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Philldoe
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Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:21 am

I guess we can go ahead and say it's confirmed? All of the info points to yes.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/amd-why-intel-pay-license-increasingly-valuable-property-luskin

While it's not going to be an on-die solution, it's still AMD GPU tech bundled with Intel CPU's via an off-die MCM. This on top of Ryzen and Vega should make for a good year on AMDs earnings report.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:03 am

Great, so Intel drivers are going to suck for eternity. :lol:
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:08 am

So this guy read some stale rumor from last year and has already invented a product... that exists only in his head.

Dayum! They should have hired to to imagine-up RyZen in 2012! It would be 5 years old by now!
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NTMBK
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:17 am

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]Bennett reported that well over 1,000 graphics engineers and employees working directly with graphics engineers were let go in anticipation of Intel handing over graphics-related tasks to AMD[/color]

Well that seems highly dubious. Has anyone actually seen any confirmation of these thousands of redundancies? There should be a massive pile of recently updated LinkedIn profiles. 
 
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:52 am

NTMBK wrote:
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]Bennett reported that well over 1,000 graphics engineers and employees working directly with graphics engineers were let go in anticipation of Intel handing over graphics-related tasks to AMD[/color]

Well that seems highly dubious. Has anyone actually seen any confirmation of these thousands of redundancies? There should be a massive pile of recently updated LinkedIn profiles. 


Yep. A month before the initial rumor this happened.

http://www.techspot.com/news/64503-intel-cut-12000-jobs-pc-demand-decline.html
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:53 am

Philldoe wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]Bennett reported that well over 1,000 graphics engineers and employees working directly with graphics engineers were let go in anticipation of Intel handing over graphics-related tasks to AMD[/color]

Well that seems highly dubious. Has anyone actually seen any confirmation of these thousands of redundancies? There should be a massive pile of recently updated LinkedIn profiles. 


Yep. A month before the initial rumor this happened.

http://www.techspot.com/news/64503-intel-cut-12000-jobs-pc-demand-decline.html

Any evidence that these cuts came from the graphics team?
 
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:06 pm

NTMBK wrote:
Philldoe wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
Well that seems highly dubious. Has anyone actually seen any confirmation of these thousands of redundancies? There should be a massive pile of recently updated LinkedIn profiles. 


Yep. A month before the initial rumor this happened.

http://www.techspot.com/news/64503-intel-cut-12000-jobs-pc-demand-decline.html

Any evidence that these cuts came from the graphics team?


Intels press release...

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/news-release-intel-announces-restructuring/

...Does not state where the layoffs come from, but with 12,000 people being let go, I'm sure their Graphics division was hit as well( 12,000 people is 11% of the intel work force as of that being announced.). I read over that press release closely and the language can be interpreted to support the rumor. Letting AMD do the leg work on GPUs could very well be cheaper than Intel running it's own GPU team.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:12 pm

I'm just waiting for Intel IGPs to add VESA VRR support. I mean it'll help for gaming but in the context of Intel IGP performance it'll be far more useful for D3D fullscreen video also giving panel manufacturers even more reason to make more/better VRR displays.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:13 pm

Citing a layoff announcement from Intel as proof that they have abandoned all graphics development in favor of AMD* is like citing any of the almost interminable rounds of layoffs from AMD as proof that RyZen doesn't actually exist.


* Which is sort of twisted when you think about it because Intel's graphics focus ain't on high-end GPUs. It's on highly power-efficient IGPs that are especially aimed at mobile. Guess who isn't known for making the world's most power efficient GPUs? That would be AMD.  If Intel was going to ape from anybody, wouldn't they choose Nvidia?
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:16 pm

chuckula wrote:
* Which is sort of twisted when you think about it because Intel's graphics focus ain't on high-end GPUs. It's on highly power-efficient IGPs that are especially aimed at mobile. Guess who isn't known for making the world's most power efficient GPUs? That would be AMD.  If Intel was going to ape from anybody, wouldn't they choose Nvidia?

