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biffzinker
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Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:00 pm

Image
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The RX 470 PCB has 4+1 phase design (RX 480 had 6+1). But the board is the same and it also features single 6-pin power connector.

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Sapphire Radeon RX 460
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But that’s not all, according to the leaker, this is Sapphire RX 460 (Nitro?). It will be available in two variants (2GB and 4GB), but not much is said apart from that.

This picture does not really tell us how long is the PCB of this model, so we are unable to determine if this model is based on reference PCB or is it using a custom board. It does however feature an impressive dual-fan cooling solution, which should be more than enough for sub-75W graphics card.


Source: http://videocardz.com/62511/sapphire-ra ... 0-pictured
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biffzinker
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:36 pm

Anyone notice the copper core from the RX 480 heatsink is now all aluminum for the RX 470, and the RX 460 PCIe connector is PCIe 3.0 x8 instead of x16?
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:42 pm

Darn, I didn't notice the missing copper.
 
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:53 pm

biffzinker wrote:
the RX 460 PCIe connector is PCIe 3.0 x8 instead of x16?


Seems silly to make the PCB x16 but the electrical x8... wasted space and lack of backward compatibility. Or does it come with a saw?
 
Redocbew
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:04 pm

Another oddball decision for Polaris. I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll make in terms of performance, but it still makes me wonder what they're thinking.
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:07 pm

It makes sense.

If AMD/Sapphire want to sell a PCIe x8 version, they just have to change the shape of the bottom of the card, none of the actual wiring has to change but the x16 card gets the PCIe retention hook.

For an ultra budget card I expect stuff like that.
 
Redocbew
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:13 pm

Ok, but how much are they really saving by cutting out a few pins, and why would they bother anyway? What kind of budget PC doesn't have an x16 slot?
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:16 pm

Two fewer VRM's.
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:17 pm

I doubt it has any real effect on performance in this price class. Remember that Chorizo has relatively few PCIe lanes available to it, and it makes sense that Bristol Ridge will, too. My guess is that AMD has decided to cut costs wherever it can, and PCIe lanes are a logical place to start if those lanes aren't giving a tangible benefit.
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Frugal
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:27 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Ok, but how much are they really saving by cutting out a few pins, and why would they bother anyway? What kind of budget PC doesn't have an x16 slot?

They aren't saving anything, they are just making it easy to create another SKU# for oddball mITX and OEM systems that only have an x8 slot.

Designing and validating two entirely different boards is too expensive.

You either do this or give up the oddball market.
 
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:45 pm

biffzinker wrote:
Anyone notice the copper core from the RX 480 heatsink is now all aluminum for the RX 470,


Yes.

biffzinker wrote:
and the RX 460 PCIe connector is PCIe 3.0 x8 instead of x16?


No. I've never seen this before. Given that its 896 shaders I dont expect PCIe bandwidth to be a limiting factor.
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:11 pm

Mr Bill wrote:
Two fewer VRM's.

Luckily, two that feed from the PCIe slot. :)
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:26 pm

i dont see the point of the x8 electical pcie slot
its still x16 in size and i doubt they would be saving money with it also i dont think i have seen any consumer motherboards with an X8 slot only

it makes zero sense :roll:
Image
 
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:00 pm

I doubt this is driving market forces, but the x8 card would work in those SuperMicro server boards which have a plethora of x8's but no x16's. It does appear that most of their UP Socket 1151 boards have an x16 physical / x8 electrical. I have a few Sandy Bridge Xeon boards (the 1155 UP boards) that have no x16's or even open-ended x8's. Why you would want a weak desktop GPU in an IPMI-enabled server is beyond me, though (outside of a few edge cases).
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Waco
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:52 pm

MOSFET wrote:
I doubt this is driving market forces, but the x8 card would work in those SuperMicro server boards which have a plethora of x8's but no x16's. It does appear that most of their UP Socket 1151 boards have an x16 physical / x8 electrical. I have a few Sandy Bridge Xeon boards (the 1155 UP boards) that have no x16's or even open-ended x8's. Why you would want a weak desktop GPU in an IPMI-enabled server is beyond me, though (outside of a few edge cases).

A x16 card works in those slots too.

There's zero reason for a x8 electrical slot with a x16 physical width except for getting the locking tab on x16 slots. However, they can't possible be saving enough money on the traces to justify the x8 electrical form factor...

Color me confused.
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Redocbew
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:20 pm

Yeah, that's why they cut the end of the slot because the PCIe controller can just switch off the unused lanes and the card will function at x8. It's just weird that oddball decisions keep popping up like this.
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:00 pm

Some theorising on the RX 470, and perhaps why it just doesn't need the copper slug. Every cent counts at this price point, after all.

The RX 470 gets 9090 in Firestrike (normal) compared to the RX 480 which gets 11031. We know it has 32CU instead of 36, and we know the 480 boosts at 1266MHz so:

9090/11031=0.824 performance of an RX480
32/36=0.889 CUs of an RX480
0.824/0.889= 92.7% the clockspeed of an RX480
1266MHz*0.927=1173MHz, probably meaning a 1175MHz boost clock on the reference RX 470.

