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UnfriendlyFire
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How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:27 pm

I have a four years old Acer Travelmate P645-MG laptop. I originally intended on replacing the thermal paste of the CPU and GPU, only to discover that I can't remove any of the heatsink/heatpipe's screws as the screwdriver keeps slipping out.

If I can't safely remove the heatsink without stripping the tiny screws' surfaces, would be safe to assume that the OEM's thermal paste is good enough with that much pressure applied to it?
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:33 pm

UnfriendlyFire wrote:
would be safe to assume that the OEM's thermal paste is good enough with that much pressure applied to it?

What are the temperatures and clock speeds of the CPU and GPU like, both in normal operation and under stress test conditions?

If they're too high, the TIM isn't okay; if they're fine, it is.

I'm a bit confused about this question, TBH: trying do the work already (with its risks) implies that it needs doing, but then you ask if you can assume the TIM is okay ...
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UnfriendlyFire
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Topinio wrote:
UnfriendlyFire wrote:
would be safe to assume that the OEM's thermal paste is good enough with that much pressure applied to it?

What are the temperatures and clock speeds of the CPU and GPU like, both in normal operation and under stress test conditions?

If they're too high, the TIM isn't okay; if they're fine, it is.

I'm a bit confused about this question, TBH: trying do the work already (with its risks) implies that it needs doing, but then you ask if you can assume the TIM is okay ...


XTU reports thermal throttling kicks in at 70C when gaming, and that's with undervolting applied.
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:02 pm

The screws are held in with thread locker and are designed NOT to be replaceable.
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UnfriendlyFire
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:09 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
The screws are held in with thread locker and are designed NOT to be replaceable.


That was what I was afraid of. Some of the screws I removed to dissemble the fan assembly for dust cleaning had blue loctite on them.
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:43 pm

MOST laptops thermally throttle under constant heavy load of both the CPU and GPU.
That's the unfortunate truth.
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:52 pm

It sounds like you need to use a larger screwdriver that may have a better fit. There are pointed & blunt-tipped screwdrivers that slot in place better depending on the screw used, as well.
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:02 pm

Kougar wrote:
It sounds like you need to use a larger screwdriver that may have a better fit. There are pointed & blunt-tipped screwdrivers that slot in place better depending on the screw used, as well.

It's the LocTite. The screws are designed to be single-use.
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:25 pm

viewtopic.php?t=56194

Nothing new under the sun.
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:51 am

UnfriendlyFire wrote:
I have a four years old Acer Travelmate P645-MG laptop. I originally intended on replacing the thermal paste of the CPU and GPU, only to discover that I can't remove any of the heatsink/heatpipe's screws as the screwdriver keeps slipping out.

If I can't safely remove the heatsink without stripping the tiny screws' surfaces, would be safe to assume that the OEM's thermal paste is good enough with that much pressure applied to it?

...probably one of the thread-locking liquids being used to prevent disassembly, unless its really high temp application simple warm up to 60-80 degrees Celsius will do the trick of loosening.
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:47 pm

UnfriendlyFire wrote:
Topinio wrote:
UnfriendlyFire wrote:
would be safe to assume that the OEM's thermal paste is good enough with that much pressure applied to it?

What are the temperatures and clock speeds of the CPU and GPU like, both in normal operation and under stress test conditions?

If they're too high, the TIM isn't okay; if they're fine, it is.

I'm a bit confused about this question, TBH: trying do the work already (with its risks) implies that it needs doing, but then you ask if you can assume the TIM is okay ...


XTU reports thermal throttling kicks in at 70C when gaming, and that's with undervolting applied.


70C is kinda a low temperature for thermal throttling... also how do you have voltage control on a normal laptop?
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:51 pm

olegtf wrote:
...probably one of the thread-locking liquids being used to prevent disassembly,

On a mobile device, it's generally not to prevent disassembly, it's to prevent the screws from working loose as the device gets banged around, dropped, etc.
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:43 pm

just brew it! wrote:
olegtf wrote:
...probably one of the thread-locking liquids being used to prevent disassembly,

On a mobile device, it's generally not to prevent disassembly, it's to prevent the screws from working loose as the device gets banged around, dropped, etc.

