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Tech Report is on a LED Bulb stint, so I thought it'd be interesting to get some feedback from everyone. Basically, how common are buzzing LED bulbs?

I've bought three brands of 1600 lumen LED bulbs (I like things very bright!) to test them out. Just a week ago I noticed the local Costco finally added 1600 lumen LED bulbs to it's lighting repertoire. The 1600 lumen LED bulbs from big box hardware stores fall around $25-$30 last I checked so I was pleasantly surprised to see the Costco version was $16. I bought one and used it to replace a CFL that had just burned out and noticed immediately it made a constant, steady electrical buzz, the same sort you'd hear from the buzzing of outdoor sodium streetlights. Tried it in other sockets without change and the buzz persisted even after a few hours use.

I decided to give them a second chance and swapped it out for a second bulb via Costco's excellent return policy, but it also buzzes exactly the same as the first one so it'll be going back. I honestly have to say beware the Feit LED 1600 lumen bulbs from Costco as there's apparently a reason they're so cheap. That said Feit makes a surprising number of bulbs on the market including under other names. I found out the Utilitech brand for instance (which I own and have had zero issues with but it was originally a $29 bulb) is made and distributed by Feit. Anyone else had noise problems with LED bulbs and certain brands, or just in general?

I'll admit that my hearing isn't the best but I've completely outfitted my home with LED bulbs from LumiLife and I've not heard buzzing from any of them.

It's possible that their QC isn't the best and an entire batch of bulbs got through with some defects that Feit didn't care about.

Have you considered using two Cree TW bulbs in place of a single big-box bulb? The improved color rendition will be much more pleasing.

My Crees only buzz on dimmers. I'm even using a dimmer that is officially supported by Cree but they still say it can happen. The dimmer I make them the more they buzz but even at their loudest it isn't enough to hear unless you are very close to them. The Cree endorsed dimmers are MUCH better than the generic ones I used at first which is what opened my eyes to the world of LED buzzing in the first place. Basically, it might not be the bulbs fault.

Many LED and fluorescent bulbs(generally cool white or full spectrum) are terrible for your eyes for multiple reasons anyway.

I only use them outside. In rooms that humans or animals spend time in, incandescents are usually best. No metamerism and no eye damage from the fact that LED bulbs are blue LEDs with a yellow scintillator phosphor. No headaches from PWM flicker.

Warm white LEDs arent as bad but they still have terrible color reproduction even if they have a high CRI. You need to find out their index and most consumer bulbs dont list that and probably arent even tested.

Ironic that governments are banning the one type of light bulb that doesnt damage your eyes while encouraging the use of eye damaging LEDs or mercury filled CFLs

BlackDove wrote:

If you want to know more about the medical reasons that WLEDs are terrible, just google blue light melanopsin intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells. Youll have plenty to read.

I think "terrible" is overstating what is actually known, unless you happen to be sensitive (e.g. migraines). I don't think there's anything conclusive about chronic exposure to short-wavelength light yet; most of the convincing studies appear to be about acute exposure to high levels. But it appears to be an active area of research, so hopefully we'll have some more definitive answers in the next few years.

I've got dimmable LED bulbs, brand long forgotten, in my dining room light, also from Costco (Canada for me)
They tend to hum a little in normal use, but really hum if dimmed.

Maybe we need to get Scott as the expert to push these companies to include a noise rating on the packaging

BlackDove wrote:

Many WLED and fluorescent bulbs(generally cool white or full spectrum) are terrible for your eyes for multiple reasons anyway.
I only use them outside. In rooms that humans or animals spend time in, incandescents are usually best. No metamerism and no eye damage from the fact that WLED bulbs are blue LEDs with a yellow scintillator phosphor. No headaches from PWM flicker.
Warm white LEDs arent as bad but they still have terrible color reproduction even if they have a high CRI. You need to find out their metamerism index and most consumer bulbs dont list that and probably arent even tested.
Ironic that governments are banning the one type of light bulb that doesnt damage your eyes while encouraging the use of eye damaging LEDs or mercury filled CFLs.
If you want to know more about the medical reasons that WLEDs are terrible, just google blue light melanopsin intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells. Youll have plenty to read.

