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Deanjo
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:41 pm

Topinio wrote:
I've read the full terms, and they do not state that the user agrees by the act of RMA'ing that they have not sent in a CPU with "damages due to external causes, including improper use, problems with electrical power, accident, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing"

What the RMAíng user agrees to are terms that say

  1. "[t]his limited warranty does not cover" such damages;
  2. AMD will replace a processor covered by the warranty;
  3. AMD will not replace a processor "if AMD determines the processor is not covered by the limited warranty".
It's pathetically written T&C's, and I'd be astounded if auxy could be considered to have committed any fraud based on them; she'd've not actually been entitled to a replacement under them, but not being entitled to a replacement apparently doesn't stop them giving her one.

Deanjo wrote:
By omitting how the damage was done that is concealment.

Doesn't matter for the 2 AMD APU's, by my reading.

Intel, I don't know the score there...


What she did is called silent fraud. What is defined as silent fraud is this (with an example).

Silent Fraud

Silent fraud occurs when a defendant fails to disclose material facts. To establish this, plaintiff has the burden of proving each of the following elements by clear and convincing evidence:

The defendant failed to disclose one or more material facts about the subject matter of the claim;

The defendant had actual knowledge of the fact(s);

The defendant’s failure to disclose the fact(s) caused the plaintiff to have a false impression;

When the defendant failed to disclose the fact(s), the defendant knew the failure would create a false impression;

When defendant failed to disclose the fact(s), defendant intended that plaintiff rely on the resulting false impression;

The plaintiff relied on the false impression; and

The plaintiff was damaged as a result of the reliance upon the false impression.

For example, where a defendant sells a plaintiff a car where the defendant knows the odometer had been rolled back, but the defendant does not mention to the plaintiff that the odometer is not accurate, the defendant knows that it is highly probable that the plaintiff would rely upon the mileage figure from the odometer in making the decision to purchase the car. It is likely that the defendant's silence under these circumstances would support a subsequent action for silent fraud.


Auxy's action on the delidded CPU's hit all the criteria.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:00 pm

Deanjo wrote:
...

Auxy's action on the delidded CPU's hit all the criteria.

Just to play devil's advocate here... if the damage was as obvious as auxy claims, it seems plausible (if not probable) that whoever processed the RMA *knew* the CPU had been de-lidded, and simply didn't care. If this was the case, there was no "false impression" created.

Also, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, anyone who has used an aftermarket HSF, and not disclosed this fact as part of the RMA process, has violated the letter of the warranty terms. Given that an aftermarket HSF typically leaves no physical evidence, this would seem to be an even *more* egregious instance of concealment.
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:12 pm

Deanjo wrote:
Quit trying to justify being a scam artist. A few months back you were screaming about your dealership how dishonest and what a scam your dealership was when they refused to replace your tires for normal wear. They are infinitely more honest than you are. You are by very definition a hypocrite.

I hope one day one of the manufactures processing your RMA's nail you with mail fraud.


Deanjo, while I agree with your stance on the subject I don't think we really need to worry about it too much. Reading Auxy's many tales of woe on these forums it would appear that karma is already taking care of her.


オークシ wrote:
I didn't even glue the heatspreaders back on or anything like that -- although the thought crossed my mind -- because I felt that would be too fraudulent.


I'll take that as an admission that what you did do was fraudulent then.
 
auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:14 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate here... if the damage was as obvious as auxy claims, it seems plausible (if not probable) that whoever processed the RMA *knew* the CPU had been de-lidded, and simply didn't care. If this was the case, there was no "false impression" created.
I am not particularly concerned with other people's opinions of me or my actions, but since you boys seem to be having fun I'll supply some details. All of the processors were returned in the original packaging with the heatspreader resting on the CPU in the package. If they even so much as jiggled the box it should have been immediately obvious that the IHS was no longer "I".

Maybe they just gave me the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was an accident. (⌒▽⌒)
 
Topinio
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:25 pm

auxy wrote:
Maybe they just gave me the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was an accident. (⌒▽⌒)

Maybe. Nothing in the T&C's says you were entitled to the replacement, nothing says you agreed or confirmed your APUs were not damaged, nothing says you had to tell them if they were :roll:

All that AMD's T&C's made you agree to was that the warranty did not cover such damages and to accept return of the processor to you, at your cost, if AMD determined the processor is not covered. :lol:
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Topinio
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:37 pm

Deanjo wrote:
What she did is called silent fraud. What is defined as silent fraud is this (with an example).

Silent Fraud

Silent fraud occurs when a defendant fails to disclose material facts. To establish this, plaintiff has the burden of proving each of the following elements by clear and convincing evidence:

The defendant failed to disclose one or more material facts about the subject matter of the claim;


Auxy's action on the delidded CPU's hit all the criteria.

IANAL, but I don't see anywhere in the AMD RMA T&C's or the process / web form that asks the one submitting the RMA to disclose any facts / make any representations.

