binned", but instead of guessing on gamer ram ("was that bluescreen my ram? is my data being quietly corrupted? who knows!") you will actually know when you have hit the limit. (*technically you take a huge speed hit during a correction but this is a much better outcome than bad data)

The X399M board is pretty impressive in how it crams everything possible on there, although you just missed a really good deal on it this weekend.
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:25 pm

Bauxite wrote:
ECC is not* slower at the same speed and timings, way too many people confuse the register penalty on RIMMs, unbuffered doesn't do this. It is "harder" to overclock and is not sold "binned", but instead of guessing on gamer ram ("was that bluescreen my ram? is my data being quietly corrupted? who knows!") you will actually know when you have hit the limit. (*technically you take a huge speed hit during a correction but this is a much better outcome than bad data)

Thanks for pointing this out, it seems to be a common misconception.

Registered ECC DIMMs do indeed result in a significant latency penalty; for server motherboards which support ridiculous amounts of RAM, this is deemed to be an acceptable tradeoff of lantency vs. RAM capacity (and some will also allow you to use unregistered if you're not populating all of the DIMM slots). But for unregistered ECC DIMMs, there isn't a penalty vs. non-ECC DIMMs with the same timings.
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Martin the Kiteboy
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:45 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Bauxite wrote:
ECC is not* slower at the same speed and timings, way too many people confuse the register penalty on RIMMs, unbuffered doesn't do this. It is "harder" to overclock and is not sold "binned", but instead of guessing on gamer ram ("was that bluescreen my ram? is my data being quietly corrupted? who knows!") you will actually know when you have hit the limit. (*technically you take a huge speed hit during a correction but this is a much better outcome than bad data)

Thanks for pointing this out, it seems to be a common misconception.

Registered ECC DIMMs do indeed result in a significant latency penalty; for server motherboards which support ridiculous amounts of RAM, this is deemed to be an acceptable tradeoff of lantency vs. RAM capacity (and some will also allow you to use unregistered if you're not populating all of the DIMM slots). But for unregistered ECC DIMMs, there isn't a penalty vs. non-ECC DIMMs with the same timings.


I appreciate your guys' comments. Up until synthtel2 pointed out that B-die ECC memory existed my assertion that ECC was slower was based purely on the advertised speeds. Naturally B-die is as B-die does, so buying the right ECC memory it should sit pretty at 3200 CL-14 like the rest of the non-ECC B-die stuff I am looking at. Of course I recognize that the OC speed on for the ECC B-die is not guaranteed, but B-die looks to be happy getting to that speed regularly and the vendors only need to bin to get the 4000+ speeds with decent timing. Your comments have served to inform me that RDIMM is slower through, which I did not know. Never had to deal with RDIMM though, so that explains that.
 
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:15 pm

UMA/NUMA in the TR 2950X review isn't clear, but it's clearly got all 16C in action in that testing. Worst case, as Bauxite said, just pinning processes to particular sets of cores should do the trick without rebooting. That's also what you'd need to sim on one die while gaming on the other in NUMA mode, which is a lot like each workload having a 2700 of its own if you can keep it all powered and cooled sufficiently.
 
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:20 pm

Martin the Kiteboy wrote:
Your comments have served to inform me that RDIMM is slower through, which I did not know. Never had to deal with RDIMM though, so that explains that.

Most consumer motherboards won't even POST with RDIMMs, so unless you deal with enterprise-grade workstation/server stuff you need to actively avoid it. :wink: It's also expensive, and (as noted) has higher latency; the only reason it exists is to facilitate insanely large amounts of RAM (>2 DIMMs/channel), for use cases that need it.

HEDT is of course a grey area; RDIMM support (or lack thereof) isn't a given.
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:48 pm

Martin the Kiteboy wrote:
The models I run for distributed computing are almost always long-term climate models with ~1 week 24/7 completion times

And you want to game on that rig while those are running?

Spend the money on dedicated rigs. I have rig dedicated for VR racing and another for non VR gaming and yet another for non-gaming purposes. Rebooting for driver updates, tweaking, etc, is a regular occurrence on the gaming rigs.