I stand corrected - self inflicted disassembly...
Image

P.S. no disrespect intended, but, do you know why screws on the spindle inside the hard drive, which holds platters don't have any thread-lock?
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:43 pm

olegtf wrote:
P.S. no disrespect intended, but, do you know why screws on the spindle inside the hard drive, which holds platters don't have any thread-lock?

Those are high quality screws with fine-pitch threads, torqued into another high-quality machined assembly, secured against the direction of spindle rotation, and supporting a nearly vibration-free balanced assembly. They won't work lose under those conditions. Also, the platter assembly is hermetically sealed and any foreign material that might somehow disintegrate and work its way out into the chamber is most unwelcome.

Cheap chassis screws torqued into soft metals or plastics have a much harder life, and a bit of locking compound is a cheap way to make sure they don't work lose unless someone is applying a tool. And sometimes not even then.
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:53 pm

ludi wrote:
Those are high quality screws with fine-pitch threads, torqued into another high-quality machined assembly, secured against the direction of spindle rotation, and supporting a nearly vibration-free balanced assembly. They won't work lose under those conditions. Also, the platter assembly is hermetically sealed and any foreign material that might somehow disintegrate and work its way out into the chamber is most unwelcome.

It's a common misconception that HDDs are hermetically sealed. Only the helium-filled ones are. Typical (non-helium) HDDs have a breather hole with a very fine filter in it to exclude outside contaminants, while allowing the pressure inside the drive to equalize to ambient air pressure.

That doesn't change the fact that (as you state) any residual particles of thread lock compound that managed to break free inside the drive would be a serious problem.
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:19 pm

ludi wrote:
olegtf wrote:
P.S. no disrespect intended, but, do you know why screws on the spindle inside the hard drive, which holds platters don't have any thread-lock?

Those are high quality screws with fine-pitch threads, torqued into another high-quality machined assembly, secured against the direction of spindle rotation, and supporting a nearly vibration-free balanced assembly. They won't work lose under those conditions. Also, the platter assembly is hermetically sealed and any foreign material that might somehow disintegrate and work its way out into the chamber is most unwelcome.

Cheap chassis screws torqued into soft metals or plastics have a much harder life, and a bit of locking compound is a cheap way to make sure they don't work lose unless someone is applying a tool. And sometimes not even then.

U just broke my brand spanking new BS detector...
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:29 am

olegtf wrote:
U just broke my brand spanking new BS detector...

I don't think you would know how to calibrate one even if you had such a thing :-)
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:11 am

btw BLUE thread locker is for replaceable screws and only help to keep the screw from backing out.
Once it set is it sort of gummy to soft plastic

RED thread locker or loctite is a metal to metal GLUE with a very high shear strength.
It sets to a very hard plastic feeling substance. It is intended to make sure you can never remove the bolt.
You would use it when a bolt must positively never come out or to get a good enough connection even though you stripped the hole etc.
For instance when you gotta make sure the bolts holding your log trailer's suspension together stop working loose because of the weight and vibration and it is becoming a safety concern.... :D
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:50 am

ludi wrote:
olegtf wrote:
U just broke my brand spanking new BS detector...

I don't think you would know how to calibrate one even if you had such a thing :-)

... well they are preconfigured nowadays you know :-) Anyways - direction of rotation causes regular M2 titanium screws to self tighten in aluminum spindle, thus absence of any compound...
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:58 am

olegtf wrote:
ludi wrote:
olegtf wrote:
U just broke my brand spanking new BS detector...

I don't think you would know how to calibrate one even if you had such a thing :-)

... well they are preconfigured nowadays you know :-) Anyways - direction of rotation causes regular M2 titanium screws to self tighten in aluminum spindle, thus absence of any compound...

Wouldn't it tend to cancel out, since for each time the platter accelerates (spin up), it also decelerates (spin down)? The torque created on the platter and screws would be equal and opposite.
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:19 am

just brew it! wrote:
olegtf wrote:
ludi wrote:
I don't think you would know how to calibrate one even if you had such a thing :-)

... well they are preconfigured nowadays you know :-) Anyways - direction of rotation causes regular M2 titanium screws to self tighten in aluminum spindle, thus absence of any compound...