Intel probably is more concerned with Nvidia. "The enemy of my enemy" and all that.

Alternatively, Intel is worried that AMD is going to go out of business and this is a way to help prop them up. just like MS and Apple in the 90's.
 
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:23 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
Alternatively, Intel is worried that AMD is going to go out of business and this is a way to help prop them up. just like MS and Apple in the 90's.


That crazy talk! RyZen will soon ryze to destroy Intel!

Slightly more seriously, if this rumor is true, it's a little bizarre in nature: Why would AMD want to give Intel any purported advantage in on-chip graphics -- where AMD has historically had a lead or at least been competitive -- when AMD is also supposedly going to have RyZenified APUs out sometime this year?
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:36 pm

chuckula wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
Alternatively, Intel is worried that AMD is going to go out of business and this is a way to help prop them up. just like MS and Apple in the 90's.


That crazy talk! RyZen will soon ryze to destroy Intel!

Slightly more seriously, if this rumor is true, it's a little bizarre in nature: Why would AMD want to give Intel any purported advantage in on-chip graphics -- where AMD has historically had a lead or at least been competitive -- when AMD is also supposedly going to have RyZenified APUs out sometime this year?

Cash right now, maybe?
 
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:02 pm

Why would so many of the recent AMD GPU demo systems use Intel CPUs? Probably because there is also talk that RTG wants to spin off from AMD and come full circle. All of it is more than plausible with what I've seen over the past year.

If you guys read all of that I posted in that link rather than skimming over half of it and done... Its all explained how everything fits together.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:16 pm

We should ask Jeff to ask Nathan to ask Scott if the rumours are true.

We also know that Jeff knows how to play buffalo.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:23 pm

Imagine the crazy little gaming systems we'd get with a Kaby Lake Pentium (with HT) and an integrated RX 460-level IGP. :o
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:05 pm

chuckula wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
Alternatively, Intel is worried that AMD is going to go out of business and this is a way to help prop them up. just like MS and Apple in the 90's.


That crazy talk! RyZen will soon ryze to destroy Intel!

Slightly more seriously, if this rumor is true, it's a little bizarre in nature: Why would AMD want to give Intel any purported advantage in on-chip graphics -- where AMD has historically had a lead or at least been competitive -- when AMD is also supposedly going to have RyZenified APUs out sometime this year?

because no one wants to work with Nvidia. AMD and Intel have been collaborating, or at least in discussion on the GPU side ever since ATI was smashed into AMD.

And AMD pref/watt is competitive if you don't demand maximum performance. Radeon Pro 460? 35W at 1.86 TFLOP (900mhz).
The P1000 is similar at 1.86 TFLOPs. All 768 cores enabled and in a laptop form factor at 1.86 TFLOPs should drop to around 35W also.

The fact that AMD has a slightly smaller die, and is willing to go for lower margins than Nvidia helps also.

Philldoe wrote:
Why would so many of the recent AMD GPU demo systems use Intel CPUs? Probably because there is also talk that RTG wants to spin off from AMD and come full circle. All of it is more than plausible with what I've seen over the past year.

If you guys read all of that I posted in that link rather than skimming over half of it and done... Its all explained how everything fits together.

AMD does have a scenario planned for a company failing. That's not how it would split.

I expect early talks of Intel + Radeon iGPU led to the theory of RTG being pushed into Intel.

Regarding demo's, you want to minimize performance bottlenecks. And don't want to give any performance indication away.

Also using non-released products is generally frowned upon unless that is the product being demo's.

Which is why AND used Titan X over Vega 10 for their Ryzen versus i7 8C. Although, that may just as well be Titan X beating Vega 10. At the least before drivers for what seems to be a big jump on architecture (Kepler -> Maxwell levels).
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:56 pm

Can a person say "get off my lawn" before they turn 40? That's kind of how I feel about this one. It's just annoying, I don't care, and I want it to go away.

