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scott784
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Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS410

Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:41 pm

Recently, I was talking to my step father about two Dell computers that he owns. Specifically, he's got a Dell XPS 420 and an XPS410. I have a spare SSD that I intend to give him for his 420. However, I reminded him that if the SSD is upgraded, it may well be advised to upgrade the graphics card(s) as well on the XPS420 (any maybe on his XPS 410). So here's my question, what is the best graphics card upgrade for these older computers, here in 2015?

Obviously, we have to keep in mind that these PCs have all of their original parts. That being said, there would be limitations (not just with the cost) but also factoring in the older hardware on these two older PCs. He is only a very light gamer to include a racing game he owns but does much more with multi-media such as many u-tubes, etc.

So what would be a good graphics card that would make economic sense on this older XPS 420, keeping in mind the older PSU and other hardware on this box? And what about an old XPS410 with all its original parts? The intent is to replace the graphics card(s) and also swap out the old hard drive(s) with new SSD(s) on both of these computers (no other upgrades). I'm good with advising him on the SSD(s), I just need advice on the best graphics card(s) for these boxes with their original parts still in the PCs.

One thing I am most concerned about (as a limiting factor) are the original power supply units in these PCs and how these older PSUs may limit the upgrade options as it relates to the graphic cards. For example, I think the XPS410 came with a 375W PSU. I am unsure of the PSU specs on the 420. Many thanks for suggestions here.

PS I've got an older XPS410 myself that I upgraded a long time ago (to a Nvidia GeForce 650Ti) with good advice on this forum. But in my case, I had already upgraded other parts as well to include a newer PSU. So the situation is a little different as it relates to my step father's PCs. Again, he does not want to spend any other money beyond graphics cards and new SSD(s).
 
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:55 pm

I believe something like a 750ti would work nicely in a computer like this, and it is a very low power card which should work fine with the original power supply. I guess the big question is, does your dad plan to do any actual gaming on it? If not, a 750ti may be a bit overkill.
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:58 pm

A pdf on Dell's website says the 420 has either a 375 or 425 Watt psu, so a GTX 950 or 750 Ti could be put in the XPS 420.

Edit: The 420 has a BTX motherboard :o. I've never heard of a computer that actually shipped with that
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:07 pm

Specifications are in Appendix A (page 173) of the owner's manual.
Dell wrote:
Processor type: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo, Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme (dual-core processor), Intel® Core™ 2 Quad (quad-core processor)
Memory Type dual-channel 667 and 800-MHz DDR2
Memory connectors four
Maximum memory 8 GB
Chipset Intel® X38 Express Chipset/ ICH9R
Video Type PCI Express Gen2 x16
PCI Express Connector: one x1, one x16, one x8 (electrically configured for an x4 card)

DC power supply:
Wattage 375 W or 425 W
Height 45.03 cm (17.08 in)
Width 187 cm (7.04 in)
Depth 450 cm (17.7 in)
Weight 12.7 kg
The 425-watt unit can provide a respectable 410 watts on the +12 V rails. The 375-watt unit can provide 360 watts on the +12 V rails.
You should be fine with any mid-range graphics card, though you may need a molex to PCIe power adapter that ships in the box with many graphics cards if you get something as powerful as a $200 -20MIR Radeon R9-380 4 GiB or a $290 GeForce GTX970 3½+½ GiB. If you're not intending to play demanding 3D games, something like a $100 -20MIR Radeon R7-260X 2 GiB would be a good choice.

If these old PCs don't already have the maximum 4x2 GiB of PC2-6400 memory that they can support, you might look around your local parts recycler to see if you can find some cheap 2 GiB DDR2 DIMMs. They're $35/pair for new ones at Newegg.
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:56 pm

1) Are you sure your step father actually needs a new GPU? What GPUs are currently in these machines? If he's already playing said racing game and has no intentions to play anything else newer or more demanding I see no reason to spend the money on a GPU. I'd probably recommend making sure you've got all RAM slots full first.

2) Check to see what type of available PCIe power connectors the power supplies have (if any). Looks like on page 164 & 165 of the manual JAE linked there should be at least one 6-pin connector. If they don't have any you'll be relegated to a GTX 750Ti for $110 at best. If the machines DO have a 6-pin PCIe power cable there's a really good deal on this GTX 950 for $130 right now. The GTX950 is about 60% faster than the GTX750Ti.

