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steveho
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New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:34 pm

Can anyone help me out? I am not a novice, but am having an issue that I can't seem to resolve.
Motherboard: MSI B85-G41
Power Supply: Enermax 850W Platimax 80+ Platinum

Problem is that it won't power up. I have the motherboard sitting on the anti-static bag, and the power supply sitting next to it on the desk. I then turn on the supply, and short out the pins for the power switch on the motherboard. The power supply clicks on, and the cpu fan turns maybe 1-2 notches, and the power supply clicks off.

Now, I first thought the supply was tripping out so the Enermax went back under an RMA. Meanwhile, I tried another supply, and the motherboard ran for 2 days, until it fried the supply. This was a Corsair 650W supply. Plugging in an older Antec 550w supply confirmed that the motherboard still boots up.

Then I got the replacement Enermax 850W Platimax supply, and the same thing. It wouldn't boot up, just like the first problem. The CPU fan turns a tiny bit while the power supply shuts down.

So I RMA'd the Motherboard and got another one. Same issue.

SO- do you think the power supply is the problem? Or the motherboard? Or is it just this specific combination? If I downgraded the power supply things would work?

Please, any suggestions welcome!

The Steve
 
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:57 pm

You sure you have all the power connectors plugged in? There are several apart from the main power set, perhaps two 4 plug ones near the CPU.

I went through this a few years ago, they keep changing things. ;)
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steveho
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:08 pm

Yup. the big 24-pin connector, and an 8-pin connector are both plugged in.
 
BIF
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:10 pm

Uh oh.

Unless my knowledge is extremely outdated, it's never a good idea to rest any component on the OUTSIDE of an anti-static bag. You'd be better to lay it on a cardboard box.
 
steveho
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:33 pm

Here's what I don't get:
THe platimax 850W will power up another mobo just fine. (old intel d945 board)

The Antec Basiq 500W supply will power up the B85-G41 just fine.

The Platimax 850W won't power up the B85-G41. What gives? Why won't this work?
 
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:36 pm

BIF wrote:
Uh oh.

Unless my knowledge is extremely outdated, it's never a good idea to rest any component on the OUTSIDE of an anti-static bag. You'd be better to lay it on a cardboard box.


There are two types of anti-static bag:
1. plastic with conductive paint, usually grid-lines or similar, sprayed on one side to create a Faraday cage
2. Metalized PET plastic

The conductive pattern bags are the riskiest if the paint is on the outside, but even these are usually resistive enough to not cause problems.
The PET ones are barely conductive. For mains voltages they can be considered an insulator.
Motherboard shorts usually cause pops/sparks/smoke in my experience but I've never seen it from an anti-static bag - only from metal swarf in a badly machined motherboard tray.

ESD is usually phenomenally high voltage (like 10,000V for all the way up to 10^12V) and almost zero current, which means antistatic bags don't have to be that conductive to be effective.

Back to the OP's problem, I'm not so sure it's related to the antistatic bag, since he mentions that the previous one was running for two days before the PSU died. I doubt he'd be running a PC on a bag for two whole days?
OP, can you confirm?

Random things to look at which haven't been mentioned yet:
  • Faulty surge protector on the 4-way power strip you're using (unclean power)
  • another faulty component that's triggering fuses, like worn/damaged pins on a graphics card fingers or SATA drive power connector
  • the earth in your home mains wiring isn't earthed properly, or you have a faulty appliance with a high-amperage fuse on the same ring/circuit
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steveho
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:07 pm

Ok, it's not on the anti-static bag, and when I power it up with the other power supply it works.
The mobo is sitting on the cardboard box right now.
The Power supply is plugged in directly into an outlet, no strip.

So, the MOBO works with a different PS, and the PS works with a different MOBO.

I'm going crazy! This should work.

I'm thinking it is something weird with the Platimax 850W supply with the MSI B85-G41. But what? Since I've tried 2 supplies, and 2 Mobos. And both supplies work with other mobos and both mobos work with other supplies.
 
steveho
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:17 pm

Sorry, no other components plugged in. Just a stick of RAM, and the CPU and cooler. That's it. No graphics card (using on-board), no monitor. I'll add the rest of the components when the MOBO/PS works.
No speaker, although when I plug one in, I get no beep codes.
I've also swapped power supply cables (the iec cord).
 