Gaming at 2560x1440 and above takes CPU out of the picture.
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:49 pm

End User wrote:


Be careful with this: FPS tracks well with CPU, but frametimes don't always, and if you're looking at 60FPS on average, a long frametime will be felt!
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:01 am

Martin the Kiteboy wrote:

The models I run for distributed computing are almost always long-term climate models with ~1 week 24/7 completion times, and these almost always complete without error on my current rig.



-is this available for dCUDA? If so, that might suggest something far less (multi) core CPU oriented, off-load to your 1080 (as a compute card), and purchase a 2080Ti for gaming at 4k.
 
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:11 am

End User wrote:

Spend the money on dedicated rigs. I have rig dedicated for VR racing and another for non VR gaming and yet another for non-gaming purposes. Rebooting for driver updates, tweaking, etc, is a regular occurrence on the gaming rigs.


He could also do a Virtual Machine Server (..with something relatively easy like UnRAID), and use pass-through for the GPU, partitioning off the threads for each system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD4BxGNShw8

(..though UnRAID I believe is based on Arch.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDtSHSmFFaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u6DY8On1XA
 
Redocbew
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:44 am

If the OP wants to go that route I'd be very careful when choosing components. Maybe they'd have better luck with enterprise/workstation stuff, but I'd get confirmation on motherboard support, and rule out driver shenanigans before buying new hardware with the intent to pass through the GPU.
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dragontamer5788
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:30 am

just brew it! wrote:
Martin the Kiteboy wrote:
Your comments have served to inform me that RDIMM is slower through, which I did not know. Never had to deal with RDIMM though, so that explains that.

Most consumer motherboards won't even POST with RDIMMs, so unless you deal with enterprise-grade workstation/server stuff you need to actively avoid it. :wink: It's also expensive, and (as noted) has higher latency; the only reason it exists is to facilitate insanely large amounts of RAM (>2 DIMMs/channel), for use cases that need it.

HEDT is of course a grey area; RDIMM support (or lack thereof) isn't a given.


RDIMMs have come down in price actually: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-16GB-DDR ... 01NCO0JCZ/

But yeah, you usually don't want RDIMMs on a consumer platform for the reasons you've listed. You really only need RDIMMs (or LRDIMMs) if you need lots of capacity: like 32GB sticks or more.
 
dragontamer5788
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:38 am

Martin the Kiteboy wrote:
The models I run for distributed computing are almost always long-term climate models with ~1 week 24/7 completion times, and these almost always complete without error on my current rig.


I'm going to lean towards dedicated rig, like some other posters here.

But if you're really going to be running background tasks for a week at a time (and trying to run gaming on top of that), then HEDT seems like your best option. Threadripper has the benefit of being NUMA-nodes, so you can pin your background threads to NUMA Node #1, while you can game on Numa Node #0 (or whatever node happens to have your GPU in it). Good Affinity settings would minimize the cross-interaction between the two programs.

Intel HEDT however has lower latencies and higher clocks. So you'd get better gaming performance out of Intel's platforms.
 
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:43 am

NoOne ButMe wrote:
This is one you should look at. I imagine 24/7 is something you want purely for the distributed computing, and regular reboots would be fine. But if regular reboots are not fine, well. As problematic as it is, Principled Technologies does show even the 2950X taking a signficant FPS drop in games without game mode enabled. And I'm sure the impact on frametimes is worse than the impact on average FPS.


Well, since the distributed computing threads are running 24/7, can't OP just manually set core affinity on them to peg those threads to one module?

IIRC the whole idea behind game mode is to group related threads together and prevent high-latency cross-module communication. If you make it so that one module is fully occupied by the distributed computing threads, then all of the gaming threads will naturally fall on the vacant module and perform exactly like it would on a 2700X.
 
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:11 am

I've been struggling to find the x399M Taichi anywhere.

I think I've depleted all the stock in Europe by buying just 16 boards in the last month, I've had to buy further afield after the first 8, sourcing from Sweden and the Czech republic.

In saying that, it's a great board; We stuff ours with 1950X at the moment (can't beat the core-count/price ratio) and they run simulations or renders 24/7 just like you plan to.
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Re: New Platform: Threadripper or Skylake-X

Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:49 am

Here's another option -- get a TR system dedicated to the compute tasks, and keep gaming on the existing Haswell system. That would get you the compute performance you are after, provide independent upgrade paths, and make sure that your games and your compute tasks don't interfere with one another.

You could even run the compute system headless and just RDP into it, saving the need for an extra monitor.
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