3) Make sure to check the maximum allowable length of graphics card the machines support before purchasing. The GTX750Ti is basically just as long as the PCIe x16 slot so it should fit any computer as long as there's enough room for the double slot height. However the GTX950 I listed is 10.1" long. There are shorter options but they're mostly the same price as a GTX960.
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scott784
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:11 pm

I appreciate all the replies here. I learned that one of the best upgrades to breath new life into an older computer is a SSD. But there is also good reasons/desire to install better graphics cards in these old boxes too, even though they will not be used for anything beyond light gaming). I know this from my own experience with an older XPS410 that I own (upgraded with a GTX 650 Ti some time back).

The XPS410 came with the now older PCI slots (3 of them). But it also has 3 PCI express slots (x1 x4 and x16). Having looked at that GTX 750 Ti, I think that one might work very nice in these old Dells that my step father owns. I know for sure it would go in the PCIe 16 slot on the XPS410. And while I don't have the specs in front of me (with the XPS 420), I am thinking it would be very similar to the 410? I won't have a chance to look at my step dad's computers until next weekend, but I am thinking (perhaps) that GTX 750 Ti just might be a good (and safe) option --perhaps for both his 420 and 410.

And the nice thing is, these parts (in addition to new SSDs) can be used in newer builds in the future. Most of all, I am pleased to learn that the older PSUs will not present a problem--because that was one of my biggest concerns with his 420 and 410. Thanks again for the replies here as well as any other advice.
 
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:39 pm

I second JAE for the $200 Radeon R9-380 4 GiB. That was my first thought when I saw the OP.
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:57 pm

If your old power supply is missing the required plugs, something like this or this can provide the PCIe power connections that a modern graphics card requires. A $2 cable adapter is a very easy fix. XFX includes a couple of those adapters in the box with their Radeon R9-380 4 GiB, but the cheaper cards no longer include them.
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scott784
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:31 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
If your old power supply is missing the required plugs, something like this or this can provide the PCIe power connections that a modern graphics card requires. A $2 cable adapter is a very easy fix. XFX includes a couple of those adapters in the box with their Radeon R9-380 4 GiB, but the cheaper cards no longer include them.


The XPS 410 has a PCIe 16 slot so it appears that should work fine for the GTX 750 Ti. As for the PSU, I am thinking all the XPS 410(s) came with a 375W PSU. And I am guessing the 420 came with the same or perhaps something like a 425W PSU. Either way, it appears the PSU is not an issue from feedback on this forum.

Perhaps that GTX 750 Ti will work fine in both of these boxes. As far as the Radeon R9-380 4 GiB, it looks to be a lot more expensive. And since he is not a heavy gamer, it probably would not make good sense from a money standpoint, even if it would work in either the 410 or 420 with cable adapters.
 
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:05 pm

$190-20MIR +$2 Radeon R9-380 4 GiB provides significantly better gaming performance than $110 GeForce GTX750Ti 2 GiB or $140 -10MIR GeForce GTX950 2 GiB or $210 -20MIR GeForce GTX960 4 GiB. What are the native resolutions of your step father's monitors?
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:21 pm

Has anyone looked up the specs of these systems? The 410 most likely uses a Conroe-era Core 2 Duo (E6600), while the 420 likely uses a Wolfdale-era Core 2 Duo (E8400).

These are decent CPUs for every day use, but they are pretty outdated for gaming (more so the one in the 410). I don't think I'd splurge for a 750ti for the 410, and the 420's CPU would still be a bottleneck in most games. Unless your systems have higher-end CPUs (Core 2 Quads for example), I would go with a lesser GPU for the 410, and only go with a 750ti for the 420 if you find a good price.

Of course, it really depends on your budget, the games being played, how picky he is, and if he's likely to upgrade\replace either system in the near future. If its likely that one or the other will be replaced, get the best bang for the buck GPU you can afford, as it will be more useful in a faster system (GTX 950 seems decent for $140 before rebates at newegg). It also greatly depends on what is IN the systems right now. He could have a Titan in there for all we know. :lol:
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:17 am

ozzuneoj wrote:
I don't think I'd splurge for a $110 GeForce GTX750Ti 2 GiB. I would go with a lesser GPU.
There are no lesser GPUs worth buying for gaming.
Last edited by JustAnEngineer on Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:22 am

ozzuneoj wrote:
Has anyone looked up the specs of these systems? The 410 most likely uses a Conroe-era Core 2 Duo (E6600), while the 420 likely uses a Wolfdale-era Core 2 Duo (E8400). These are decent CPUs for every day use, but they are pretty outdated for gaming (more so the one in the 410). I don't think I'd splurge for a 750ti for the 410, and the 420's CPU would still be a bottleneck in most games. Unless your systems have higher-end CPUs (Core 2 Quads for example), I would go with a lesser GPU for the 410, and only go with a 750ti for the 420 if you find a good price.