So far I've only been able to find one reputable study. I noticed a few things about it:

• They used albino rats which are apparently more suceptable to retinal damage. This is very good to see measurable results for scientific study, but the average human eye might not be damaged in the same way
• The rats were hit with 750 lumens of light for 12 hours each day from a distance of 20cm. Wow.
• The LEDs used had a color temperature of 6500k.
• There were no results from incandecent bulbs for comparison

750 lumens from 20 centimeters away is going to be painful for any period of time, from any type of light. I can't imagine having to tolerate that for 12 hours straight. Typical consumer bulbs are also 2700k, which is a far cry from 6500k, and likely has a wildly different color spectrum. All that said, it's still mildly concerning, and enough to give me pause. It's certainly worth researching futher.

I have not noticed a buzzing issue with any of mine, but if it is a high frequency buzz (akin to CRT television whine) I stopped being able to hear that about a decade ago. Too many loud rock concerts and too much mowing the lawn without hearing protection when I was younger...

Regarding the health issues, it seems to me that unless you spend a lot of time staring directly at your light bulbs, you are probably exposing your retinas to way more short wavelength light just from using your computer monitor.

The problems with LED bulbs are not caused by the amount of light they produce, or even the correlated color temperature.

6500K bulbs are usually called daylight, and the standard white point is 6500K(D65), however direct sunlight is actually 5500K at sea level. Overcast sunlights CCT is 6500K. The spectrum of the sun is also mostly red to green light which is why it appears yellow to us.

Also, AC LEDs have a 60Hz flicker. Just wave your hand back and forth when lit by one and youll see the strobing. Like the PWM flicker of cheap LED backlit monitors, it can give you headaches even if you dont get migraines.

Fluorescent and LED bulbs have been known to cause issues for years but they are marketed as being so efficient that people seldom hear any negatives. Theyre great for illuminating places you dont spend time in or as security lights lol.

I put a nondimmable offbrand LED bulb into a dimmable socket (It was $9 for two of them, about two years ago now). It buzzes pretty loudly when warm (buzzing is 60Hz), even with the dimmer all the way up. A brandname nondimmable LED bulb doesn't buzz in the same socket. Neither buzzes in a nondimmable socket.

Still can't find a photo of it, if I had a smartphone I'd have taken one. Same bulb in different packaging & higher color range http://www.amazon.com/Feit-BPAG1600DM-L ... B00J0H202A

The Feit bulbs sold at Costco are rated as dimmer compatible, though I used them in normal sockets. It was a new pallet of product so maybe it's just a bad initial batch, but still I won't be buying anymore of them anytime soon. JBI, the buzz is electrical in tone and is not a high-pitch. I can hear it five feet away, at ten feet it's low enough that I can't be sure if I'm imagining it or not. But for an expensive bulb that should theoretically last well beyond a year I'm not willing to tolerate it.

Regarding health, the colors don't bother me. If anything I see too much yellow. It's the brightness level that I pay attention to as staring at a decently bright display in a dark room for a hours on end is very bad for the eyes. When I started replacing all the bulbs with 1600+ lumen ones I noticed immediately that any eye strain or the very rare eye-induced headache went away. The funny thing is after getting acclimated even the very-well lit rooms now seem just as "dark" as they did to begin with, but at least my eyes aren't straining as much. If I can't open a window to let in natural sunlight then I want the room to be as bright as possible. Considering how "dim" standard lighting levels are in relation to outdoor daylight (even a heavy overcast is way brighter than indoor lighting), it's genuinely is better for the eyes to brighten things up.

My transformers buzz/whine.

the LED units themselves are silent.

In my experience, DC current for LED's does not buzz. If you have LEDs that include transformers because the fitting is AC current, they could buzz - but over here in Europe the LED's are direct replacements for GU10 halogen 40W DC spotlights.

My parents have Cree LEDs all over their house (standard socket, 120VAC). No buzzing whatsoever, and the color looks better than CFLs. That said, the last I checked, we'd had a few bulb failures (of a lot of bulbs though).

BlackDove wrote:

In a way, youre correct just brew it. Most monitors, TVs, tablets and phones sold today are WLED backlit. As a result of that, their whit points are often closer to 8000K and thats very blue. They not only have worse color than RGB LED or CCFL backlit monitors, but they do damage your eyes a lot more.

I do tend to dial back both the color temperature and brightness quite a bit. The defaults on most LCDs just look way too bright and blue to me.