Fortunately I don't have to actually do anything to make it go away, so I guess there's that. :P
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:08 pm

NoOne ButMe wrote:
because no one wants to work with Nvidia.


Was ready to post that but beaten to it, so I post it anyway. It's an opinion, but it's shared with many. It's probably worth repeating.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:03 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
I'm just waiting for Intel IGPs to add VESA VRR support. I mean it'll help for gaming but in the context of Intel IGP performance it'll be far more useful for D3D fullscreen video also giving panel manufacturers even more reason to make more/better VRR displays.


Supposed to be Coffee/Cannon Lake that adds this alongside DP1.4 support.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:08 am

MOSFET wrote:
NoOne ButMe wrote:
because no one wants to work with Nvidia.


Was ready to post that but beaten to it, so I post it anyway.  It's an opinion, but it's shared with many.  It's probably worth repeating.

..well, there is this Co. called IBM. :lol:
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:10 am

The first instance of this rumor I heard of was at HardOCP.

Another point in that article its hat out of the 12,000 jobs Intel cut, over 1,000 were in the graphics division.

The amusing thing is that it is likely Apple pushing for a deal between AMD and Intel. Apple has been known to push Intel for better GPUs and isn't afraid to shop else where if need be (hello Polaris 11 in new MacBook Pro). More interesting is that Apple is shunning some of the designs they commissioned Intel to manufacture which would imply they didn't meet Apple's targets. A custom MCM to appease Apple is something I can see both Intel and AMD doing. The real question is how wide of release would this chip get outside of Apple.
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the
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:26 am

CScottG wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
NoOne ButMe wrote:
because no one wants to work with Nvidia.


Was ready to post that but beaten to it, so I post it anyway.  It's an opinion, but it's shared with many.  It's probably worth repeating.

..well, there is this Co. called IBM. :lol:


Heh, IBM and nVidia worked together ages ago on the Geforce 6800. The amusing thing is that nVidia reportedly got the bad end of that deal.

FWIW, both Sony and Microsoft both worked with nVidia in the past for game consoles and both opted not to use nVidia again. Microsoft ended up suing nVidia over component prices. Reportedly the relationship between Sony and nVidia wasn't good but it never flared up in public like Microsoft vs. nVidia did. Now it appears to be Nintendo's turn to deal with nVidia.

Back in the day when AMD was looking to purchase a GPU company, they reportedly came close to buying nVidia instead of ATI. One of the sticking points was that Jen-Hsung wanted a seat on AMD's board. That would have been an interesting alternate reality had that deal gone through but it was a big enough sticking point to can the entire deal.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:15 am

the wrote:
Back in the day when AMD was looking to purchase a GPU company, they reportedly came close to buying nVidia instead of ATI. One of the sticking points was that Jen-Hsung wanted a seat on AMD's board. That would have been an interesting alternate reality had that deal gone through but it was a big enough sticking point to can the entire deal.

as I understand it, Jen-Hsung wanted to be CEO of the company if bought/merged.

For a seat on board I imagine AMD would have taken it.

TBH, I dislike him greatly, but Jen-Hsung would have forced CPU and GPU team together faster unlike what did happen. where internal debate/fighting caused whole APU stack to be delayed over a year.

Regarding VRR, HDMI 2.1 supports it natively I believe.

Fixed Jen-Hsung's name. Guess my phone picked up on my hatred and found odd spellings to autocorrect to.
Last edited by NoOne ButMe on Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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NTMBK
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:44 am

Philldoe wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
Philldoe wrote:

Yep. A month before the initial rumor this happened.

http://www.techspot.com/news/64503-intel-cut-12000-jobs-pc-demand-decline.html

Any evidence that these cuts came from the graphics team?


Intels press release...