My XPS 420 has a Q6600 CPU, and it shipped with a GeForce 8800 GT (and the 425W PSU). Some years ago, I swapped the GeForce for an AMD Radeon 6850, and noticed a decent step up in graphics performance, which enabled me to play newer CoD titles (Black Ops, etc.) comfortably. The 425W PSU comes with a 6-pin PCI-E power cord, apart from what is supplied through the x16 socket itself.

So, I think its important to understand what the original spec of the XPS was. 8800 GT and GTX cards got the PSU bumped up to 425W, and lower cards (8600 GTS I think) came with the 375W PSU. And then balance the upgrade with the rest of the system's performance, to get the best bang for the buck.
 
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:22 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
ozzuneoj wrote:
I don't think I'd splurge for a $110 GeForce GTX750Ti 2 GiB. I would go with a lesser GPU.
There are no lesser GPUs worth buying for gaming.

What games are we talking about though? I agree the 750 ti is a great card, but if he's playing a game from 2005 on an 8800gt along side a core 2 duo it'd be a bit out of place to put a $110 graphics card in it.

We need more info. :P
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scott784
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:39 pm

ozzuneoj wrote:
Has anyone looked up the specs of these systems? The 410 most likely uses a Conroe-era Core 2 Duo (E6600), while the 420 likely uses a Wolfdale-era Core 2 Duo (E8400).

These are decent CPUs for every day use, but they are pretty outdated for gaming (more so the one in the 410). I don't think I'd splurge for a 750ti for the 410, and the 420's CPU would still be a bottleneck in most games. Unless your systems have higher-end CPUs (Core 2 Quads for example), I would go with a lesser GPU for the 410, and only go with a 750ti for the 420 if you find a good price.

Of course, it really depends on your budget, the games being played, how picky he is, and if he's likely to upgrade\replace either system in the near future. If its likely that one or the other will be replaced, get the best bang for the buck GPU you can afford, as it will be more useful in a faster system (GTX 950 seems decent for $140 before rebates at newegg). It also greatly depends on what is IN the systems right now. He could have a Titan in there for all we know. :lol:


I haven't been to his house this week to look at the specs, but I know both computers have a Core 2 Duo. The 410 is a Conroe era CPU Q6600; and I believe it has a 375W PSU (which appeared to be standard with these 410s from Dell). And the 420 may be the Wolf-dale era; and I am thinking (fairly sure) it has a 425W PSU. He received the 410 in late 2006, and got the 420 about one year later.

He is not a heavy gamer by a long shot. So it's a balancing act of getting something that these boxes can handle while not getting anything overly expensive either. Even a 750 ti might be a bit more than he needs; however, by the same token, it hardly seems worthwhile to bother with new cards if he spends too little.......particularly if the parts can be salvaged and used in future builds. From the feedback on here, it appears either box can handle the 750 ti (with their existing PSUs), although perhaps a little more justifiable on the 420.
 
ozzuneoj
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Re: Need advice on new graphics cards for Dell XPS 420 & XPS

Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:59 am

Just throwing this out there, but if you want a basic GPU upgrade for an older system like the 410 it's worth checking evga's B-Stock page. I picked up a couple of GT 740 2GB GDDR5 cards for $45 each a few months back. They aren't going to perform anywhere near a 750 Ti, but for that price they don't have to and they'd still be a massive upgrade from an 8800 gt or anything from that era. They also don't use much power. Good for basic gaming... way better than any IGP.

Just make sure the expectations are realistic. You won't want to give the impression that this will allow this PC to play every new game flawlessly. It's a low end GPU still, and the CPU will be quite limiting. Even a Q6600 quad is pretty limiting due to its fairly low single threaded performance (2.4Ghz on an original Core 2 can only do so much).
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