Kougar wrote:

Still can't find a photo of it, if I had a smartphone I'd have taken one. Same bulb in different packaging & higher color range http://www.amazon.com/Feit-BPAG1600DM-L ... B00J0H202A

The Feit bulbs sold at Costco are rated as dimmer compatible, though I used them in normal sockets. It was a new pallet of product so maybe it's just a bad initial batch, but still I won't be buying anymore of them anytime soon. JBI, the buzz is electrical in tone and is not a high-pitch. I can hear it five feet away, at ten feet it's low enough that I can't be sure if I'm imagining it or not. But for an expensive bulb that should theoretically last well beyond a year I'm not willing to tolerate it.

Regarding health, the colors don't bother me. If anything I see too much yellow. It's the brightness level that I pay attention to as staring at a decently bright display in a dark room for a hours on end is very bad for the eyes. When I started replacing all the bulbs with 1600+ lumen ones I noticed immediately that any eye strain or the very rare eye-induced headache went away. The funny thing is after getting acclimated even the very-well lit rooms now seem just as "dark" as they did to begin with, but at least my eyes aren't straining as much. If I can't open a window to let in natural sunlight then I want the room to be as bright as possible. Considering how "dim" standard lighting levels are in relation to outdoor daylight (even a heavy overcast is way brighter than indoor lighting), it's genuinely is better for the eyes to brighten things up.

Actually your kinda proved yourself wrong. The bright display is bad for you for the reasons i discussed in my steam thread. Having bright lights on in the room doesnt prevent damage caused by LEDs

BlackDove wrote:

If you compensate for the bad quality SPD and color rendering of LEDs by over illuminating a room(common) youre just damaging your eyes more.

I don't think it is quite that simple. If the room is more brightly lit, your pupils will shrink to cut the overall amount of light entering your eye. If the spectrum of the room illumination is "better" than that of the display you're staring at, it *might* be a net win. So the correct answer is probably "it depends".

just brew it! wrote:

BlackDove wrote:

If you compensate for the bad quality SPD and color rendering of LEDs by over illuminating a room(common) youre just damaging your eyes more.

I don't think it is quite that simple. If the room is more brightly lit, your pupils will shrink to cut the overall amount of light entering your eye. If the spectrum of the room illumination is "better" than that of the display you're staring at, it *might* be a net win. So the correct answer is probably "it depends".

CRI doesnt tell the whole story, and as this video demonstrates, high CRI LEDs costing thousands are still inferior to halogens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... tISsunRpf0

You might also notice that museums and nice reataurants also use incandescents for these reasons.

BlackDove wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

BlackDove wrote:

If you compensate for the bad quality SPD and color rendering of LEDs by over illuminating a room(common) youre just damaging your eyes more.

I don't think it is quite that simple. If the room is more brightly lit, your pupils will shrink to cut the overall amount of light entering your eye. If the spectrum of the room illumination is "better" than that of the display you're staring at, it *might* be a net win. So the correct answer is probably "it depends".

If hes causing pupil constriction by using WLEDs to make him see his WLED backlit monitor less, hes still getting plenty of blue light.

And that's why I qualified it with "if the spectrum of the room illumination..."

If he's got soft white LED room lights in combination with a high color temp setting on the monitor, it's still a net win. Even if his room lights are "daylight" LED it might *still* be a net win -- unless he's sitting in a bare room with white walls, or he's staring directly at the light bulbs, the spectrum emitted by the room lights isn't the spectrum entering his eyes.

My monitor is a CCFL 30" IPS display at only 60% brightness level. I like to preserve the blacks in movies as well as keep the color gamut as accurate as I can.

But the debate about how harmful light is questionable and it's a side-topic. X-ray radiation from cathode-ray tubes and UV radiation from florescent bulbs are both real and proven emissions, but haven't had much effect on people despite CRTs being in widespread family use for 50+ years now. Until proven otherwise I would tend to view the question of harmful effects from LED lighting as a lower risk factor than either of those. Under-lighting rooms and eye-strain from reading small text in low light can just as equally result in permanent vision impairment. Even factors such as obesity, high-fat diets, smoking, and sunlight exposure can reportedly contribute to macular degeneration, so blue-light exposure just seems to be another risk factor.

Anyway I just don't want LED bulbs to buzz, I find it extremely distracting and even if I tune it out it becomes an unconscious irritant. Given the cost of LED bulbs nobody should have to deal with a steady omnipresent buzzing from one because they shaved a few cents off the electrical components. It was bad enough that most CFLs already cut corners/costs by using lower grade ballasts not rated for the heat levels they were expected to operate within when alternatives were available.

