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mvp324
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Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:55 am

Hey all,

I want to replace my parents outdoor wireless device to something a bit more robust, as our 2nd device has apparently stopped working (my dad said it has, I’ve no way to verify personally). The device I’ve been using is EnGenius wireless Ethernet bridge/access point, model ENH202. I’ve bought 2 of these the first in 07/11/2014 from Newegg ($86), the 2nd 12/02/2016 from Amazon ($75), this one apparently has been dead for the past couple of months maybe. I’ve always had the devices outside on a light pole within arms distance (I’m 5’9”). I’ve not done anything else to weatherproof the device or connection. The warranty for these devices are 1 year from purchase date, they seem to fail after the 2nd year.

While searching on Amazon for a different option I come across this https://smile.amazon.com/Antenna-World-OM2415HD-Omni-Directional-Professional/dp/B00NQGVX06/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=marine+grade+wireless+access+point&qid=1559649095&s=electronics&sr=1-5, my search words were marine grade wireless access point. Would this be a viable option to pursue? If so, know anything else I need for this type of setup.
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Heiwashin
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:36 am

How is it being used?
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:53 am

The specs for the ENH202 claim an operating temperature range of -4F to 140F. Where do your parents live? I could see that range being exceeded if winters are harsh and/or it is sitting in direct sun during hot summer months. Even if you're not quite going beyond that range, extreme temperature cycling will still shorten the life of any electronics.

Maybe something where the electronics are indoors with a cable run to a passive outside antenna would be a better option?
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notfred
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:30 am

I'd grab one of the Unifi Outdoor APs:
https://www.ui.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-outdoor/
 
mvp324
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:25 pm

Heiwashin wrote:
How is it being used?

Used outdoors to send the guest networks to anyone that’s in the back.

just brew it! wrote:
The specs for the ENH202 claim an operating temperature range of -4F to 140F. Where do your parents live? I could see that range being exceeded if winters are harsh and/or it is sitting in direct sun during hot summer months. Even if you're not quite going beyond that range, extreme temperature cycling will still shorten the life of any electronics.

Maybe something where the electronics are indoors with a cable run to a passive outside antenna would be a better option?

They live in Dillon SC, so it can get hot during the summer. I’m not sure how much sunlight is hitting it, but I never considered that to be an issue, maybe moving to under the awning would be ideal.

notfred wrote:
I'd grab one of the Unifi Outdoor APs:https://www.ui.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-outdoor/
I should look into that, have you used them before?
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Heiwashin
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:29 pm

The reason I asked, if the area they're using it in is predictable you might get away with a wide cone directional inside the house or on the awning as previously mentioned.

Something like this.

https://www.frontiercomputercorp.com/pr ... KlEALw_wcB
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:38 pm

mvp324 wrote:
They live in Dillon SC, so it can get hot during the summer. I’m not sure how much sunlight is hitting it, but I never considered that to be an issue, maybe moving to under the awning would be ideal.

Yeah, if it is getting direct sun where it is currently mounted, moving it underneath something (or putting something over it) to give it a little shade would be a good idea.
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mvp324
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:11 pm

Heiwashin wrote:
The reason I asked, if the area they're using it in is predictable you might get away with a wide cone directional inside the house or on the awning as previously mentioned.

Something like this.

https://www.frontiercomputercorp.com/pr ... KlEALw_wcB


Looks pretty solid, just that it uses sma connection, would have to find an adapter. Though I assume each of the connections on the back are for 4 different antennas

just brew it! wrote:
mvp324 wrote:
They live in Dillon SC, so it can get hot during the summer. I’m not sure how much sunlight is hitting it, but I never considered that to be an issue, maybe moving to under the awning would be ideal.


Yeah, if it is getting direct sun where it is currently mounted, moving it underneath something (or putting something over it) to give it a little shade would be a good idea.


It looks like with the options I have I should re-buy the EnGenius or buy the UniFi and have either under an awning. Tho I’m having trouble finding the outdoor version. I think it is under the model name of UAP-AC-M-PRO.
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curtisb
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:16 pm

notfred wrote:
I'd grab one of the Unifi Outdoor APs:
https://www.ui.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-outdoor/


I second that recommendation. Long term you can also change the inside APs over to Ubiquiti UniFi APs. Your devices will roam seamlessly between them (the controller will "move" them to the AP closest to the device). There are two ways to run the controller;.either on a PC (for free) or using a UniFi Cloud Key (Gen 2). I'd recommend the Cloud Key since it's stand alone and doesn't require a PC to always be on.

