Personal computing discussed

Moderators: renee, mac_h8r1, Nemesis

Do computer cases need to be smaller?

Yes, I want a desktop that's as small as my laptop.
4 (9%)
Yes, I need to see my wall again.
5 (12%)
Maybe, a little more desk space could work.
8 (19%)
No, they're fine the way they are.
18 (42%)
Smaller? No, they need to get bigger!
8 (19%)
 
Total votes: 43
 
Resomegnis
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:20 pm

Small Form Factor Vs Full Size PCs

Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:50 pm

With the DTX format coming and the small form factor computers picking up some popularity I thought I'd start a little discussion.

I've noticed a lot of manufacturers (HP, Acer, Dell) are releasing towers in small form factor. So you'll have a tower that is 1/3 or less the size of a normal PC Tower. Shuttle PCs have been around for a while and Micro-ATX boards, but it seems that people are looking more for a smaller desktop and smaller laptop in this ever growing world.

Personally I think the bigger the better. I have a server case for my computer for the simple fact that when I want to do something, add something, or remove something, I CAN! There's not step 1, 2, 3, it's just do it. I can't stand the small size computers because you can't get elbow deep, your lucky to get wrist deep.

I can understand the smaller size though, it reduces noise, cuts down on power, and saves desk space if you're not on a laptop. But I just can't behind the concept. What do you guys think?
Asus A8N-SLI, Athlon 64 3800+ (Venice), Nvidia 6800GT 256 MB Video Card, 1GB (2X 512) Corsair XMS 3200, 2X 74 GB Raptors, Seagate 160 GB PATA, 2X NEC 16X DVD Burner, Audigy 2 ZS Sound Card, Logitech X-530 5.1 Speakers, Enermax 535 W Powersupply
 
dragmor
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3644
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:24 pm
Location: Oz

Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:03 pm

The smaller and quieter the better (although smaller does not automatically mean quieter). I think the iMac all in monitor solution is the way of the future for Office and non gaming PCs. It doesn’t make sense for the average person (that is never going to open their case) to have a box on their desk that is 90% air.

Shuttle’s G series seems to be a good compromise to me, enough room for standard parts, efficient design and looks good (G5s anyway).

AMD’s mini DTX specification is basically a squarer, more flexible Shuttle. Using all standard parts is a good thing (price wise). I just wish someone would make a standard for a smaller power supply.
SZ87R6/i5 4560 stock/24GB 2333mhz/840 Evo 250GB/Seagate 2TB/ASUS 760GTX/Dell 2711
Rainbows lie in corded knots
While thunder wakes the sleeping crocs.
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25690
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:07 pm

dragmor wrote:
AMD’s mini DTX specification is basically a squarer, more flexible Shuttle. Using all standard parts is a good thing (price wise). I just wish someone would make a standard for a smaller power supply.
I see DTX's main advantage to be the 4x or 6x cuts per large PCB. That should make motherboard makers very happy. To do it with small size and standard stuff? Just icing on the cake. It will be interesting to see if and when Intel adopts it, assuming the spec gathers steam.

I have seen the light of a small system, but I understand it's not for everyone. You can search my adventure with the A8N-VM CSM and Asus TM-210 case. I am sorry I have procrastinated so long and still not post a build log + pictures. :oops:
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
dragmor
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3644
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:24 pm
Location: Oz

Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:10 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
dragmor wrote:
AMD’s mini DTX specification is basically a squarer, more flexible Shuttle. Using all standard parts is a good thing (price wise). I just wish someone would make a standard for a smaller power supply.
I see DTX's main advantage to be the 4x or 6x cuts per large PCB. That should make motherboard makers very happy.

The standard cut size was brillant on AMD's part and a huge mistake on the ATX spec, especially since there is only 1-2cm in it. Its probably the only reason we will see DTX supported.
SZ87R6/i5 4560 stock/24GB 2333mhz/840 Evo 250GB/Seagate 2TB/ASUS 760GTX/Dell 2711
Rainbows lie in corded knots
While thunder wakes the sleeping crocs.
 
crazybus
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2261
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 9:25 pm

Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:18 pm

I hope we see a good supply of motherboards and chassis in the DTX form factor. I'm a big fan of smaller and quieter computers, as long as they retain support standardized components. I think my next case will be Lian-Li's PC-A05B - 15" tall with room for an ATX motherboard and full size cpu cooler.
[email protected] | GA-P35-DS3L | 8GB DDR2-800 | MSI GTX 560 Ti | Lian Li PC-7B | Corsair 450VX | Dell 2005FPW
 
StarkMjolk
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 705
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:20 pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:25 am

I see DTX as a very good thing. Hopefully it will lead to paying less for the same for most consumers, and that can't be bad.

And as for size of the case, I was once a bigger is better guy but I've moved on now, I don't have time to play around with my hardware several times a week anyway anymore. A few months ago I bought a Lian-Li V600, a bit tricky to work in when filled, but fairly quiet and I get room for one optical + seven HDDs with an extra HDD cage. And it looks great. :D
 
ludi
Lord High Gerbil
Posts: 8646
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:47 pm
Location: Sunny Colorado front range

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:27 pm

A smaller case, if designed well, will facilitate better cooling because there's a lesser volume of air to be exchanged.