If the T&C's that auxy agreed to said something like "This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including [...] and you cannot claim in such cases" or "you can submit a warranty request only for products covered by these terms and not subject to the above exclusions" then I'd obviously agree it would've been silent fraud.

As it is, IMO it's over the intended line and ethically dubious, but so would be sending in one that had been used with a good HSF so it's a personal call of whether and how far one crosses that line.
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coolflame57
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:19 pm

Getting back (slightly more) to the original topic, how are your temps with the card?
 
Deanjo
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:33 pm

Topinio wrote:
Deanjo wrote:
What she did is called silent fraud. What is defined as silent fraud is this (with an example).

Silent Fraud

Silent fraud occurs when a defendant fails to disclose material facts. To establish this, plaintiff has the burden of proving each of the following elements by clear and convincing evidence:

The defendant failed to disclose one or more material facts about the subject matter of the claim;


Auxy's action on the delidded CPU's hit all the criteria.

IANAL, but I don't see anywhere in the AMD RMA T&C's or the process / web form that asks the one submitting the RMA to disclose any facts / make any representations.

If the T&C's that auxy agreed to said something like "This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including [...] and you cannot claim in such cases" or "you can submit a warranty request only for products covered by these terms and not subject to the above exclusions" then I'd obviously agree it would've been silent fraud.

As it is, IMO it's over the intended line and ethically dubious, but so would be sending in one that had been used with a good HSF so it's a personal call of whether and how far one crosses that line.


The terms and conditions are on the warranty card not the RMA process. If the terms were unacceptable for the warranty she had the full right to return the product un-used.
 
auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:43 pm

coolflame57 wrote:
Getting back (slightly more) to the original topic, how are your temps with the card?

Temps are fine -- higher than my original card, but fine -- but now it's doing this thing where the display connected to it goes black and the whole machine hangs up, which is very similar to what the second card was doing. It's not related to load this time; I ran Furmark while I went to Walmart and it was fine. I think it might be driver related but I'm not super sure. Gonna test it here shortly, but as an intermittent problem, it's hard to test...

Real tired of this mess. _| ̄|○
 
Tirk
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:07 pm

auxy wrote:
Temps are fine -- higher than my original card, but fine -- but now it's doing this thing where the display connected to it goes black and the whole machine hangs up, which is very similar to what the second card was doing. It's not related to load this time; I ran Furmark while I went to Walmart and it was fine. I think it might be driver related but I'm not super sure. Gonna test it here shortly, but as an intermittent problem, it's hard to test...

Real tired of this mess. _| ̄|○


Might want to check out your windows settings. I had a problem with black screens and not resuming from suspend and it was a broken option in Windows 10 I had to change, I wish I could remember which exact option it was but you can definitely find it by googling the symptoms. It has something to do with the way windows 10 suspends, turns off the screen, and it not working correctly with some hardware. It wasn't driver related but I thought that too when it first happened hehe.

On that note I still have a problem on one of my computers where the computer sends audio over display port. After the screen turns back on from being idle, I lose sound and have to restart the computer for it to resume sending sound over display port. Have any of you encountered this problem and have a fix or do I just have to buy some good old speakers for that system instead of being cheap and using the speakers in the monitor lol.
 
auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:21 pm

Hmm. I see some stuff about hybrid sleep, but this isn't a PC sleep wakeup issue, it's only the monitor that is asleep. VESA DPMS power down. I dunno if that makes any sense to be related. Also the video feed cut off on me while watching a video earlier. Pretty weird...
 
auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:40 am

Well, the replacement 290X has started doing the same thing the previous one was doing. When I load it, all the monitors connected to the 290X immediately go black and then after a few seconds the whole machine hangs up, requiring a hard reset.

I'm so tired of this. I'm going to ask Sapphire to either pay for the shipping or send me a new product.

It has to be the GPU, because if it were the power supply or some other component it would have been doing this as soon as I got it. Also the GTX 580 that I'm borrowing from a friend would be exhibiting the same problems but it runs Furmark just fine. It's running Furmark as I type this. So it has to be the graphics card.
 
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:59 am

auxy wrote:
It has to be the GPU, because if it were the power supply or some other component it would have been doing this as soon as I got it.

Not necessarily true. Poor power delivery can slowly fry the card's power section.

Also, you probably have good case ventilation, but nevertheless, have you checked for any heat dead spots around the card's back?
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auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:49 pm

morphine wrote:
auxy wrote:
It has to be the GPU, because if it were the power supply or some other component it would have been doing this as soon as I got it.
Not necessarily true. Poor power delivery can slowly fry the card's power section.
I guess, but how would I even test this... (´Д⊂ヽ My PSU is really old, but it was top-tier when I got it.
morphine wrote:
Also, you probably have good case ventilation, but nevertheless, have you checked for any heat dead spots around the card's back?
It's an open-air testbed with a 24" box fan blowing over it.
 
Ryu Connor
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:17 pm

auxy wrote:
I guess, but how would I even test this... (´Д⊂ヽ My PSU is really old, but it was top-tier when I got it.