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/news-release-intel-announces-restructuring/

...Does not state where the layoffs come from, but with 12,000 people being let go, I'm sure their Graphics division was hit as well( 12,000 people is 11% of the intel work force as of that being announced.). I read over that press release closely and the language can be interpreted to support the rumor. Letting AMD do the leg work on GPUs could very well be cheaper than Intel running it's own GPU team.

So no, there's no particular evidence that the graphics team was hit harder than anyone else :) 
 
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:00 am

CScottG wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
NoOne ButMe wrote:
because no one wants to work with Nvidia.


Was ready to post that but beaten to it, so I post it anyway.  It's an opinion, but it's shared with many.  It's probably worth repeating.

..well, there is this Co. called IBM. :lol:
Cue the music:
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(..and something to look "forward" to (and behind and to both sides): Nvidia will be crashing an Audi or Mercedes Benz near you soon.)

no one wants to work with Nvidia if there is an alternative, and/or a negative potential.

Regarding IBM:
The worst Nvidia can do to IBM is to move off them. Which also shoots themselves due to NvLink being integrated with IBM.

Or rather, the partnership with IBM only increases sales/ASP. For a minor die size increase which given the cost of IBM's hardware is not of consequence.

Intel now, would probably be roped into having to sign onto a licensing agreement to use GPUs. Heh. I wonder if Nvidia's bid (if one existed) was that Intel could license Keller/Maxwell and make themselves.

All Intel would have to do is work with Nvidia engineers on their CPUs and share roadmaps. Yeah. That's smart.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:21 am

NTMBK wrote:
Philldoe wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
Any evidence that these cuts came from the graphics team?


Intels press release...

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/news-release-intel-announces-restructuring/

...Does not state where the layoffs come from, but with 12,000 people being let go, I'm sure their Graphics division was hit as well( 12,000 people is 11% of the intel work force as of that being announced.). I read over that press release closely and the language can be interpreted to support the rumor. Letting AMD do the leg work on GPUs could very well be cheaper than Intel running it's own GPU team.

So no, there's no particular evidence that the graphics team was hit harder than anyone else :) 


None of the news says intel is completely ditching it's own IGP. Some of the low end SKUs and those with the Iris silicon are said to stay around, but the Radeon parts are for CPU's used in certain products. You sound like you are trying your damnedest to go into denial about AMD and Intel working together on something.
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:37 am

Waco wrote:
Great, so Intel drivers are going to suck for eternity.  :lol:

Given my current nonsensical issue with Intel drivers I'd say they already suck. And what's the point of adding a resolution/refresh rate override option if the user is not allowed to even use it anyway. 
 
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:05 am

Kougar wrote:
Waco wrote:
Great, so Intel drivers are going to suck for eternity.  :lol:

Given my current nonsensical issue with Intel drivers I'd say they already suck. And what's the point of adding a resolution/refresh rate override option if the user is not allowed to even use it anyway. 

I didn't mean to imply they don't suck now - I meant they would continue to suck. :lol:
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:10 am

Philldoe wrote:
None of the news says intel is completely ditching it's own IGP. Some of the low end SKUs and those with the Iris silicon are said to stay around, but the Radeon parts are for CPU's used in certain products. You sound like you are trying your damnedest to go into denial about AMD and Intel working together on something.

And you sound like you're trying your damnedest to believe that they are working together on something :) The only evidence I've seen is rumour-mongering by Kyle from Hard|OCP. All other "news" about it has been other sites reporting on his rumours. I just don't think it's very plausible. 

However, I would be happy to be proven wrong- I think an Intel CPU and integrated AMD GPU would make for a very cool product. Great for gaming laptops and compact Steambox gaming PCs. 
 
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Re: Intel Licensing AMD GPU Tech

Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:31 am

This has 'Custom Design' wins written all over it.  Intel has stated they want to get into the custom package and custom silicon boutique business because AMD is making some margins at it.  I imagine this is more or less them trying to 'keep a client' and keep Nvidia out of their partnership with apple.
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