I have this enormous steel Antec which is very nice, but even with two 80mm fans front, two 80mm fans back, and the PSU fan, it still has a hard time keeping a Sonic Tower passive sink cooled during the warmer months. And it's not exactly quiet.
Abacus Model 2.5 | Quad-Row FX with 256 Cherry Red Slider Beads | Applewood Frame | Water Cooling by Brita Filtration
 
paulWTAMU
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6257
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:14 am
Location: Dallas, Texas

Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:59 pm

I like my cases big, personally. I hate hate hate working in small places, as I'm large and clumsy :)

However, for most users, as dragmor pointed out, smaller is more desirable, simply because it takes up less space and tends to be easier to fit into decor of a room or the limited confines of a desk.

But I voted for bigger anyway because its all about me! At least when I choose my PC case it is. :wink:
 
UberGerbil
Grand Admiral Gerbil
Posts: 10368
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 3:11 pm

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:14 pm

You know, I hadn't looked at Lan-Li's site in a while. Those mATX Mini-towers with the optical drives mounted sideways are pretty wild, in a "Centre Pompidou" kind of way.

I agree -- you've got two audiences here with very different preferences. Enthusiasts who regularly add and swap components are going to want standardized components and a case that's comfortable to work in; ordinary users want something small and convenient to use because they'll never crack the case (though if they ever need to get it repaired they'll want standardized components, that's not something that usually goes into a personal buying decision as proprietary Dell desktops have shown).

Shuttle demonstrated there is a huge untapped market for small, stylish systems; the problem was that they didn't use standardized motherboards and PSUs, so they were expensive to build, upgrade, or repair. This is why DTX actually has a chance: unlike BTX, it offers something users (as opposed to enthusiasts/builders/OEMs) can actually see and appreciate: smaller systems at reasonable prices.

I don't agree that an "all-in-one" iMac style machine is necessarily the way of the future. There is a niche for those, but the problem is that the one option even the most unsophisticated user decides on separately is the monitor. Any CPU may be fast enough, any HD may be large enough, but they're going to have an opinion on how big they want their monitor -- or how much money they want to spend on it. And it's the one thing they might change later, because they don't have to pop the case to do it. Now, I could see a low-profile system that has a sort of piggy-back VESA mount, so you could use it to replace an LCD monitor stand (hmm, I should probably patent that design idea...). But I think you'll see more and more "Mac Mini" size systems for office use (and the upright equivalent -- the knock against those has always been the optical drive ends up vertical, but these days a lot of IT depts would rather not have any removable storage in client systems anyway -- it's just a way for secrets to leak out and viruses to leak in). And more "pizza box" style low profile HTPC cases (though there you have the issue of limiting yourself to integrated graphics, unless you have a funky right-angle connector for the GPU) which would also fit neatly under an office monitor.

If DTX takes off (and it's far from a done deal), I would expect low-profile / SFF systems to cost no more than an equivalent desktop system -- and if that happens, you shall know the geeks by their "big" mini-tower cases (just like you can tell them now by their racks or full towers). Everybody else and their mothers (especially their mothers) will be running little low-profile systems.
 
Pax-UX
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:33 am
Location: Ireland

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:01 am

Why would you want smaller cases? Miniaturization never did anything for the computer industry. :P

Joking aside, laptops are the future of the industry as most people don't do hardcore gaming sessions. For them wireless internet and the convenience of being able to hide it or take it out when required are key reason for the purchase. It's why it's no longer important if you run Windows or OS/X, they all have web browsers. People want designer OS's... watch this space... Gucic UI, Prada UI, etc.
"What luck for rulers, that men do not think"
 
Norphy
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 3:05 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:25 am

For me, it depends on what I want to use the PC for. For a workhorse, a small factor PC from Dell such as the Optiplex 745 is ideal; it's small, quiet and more than powerful enough to do the job it needs to do at work.

For a personal machine, my current case is plenty big enough although it could do with being a lot quieter.
 
Shintai
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2369
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:43 am
Location: Denmark

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:34 am

My next PC build will be a MicroATX, even if I have to make some compromises. Today I got a standard ATX. And its simply too bulky and useless. We are in 2007, not 1985.
C2D E6600@3Ghz(1.24V) | Asus P5B Deluxe | 4x1GB Kingston Valueram CL5 DDR2-667(1.95V)
Sapphire x1900GT 256MB | Eizo S2110W | 2xSeagate 320GB 7200.10 | Antec Neo He 550W EC
 
41.60l23
Gerbil XP
Posts: 407
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:34 pm
Location: Inside a wheel, powering your QuadFX. =(
Contact:

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:14 pm

Heck, I wouldn't care if my PC looked like Cray-1 as long as it got good PPD =D
 
Saint Zero
Gerbil
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 8:03 pm
Location: SE USA, Leftish.

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:39 pm

I'm of the "Larger is Better" school. I'm not fond of working on small things.
Sure I'll post my rig's stats here. Can anyone read cuneiform?
 
LicketySplit
Gerbil God
Posts: 24502
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Soap Lake, Wa
Contact:

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:50 pm

Saint Zero wrote:
I'm of the "Larger is Better" school. I'm not fond of working on small things.


Me too...these hands of mine dont work well in small spaces..and i think the bigger..newer cases are quieter..the P180 ive got is the quietest case ive ever had. No SFF ive used has been anywhere near as quiet :lol:
Just an old sheepdog waiting for some nasty wolves to show...ive got more than enough teeth left.
 
unreal
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:23 am
Location: 3rd rock from the sun

Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:24 am

I am a gamer and as long as the video cards are getting bigger i will need a bigger case. Have you seen the latest ATI R600 video card? It is a foot long. :o
Use your password like your toothbrush, don't let anyone else use it and change it every six months.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
GZIP: On