Wouldn't it tend to cancel out, since for each time the platter accelerates (spin up), it also decelerates (spin down)? The torque created on the platter and screws would be equal and opposite.

...I cant argue with Dunning–Kruger effect. Have an effervescent day.
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:24 am

olegtf wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
olegtf wrote:
... well they are preconfigured nowadays you know :-) Anyways - direction of rotation causes regular M2 titanium screws to self tighten in aluminum spindle, thus absence of any compound...

Wouldn't it tend to cancel out, since for each time the platter accelerates (spin up), it also decelerates (spin down)? The torque created on the platter and screws would be equal and opposite.

...I cant argue with Dunning–Kruger effect. Have an effervescent day.

Don't see how it can be Dunning-Kruger, when it was phrased as a question. :roll:
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:30 am

just brew it! wrote:
olegtf wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Wouldn't it tend to cancel out, since for each time the platter accelerates (spin up), it also decelerates (spin down)? The torque created on the platter and screws would be equal and opposite.

...I cant argue with Dunning–Kruger effect. Have an effervescent day.

Don't see how it can be Dunning-Kruger, when it was phrased as a question. :roll:

I'll give you a hint - military trucks still have left and right hand threads on wheels on opposite sides of the vehicle... To answer your question it doesn't.
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:00 am

Probably akin to the difference of static friction and kinetic friction. You can cause something to start rotating by pulsing fast and slow movements.
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:02 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Probably akin to the difference of static friction and kinetic friction. You can cause something to start rotating by pulsing fast and slow movements.

https://youtu.be/nN5lIEcbXpM
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:08 pm

olegtf wrote:
ludi wrote:
olegtf wrote:
U just broke my brand spanking new BS detector...

I don't think you would know how to calibrate one even if you had such a thing :-)

... well they are preconfigured nowadays you know :-) Anyways - direction of rotation causes regular M2 titanium screws to self tighten in aluminum spindle, thus absence of any compound...

So wait...you try to insult someone, then repeat what they said in slightly different words and details?
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:46 pm

JBI wrote:
It's a common misconception that HDDs are hermetically sealed.


People also misunderstand or sometimes just misstate the term, which is understandable because it's figuratively (and originally literally) occult. :wink:
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:22 pm

ludi wrote:
olegtf wrote:
ludi wrote:
I don't think you would know how to calibrate one even if you had such a thing :-)

... well they are preconfigured nowadays you know :-) Anyways - direction of rotation causes regular M2 titanium screws to self tighten in aluminum spindle, thus absence of any compound...

So wait...you try to insult someone, then repeat what they said in slightly different words and details?


That's how it is done! :D
Keep everyone guessing...
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:24 pm

ludi wrote:
olegtf wrote:
ludi wrote:
I don't think you would know how to calibrate one even if you had such a thing :-)

... well they are preconfigured nowadays you know :-) Anyways - direction of rotation causes regular M2 titanium screws to self tighten in aluminum spindle, thus absence of any compound...

So wait...you try to insult someone, then repeat what they said in slightly different words and details?

...once again, when dealing with developmentally challenged individuals it is recommended to provide explanations at their level of comprehension, but obviously it didn't work. Once again Dunning–Kruger syndrome - please familiarize yourself.
 
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Re: How to remove a heatsink secured with over-torqued screws?

Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:48 pm

TwistedKestrel wrote:
UnfriendlyFire wrote:
Topinio wrote:
What are the temperatures and clock speeds of the CPU and GPU like, both in normal operation and under stress test conditions?

If they're too high, the TIM isn't okay; if they're fine, it is.

I'm a bit confused about this question, TBH: trying do the work already (with its risks) implies that it needs doing, but then you ask if you can assume the TIM is okay ...


XTU reports thermal throttling kicks in at 70C when gaming, and that's with undervolting applied.


70C is kinda a low temperature for thermal throttling... also how do you have voltage control on a normal laptop?


Sorry for the very late response. Voltage control comes from Intel XTU. The earlier XTU versions allowed much more fine-tuning of voltages on mobile Haswell and Broadwell, and they would still stay applied between restarts, but Intel took them all down because they decided the newest version was "good enough".

I don't know if XTU still works on the newer Intel processors, and I certainly don't plan on trying the "current limit" controls that is in the XTU.

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