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:31 pm

It almost sounds like that PSU isn't compatible with haswell (IIRC, there was something about some PSUs not being able to deal with the very low idle power draw), although the newegg page says it's certified haswell ready.
 
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:49 pm

I've seen this sort of behavior before, where a particular combo of motherboard and PSU just don't play nice together. Haven't seen it in quite a few years though, and I'm a little surprised it is happening, especially given that the PSU in question is supposedly Haswell-certified.

All I can really suggest at this point is trying a different brand/model of PSU.

Edit: The Newegg customer reviews for this PSU really run hot and cold. Lots of 4/5-star, but also a fair number of reports of DOA or other flaky behavior.
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steveho
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:09 pm

Thanks guys! I'm at a loss though. It's an expensive PS, and I'm not sure I can return it. I'll have to contact Enermax and see what they can do.
 
steveho
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:04 pm

I'm going to check another forum to see if anyone has had problems with the platimax. I really think it's somewhere in there, rather than the mobo.
Thanks again!
 
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Re: New Build trouble

Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:47 pm

Are you sure that you're connecting the 8-pin for the CPU 12v, and not the 8-pin that is used for some graphics cards? I'm not sure if the two will actually fit in the other's socket, but I always verify by checking to see that the CPU 12v can separate into two 4-pin connections.
 
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Re: New Build trouble

Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:02 am

The Egg wrote:
Are you sure that you're connecting the 8-pin for the CPU 12v, and not the 8-pin that is used for some graphics cards? I'm not sure if the two will actually fit in the other's socket, but I always verify by checking to see that the CPU 12v can separate into two 4-pin connections.

The 8-pins can be bodged by those who keep on trying. If it's the low-load Haswell issue, add a few more fans.
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Re: New Build trouble

Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:59 am

Hmm... on a build I did a few years ago, I did exactly that -- accidentally connected the PCIe power connector to the CPU power plug on the motherboard. You would think they would be keyed to prevent this, but they're not. At least, they weren't when the PCIe was 6-pin and the CPU one was 4-pin; haven't checked whether this is still the case on systems with more pins on the PCIe and ATX power connectors.

Anyhow, this has the effect of grounding out one of your +12V rails, which can result in exactly the symptoms the OP is describing.

It's a long shot, but definitely worth mentioning.
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Re: New Build trouble

Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:51 am

just brew it! wrote:
accidentally connected the PCIe power connector to the CPU power plug on the motherboard.

I'd go with this.

To all those thinking its Haswell low-power state (C6/C7)....If you read the OP, it only stays on for <3 seconds.
1) The majority (all?) of 8-series mobos have the Haswell low-power sleep state disabled by default.
2) The CPU doesn't start up in low-power sleep state.
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Re: New Build trouble

Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:38 pm

Any update?

just brew it! wrote:
Hmm... on a build I did a few years ago, I did exactly that -- accidentally connected the PCIe power connector to the CPU power plug on the motherboard. You would think they would be keyed to prevent this, but they're not. At least, they weren't when the PCIe was 6-pin and the CPU one was 4-pin; haven't checked whether this is still the case on systems with more pins on the PCIe and ATX power connectors.

Anyhow, this has the effect of grounding out one of your +12V rails, which can result in exactly the symptoms the OP is describing.

It's a long shot, but definitely worth mentioning.


Good catch, this actually still is not fixed and not all cables / boards are keyed to stop it.
 
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Re: New Build trouble

Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:45 pm

Kougar wrote:
Good catch, this actually still is not fixed and not all cables / boards are keyed to stop it.

And won't be, because changing the plug/socket specs will take years. Whatever testing was done was done for that generation was done by computer-savvy people, not clusers. Next go-round on industry specs must include physical testing from Red Bull-addled teenagers taking instruction from similarly-addled teens posted on whatever is the hot social media of the day.
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Re: New Build trouble

Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:00 pm

Also from the "creative ways to ground out your PSU" file, I once received a motherboard that had a bent 3-pin fan header out of the box. The +12V and ground pins on the header were mashed together. Since I wasn't using that header, I didn't notice the bent pins; to all appearances, the mobo was simply DOA. When I finally noticed the bent pins and straightened them out to clear the short, the mobo worked perfectly.
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