With regards to which specific AP to use inside, look at either the UniFi AP HD or UniFi nanoHD. The AP HD will have a larger broadcast range.

Even longer term the router could be replaced with a UniFi Security Gateway and you'll gain all kinds of visibility in the UniFi controller software. And if you go with the Cloud Key Gen2 Plus, it can be used as an NVR for UniFi Video cameras.

EDIT: The UAP HD is listed as being an Indoor/Outdoor AP. I'd recommend looking into that model instead since it's 4x4:4 and is 802.11ac wave 2...so it'll support MU-MIMO. I don't think I would install it in direct sunlight or rain, but under an awning should be fine.
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:06 pm

I'm running a Unifi AP at home indoors and I recommend them to everyone for WiFi.
 
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:12 pm

curtisb wrote:
notfred wrote:
I'd grab one of the Unifi Outdoor APs:
https://www.ui.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-outdoor/


I second that recommendation. Long term you can also change the inside APs over to Ubiquiti UniFi APs. Your devices will roam seamlessly between them (the controller will "move" them to the AP closest to the device). There are two ways to run the controller;.either on a PC (for free) or using a UniFi Cloud Key (Gen 2). I'd recommend the Cloud Key since it's stand alone and doesn't require a PC to always be on.

With regards to which specific AP to use inside, look at either the UniFi AP HD or UniFi nanoHD. The AP HD will have a larger broadcast range.

Even longer term the router could be replaced with a UniFi Security Gateway and you'll gain all kinds of visibility in the UniFi controller software. And if you go with the Cloud Key Gen2 Plus, it can be used as an NVR for UniFi Video cameras.

EDIT: The UAP HD is listed as being an Indoor/Outdoor AP. I'd recommend looking into that model instead since it's 4x4:4 and is 802.11ac wave 2...so it'll support MU-MIMO. I don't think I would install it in direct sunlight or rain, but under an awning should be fine.

Unless you are dealing with 10+ users, or have $$ to spare, the HD line is overkill. A simple AC-Pro would be perfectly fine for this use.
 
mvp324
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:19 pm

curtisb wrote:
notfred wrote:
I'd grab one of the Unifi Outdoor APs:
https://www.ui.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-outdoor/


I second that recommendation. Long term you can also change the inside APs over to Ubiquiti UniFi APs. Your devices will roam seamlessly between them (the controller will "move" them to the AP closest to the device). There are two ways to run the controller;.either on a PC (for free) or using a UniFi Cloud Key (Gen 2). I'd recommend the Cloud Key since it's stand alone and doesn't require a PC to always be on.

With regards to which specific AP to use inside, look at either the UniFi AP HD or UniFi nanoHD. The AP HD will have a larger broadcast range.

Even longer term the router could be replaced with a UniFi Security Gateway and you'll gain all kinds of visibility in the UniFi controller software. And if you go with the Cloud Key Gen2 Plus, it can be used as an NVR for UniFi Video cameras.

EDIT: The UAP HD is listed as being an Indoor/Outdoor AP. I'd recommend looking into that model instead since it's 4x4:4 and is 802.11ac wave 2...so it'll support MU-MIMO. I don't think I would install it in direct sunlight or rain, but under an awning should be fine.


Whelp guess it’s the UniFi. The WiFi network inside is just the basic home asus wifi router (can’t remember the model, but it is a few years old).
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curtisb
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:34 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Unless you are dealing with 10+ users, or have $$ to spare, the HD line is overkill. A simple AC-Pro would be perfectly fine for this use.


It's not users, it's devices. I'd bet you have more wireless devices in your home that you realize...I can start with five mobile phones and three laptops right off the top in my home. That doesn't include game consoles, Fire TV's, SmartTV's, thermostats, printers, guests coming in with their own devices, etc.

Also, the AC Pro is an older model. It's not wave 2 and does not support MU-MIMO.
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:38 pm

Very few of those need concurrent high-speed connections. MU-MIMOis great when you want multiple users to share a huge internet pipe. Probably not the case for most people. Even if 1 or two might be steaming video, you are taking 20-30mbps? 802.11n could handle that. Wave2 is overkill for most consumers.

And some people don’t have a crap ton of devices. I have 2 devices on 5g and 3 on 2.4g on my AC Pro at the moment. Basically other than the 2 iPhones, 1 iPad, 1 older iPhone, the only devices are the bathroom scale. Everything else is on wired Ethernet with WiFi turned off
 
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:18 pm

curtisb wrote:
It's not users, it's devices. I'd bet you have more wireless devices in your home that you realize...