So, this thing operates ~90MHz slower and has 4 fewer CUs. Lower clocks means lower voltages and AMD's chips have been pretty good at power-gating disabled cores for generations now. Power consumption is also related to the square of the voltage so presuming the reference RX 480 runs at about 160W without cp mode in the drivers, that means it will use ~131W at the same voltage as the RX480 and maybe a bit less if the voltage is lower.

I expect a 120W card, and that's a pretty big die area for just 120W. Intel CPU dies are half that size and half that power draw, so similar power dissipation per mm^2. Yet they're fine with nasty aluminium IHSes filled with badly-applied mayonnaise and then cooled by a wimpy alu cooler. The RX470 reference will be fiiiiinnne.
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:30 pm

The new leak looks like the embargo on RX 470 and RX 460 ends tomorrow with RX 470 launched August 4 and RX 460 launching August 8.

I don't know if we will see reviews tomorrow or just an official announcement but something should happen.

When I hear things like 4GB official but AIB partners can do anything they like, I am hopeful that someone will make one that's just like a reference RX 480 8GB so that the RAM can be clocked high and the copper slug might help if it gets overclocked.

I was looking at GDDR5 chips and it seems like the 4Gb variety needed for a 4GB card were initially made for the PS4 console and they did come in slower varieties. The 8Gb chips are much more recent and mostly higher speed chips so the 8GB cards might be the ones that can memory "overclock" up to RX 480 levels.

I wish I could see which GDDR chips and which power configuration every RX 470 card is going to get, then I could choose the right one on day one.
 
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:42 pm

For a card that will come nowhere close to saturating a PCI-e 3.0 slot @ 8x...plus with it only using 8 lanes to the CPU it could be useful to have the extra PCIE lanes for other AIB's like capture cards or storage solutions with PCI-E lane limited mainstream CPU's.

I see no problem at all for a lower end GPU.
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Redocbew
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:19 pm

Can't the board partners always do "anything they like"? I mean, if they're not using a reference PCB design, then what limitations(if any) are there when choosing components for it? The GPU its self will dictate some of that, but more so concerning the type of memory that's used, not the exact capacity, correct? With the exception of something like HBM which is still relatively new and has certain limitations of its own I can't imagine there'd be very many aside from that, plus any that are set by marketing or some other artificially imposed source. I don't see the 470 being any different than any other GPU in that regard, but maybe that's just me.
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:00 am

I am sure that AMD wants to preserve some RX 480 sales so if a board partner was buying cheaper RX 470 chips and building a card that competes too closely with the RX 480, AMD might not like that. If AMD dislikes a board partner, they could choose not to supply them with chips at the next release.
 
Redocbew
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:43 am

You make AMD sound like they have as much weight as Intel did(and probably still does) back when they would threaten to withhold chipset shipments from partners for similar reasons. Maybe AMD could have done the same when the Athlon64 had just been released, but not now. They're not in a position to be playing favorites.

Regardless, the same logic follows for why there wouldn't be a 470 with lots of bells and whistles. Neither the 470 or the 480 are intended to be high end GPUs, so there isn't going to be a lot of room for that stuff without blurring the lines between products.
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biffzinker
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:55 pm

More pictures have leaked of Sapphire's Radeon RX 460. Is Polaris 11 being fabricated with TSMC 16nm FinFET process going by the laser etched die "MADE IN TAWAIN?"
AMD's upcoming 14 nm Polaris 11 "Baffin" ASIC, which powers the Radeon RX 460, was pictured up close, and it's tiny! Pictured as part of a Sapphire Radeon RX 460 Dual-X disassembly by PCOnline.com.cn, the Polaris 11 chip features a tiny package substrate owing to its low pin-count, wiring out a 128-bit wide GDDR5 memory interface; a PCI-Express 3.0 x8 host interface (it fits into x16 slots but has wiring for just x8); and electrical pins to cope with its <75W TDP requirements.

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Source: TechPowerUp - AMD Polaris 11 "Baffin" ASIC Pictured Up Close
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Frugal
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:14 pm

There were a bunch of YouTube videos that just got taken down with RX 470 in various games at various settings. It looked pretty impressive for ~$150.

Many games were in 1440p and still showed frame rates in the mid 40s or higher. Some were in 4k and still looked pretty playable although YouTube on my laptop isn't the greatest way to tell.

I can't say how legit they were but the fact that the account got taken down lends them some credence.

Launch day (tomorrow) should be interesting.
 
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:54 am

This sounds like classic bait and switch. AMD ramps up the chatter on a vaporware-ish 480 at 200$, then out comes an inferior 470 customized and available for MORE?
 
Frugal
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Re: Sapphire Radeon RX 470/460 Pictures Leak

Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:02 pm

I have to agree, they missed the price point by a mile.

I want to find a video card to like and buy at a good value but AMD keeps dropping the ball and Nvidia has its own set of issues.

Now I am wondering how long I have to wait for something to drop in to a reasonable price slot and I am kicking myself for not buying a pair of $200 RX 480 4GB that could be unlocked to 8GB (although I never had the opportunity for that either).

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