It's an open-air testbed with a 24" box fan blowing over it.


Everything in computing ages like milk.

As power supplies age they begin to degrade.

As for testing. A multimeter would be one way.
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morphine
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:20 pm

Another very relevant question, do you tend to have brownouts in your home? That is a very surefire way to murder electronics. Blackouts are fine, but a drop in voltage is by far the worst.
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morphine
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:24 pm

I just remembered, a friend went through multiple RMAs of a 7850 (7970? can't recall) until I finally convinced him it was the PSU, something I had said since the start. He eventually came to that conclusion on RMA #3, and to this day I still make fun of him.
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:24 pm

morphine wrote:
I just remembered, a friend went through multiple RMAs of a 7850 (7970? can't recall) until I finally convinced him it was the PSU, something I had said since the start. He eventually came to that conclusion on RMA #3, and to this day I still make fun of him.


That's what friends are for, right? Good memories :D
 
auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:35 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:
As power supplies age they begin to degrade.
That's a really similar unit to what I have... blah ... (´Д⊂ヽ
Ryu Connor wrote:
As for testing. A multimeter would be one way.
Yah, I mean, I have a really nice Fluke meter and I know how to use it, but what would I test for? Voltage drop under load? I can already see that with OCCT, and it didn't drop when using FurMark just after I got this current, most recent RMA replacement. I CAN'T test it now because the thing blackscreens immediately as soon as I load it...

morphine wrote:
Another very relevant question, do you tend to have brownouts in your home?
We do, sometimes, but I have it plugged into a UPS.
morphine wrote:
I just remembered, a friend went through multiple RMAs of a 7850 (7970? can't recall) until I finally convinced him it was the PSU, something I had said since the start. He eventually came to that conclusion on RMA #3, and to this day I still make fun of him.
That seems awfully familiar... nnngh. ( ;ー;) I guess I'll stuff it in my wife's box and see if it still does the same thing there. I did that with the last one and it did, though....
 
morphine
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:31 pm

Hm, last thing, I would check that the UPS is providing proper to the PC.

I'm saying this because I've seen an APC UPS, of all brands, screw up a server with funky random behavior that took me days to diagnose.

Nothing else I can think of. Money's still on the PSU.
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auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:15 pm

Okay well I put it in my wife's PC and it ran Furmark for 30 minutes just fine. (ノ~`)・゜・。

So I guess it's my power supply. Even though this 580 is fine. I guess the 290X does have like 46W higher TDP. And this is a TurboXXNutterXXBastardXXNitro Edition or something. Blaaaah.

That means I have to spend actual money! ( ;∀;)
 
morphine
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:08 pm

As opposed to Monopoly money? :)

Joking aside, sorry to hear that. I don't mind spending $50 by choice, but I hate being forced to spend $0.50.
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auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:10 am

I replaced the power supply and it fixed it. Sigh. (´Д⊂ヽ

The funny thing is, I started thinking about it, and I'm pretty sure I got that power supply in 2007, when I built the first machine I parted out and built myself. That machine had a Socket 939 Opteron 185 on an ASUS A8R-MVP motherboard and a Radeon X1800XT 512MB GPU. So my power supply was like almost 10 years old. Ahaha. ( *´艸`)

Anyway thanks for the help everyone. Sorry for wasting everyone's time with this. I'm going to apologize to Althon Micro too. ( ;∀;)
 
morphine
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:40 am

What was the PSU in question, by the way?

My HX520 is running on ten years old and it's rock solid.
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auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:55 am

morphine wrote:
What was the PSU in question, by the way?

My HX520 is running on ten years old and it's rock solid.

Silverstone Decathlon DA1000.
 
morphine
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:53 pm

Wow, a 1000W power supply borked like that? I would totally take it to an electrician to be repaired. It's still worth $$$.
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:33 pm

It's really not worth the money to have the whole thing recapped.

And that assumes it doesn't have other issues than just the natural wear of components.

Odds are your HX520 isn't as tip top as you think either.
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morphine
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:42 pm

Oh, I know it'll break at any time with its age. I'm just amazed that a 9-year-old 520W PSU is still holding fine (currently with an i7-6700K @ 4.2 + GTX 970).
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auxy
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:46 pm

I took it apart and some of of the caps look slightly bulged. (;'∀')

My dad is an electrical engineer, I'll bring it over to his place. I need to go over there today anyway, as it happens!

Is it really worth doing, though? I guess if it works again and I can take back this stupid $80 unit I got last night. Hehe. (*'▽')
 
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Re: Sapphire RMA experience; typical?

Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:16 pm

auxy wrote:
I took it apart and some of of the caps look slightly bulged. (;'∀')

My dad is an electrical engineer, I'll bring it over to his place. I need to go over there today anyway, as it happens!

Is it really worth doing, though? I guess if it works again and I can take back this stupid $80 unit I got last night. Hehe. (*'▽')

Seems a bit risky to try auxy, and as Ryu pointed out chances are other components have suffered wear & tear/stress as it's aged.
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