Eh? It isn't the devices, it's the quality of the AP. Buy a good one and it will deal gracefully with the traffic management regardless of whether it supports the newest and best standards.

We've hosted gamenight dinner parties with the commensurate number of tech geeks present for 3-4 hours, 20+ devices connected concurrently to an older UniFi AP (a/b/g, not even ac). Works fine. Typically a home network isn't trying to livestream an HD videoconference between all the users simultaneously. I've had the Unifi AC-Lite sitting in my Amazon wishlist for a year, still can't find a reason to run another $90 through the cart.
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curtisb
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:38 pm

The discussion was around the number of client devices (sorry, but my WiFI enabled thermostat is not a "user"). Your reply assumes a lot about how WiFi works. It's not just your AP(s) that can affect how it works. WiFi itself is a really crappy technology. I've posted this link before, but it's worth a read if you haven't seen it before:

https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... -of-sucks/

MU-MIMO at the AP level is aimed to try to fix some of that, even if the clients are SU-MIMO only. A 4x4:4 wave 2 AP with MU-MIMO can simultaneously communicate with two 2x2 clients, four 1x1 clients, a 2x2 and two 1x1 clients, etc. SU-MIMO APs can't do that.

I will absolutely concede that, even not knowing the expected number of devices, coverage area, etc., an AP Pro would likely be fine for what he's trying to do. I'll also concede that the AP HD is on the expensive side (all quality 4x4:4 wave 2 APs are right now). All I was doing was providing information for him to make an informed decision and purchase.
Last edited by curtisb on Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:13 pm

Like others, I'd go with Ubiquiti for outdoor access points. You're going to find a range of options and price ranges, and they're known for it.

I'm using Ubiquiti for my indoor AC wireless and have been extremely satisfied.
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mvp324
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:23 am

Thanks for the input, just now trying to make sure the version's I'm looking at are the right model.
Box 1
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi ... ay&sr=8-18
Box 2
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi ... ay&sr=8-15
Circle 1
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Netwo ... way&sr=8-3
Circle 2
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-A ... way&sr=8-5

Only difference I can find between each of the 1 and 2 is the ASIN.

I probably don't need the ability to support 100+ users, the AP is for the few renters, 5 at the most in the back of my parent's motel. The range I'm looking at is about 100 meters to 150 meters, but would have to pass through concrete/cinder block. I assume the circle models are the newer models, if they are the same I'll go ahead and order the device.

Whenever they decide to retire and sell the place, I'd probably take it and use it for my self, if they don't need it.
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:28 pm

mvp324 wrote:
Thanks for the input, just now trying to make sure the version's I'm looking at are the right model.
Box 1
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi ... ay&sr=8-18
Box 2
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi ... ay&sr=8-15
Circle 1
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Netwo ... way&sr=8-3
Circle 2
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-A ... way&sr=8-5

Only difference I can find between each of the 1 and 2 is the ASIN.

I probably don't need the ability to support 100+ users, the AP is for the few renters, 5 at the most in the back of my parent's motel. The range I'm looking at is about 100 meters to 150 meters, but would have to pass through concrete/cinder block. I assume the circle models are the newer models, if they are the same I'll go ahead and order the device.

Whenever they decide to retire and sell the place, I'd probably take it and use it for my self, if they don't need it.




WiFi frequencies pass fairly well through concrete. WiFi doesn't do well with "high performance concrete", but I doubt you have that...
 
mvp324
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Re: Outdoor Wireless

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:20 pm

roncat wrote:
mvp324 wrote:
Thanks for the input, just now trying to make sure the version's I'm looking at are the right model.
Box 1
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi ... ay&sr=8-18
Box 2
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Unifi ... ay&sr=8-15
Circle 1
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Netwo ... way&sr=8-3
Circle 2
https://smile.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-UAP-A ... way&sr=8-5

Only difference I can find between each of the 1 and 2 is the ASIN.

I probably don't need the ability to support 100+ users, the AP is for the few renters, 5 at the most in the back of my parent's motel. The range I'm looking at is about 100 meters to 150 meters, but would have to pass through concrete/cinder block. I assume the circle models are the newer models, if they are the same I'll go ahead and order the device.

Whenever they decide to retire and sell the place, I'd probably take it and use it for my self, if they don't need it.




WiFi frequencies pass fairly well through concrete. WiFi doesn't do well with "high performance concrete", but I doubt you have that...


Yeaahh..... I'm not sure when the place was built but it is probably 1970's old.
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