I noticed every once in a while my Philips 1680 lumen lamp would buzz on a dimmer, but it was very rare so it didn't bother me. I swapped it out for a 1600L Cree for unrelated reasons and it buzzed like crazy, so I swapped it out for a different identical Cree and that one has been problem free ever since.

Oddly enough the buzzing Cree I took out went into a larger fixture with a second 1600L Cree and the same model dimmer and it doesn't buzz at all in it's current home.

I wanted to contribute to this post. I am very sensitive to light flicker. I get migraines and very sore eyes if exposed to it. I started replacing all the lamps in my house with LED's a few years ago hearing they do not flicker. I purchased them at Costco and Home Depot in the U.S.A. because the cost was much less to buy them there. I was quiet happy with them besides a few of the Cree brand burning out early. I was told it may have been due to them being in enclosed fixtures. I have also used Feit LED's and they are flicker free and no buzzing either. Now the interesting part. I did buy 2 GE LED's from Walmart in Canada last year. Only recently did I notice they do buzz. I did some research online and read that some LED's do flicker if they use a cheaper driver component. I also noticed that those lamps were giving me headaches. They were in the downstairs hallway so I rarely spent any time under them. I went to Home Depot in Canada last night and bought some Philips LED's just for an experiment. Turns out I got a headache and sore eyes from them. I went to the U.S.A. today and bought some more from Costco USA (Feit) and they are flicker free, silent and I get absolutely no headaches at all from them. Not sure if the U.S.A. has higher standards on lighting but seems that way.

randy123 wrote:

I wanted to contribute to this post. I am very sensitive to light flicker. I get migraines and very sore eyes if exposed to it. I started replacing all the lamps in my house with LED's a few years ago hearing they do not flicker. I purchased them at Costco and Home Depot in the U.S.A. because the cost was much less to buy them there. I was quiet happy with them besides a few of the Cree brand burning out early. I was told it may have been due to them being in enclosed fixtures. I have also used Feit LED's and they are flicker free and no buzzing either. Now the interesting part. I did buy 2 GE LED's from Walmart in Canada last year. Only recently did I notice they do buzz. I did some research online and read that some LED's do flicker if they use a cheaper driver component. I also noticed that those lamps were giving me headaches. They were in the downstairs hallway so I rarely spent any time under them. I went to Home Depot in Canada last night and bought some Philips LED's just for an experiment. Turns out I got a headache and sore eyes from them. I went to the U.S.A. today and bought some more from Costco USA (Feit) and they are flicker free, silent and I get absolutely no headaches at all from them. Not sure if the U.S.A. has higher standards on lighting but seems that way.

Or maybe Feit LED bulbs are just better than the GE or Philips ones. FWIW I've been the most satisfied with the Feit ones too. In my experience they have more even light distribution and are more reliable than the Crees, and the 60W equivalent ones are OK for use in enclosed fixtures (FWIW a couple of mine have been in enclosed fixtures for a couple of years, and are still going strong).

In Canada here

Have quite a few phillips various kinds dimable, non-dimable, from home depot, some of them hum some do not. I find the ones on dimmers to hum/buzz more and louder.

Have some fiets some of them hum, have some dollar store ones 3000K can't remember name non-dimable on a non-dimable switch and they are about the worse.

Have a few crees i should check them. Some of the bulbs I can hear 8 feet away, some I have to be 1 foot away.

randy123 wrote:

I went to Home Depot in Canada last night and bought some Philips LED's just for an experiment. Turns out I got a headache and sore eyes from them. I went to the U.S.A. today and bought some more from Costco USA (Feit) and they are flicker free, silent and I get absolutely no headaches at all from them. Not sure if the U.S.A. has higher standards on lighting but seems that way.

I think it's more luck of the draw and quality suppliers than base level standards... some LED bulbs sold in the US are cheaply made, and others are not. And since they all come from China the quality control on early batches is probably suspect.

In the time since I created this thread I've bought a few more 1600 lumen LED bulbs including a very interesting pair of shoplight LED tubes, which in of themselves made a drastic improvement on the kitchen lighting. They offered twice the luminosity with a whiter light at half the wattage of the fluorescent tubes that burned out. So far I haven't had any noise issues from the tubes or other bulbs, but that said I avoided buying anymore Feit 100w equivalent LED bulbs from Costco. (I did get the shoplight LEDs from Costco). Honestly I may just take them with the next time I move, the improvement on the kitchen lighting is still amazing from them.