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chuckula
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:50 am

cynan wrote:
chuckula wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
I saw this article on fudzilla stating that AMD loses $100 on every Vega 64 sold at suggested $500 MSRP....
/sprinkle salt/


But they make up for it in volume!

The real test will come when they report their Q3 earnings. If they aren't really in the black (I'm talking minimum $100 million in profit) in their graphics division even when literally every product they make is being snapped up immediately at an inflated price then it points to a structural issue inside of AMD itself. There are plenty of people who love to point fingers at Nvidia/Intel/Tooth Fairy as being the sole cause of all of AMD's woes, but all those big bad boogeymen aren't responsible for AMD failing to make money when literally everything AMD makes is sold instantly.


Are all of AMD's zen based CPUs sold out instantly? If you're just talking about their GPUs or Vega - well that's not so hard with the HBM2 situation. I'm not sure what's going on with their Polaris supply.

What do you mean "structural issue"? For AMD, gaming Vega was never about being competitive with Nvidia from a profit standpoint in the short term. It was an investment placeholder to keep them relevant in high end gaming until Navi. Which, so far, with HBM2 yields, hasn't panned out particularly well. But Vega was never going to undercut Pascal on a cost/revenue basis. They are still making profit on their professional Vega products



This isn't particularly complicated and you are conflating numerous irrelevant issues. First off, I don't care if AMD literally fails to sell a single RyZen/Threaripper/whatever CPU in all of Q3, their GRAPHCIS DIVISION THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ZEN ought to be making money hand over fist by selling out every single GPU they make at full price. As for Polaris, it's still in short supply and selling at inflated prices and it has been doing so for a long long time. If AMD can't capitalize on literally perfect market conditions that are actually rewarding them for producing products that aren't very good for most consumers, then I strongly doubt they are going to be posting huge profits when market conditions are no longer unrealistically good for them.

To put it in perspective, big bad Ngreedia sure doesn't seem to have a problem turning a profit even when they have literally zero revenue from x86 sales or even from what one would call a high-end ARM product. On top of that, Ngreedia isn't selling out every GPU it makes instantly and frankly most of its consumer line looks like a bargain when you compare real-world prices of Vega and Polaris to Nvidia's lineup. Nvidia is *not* experiencing perfect demand on anywhere near the scale of AMD, but for some reason Nvidia seems to turn a real profit anyway. Once again , the point is that things are *literally perfect* for AMD right now from the market demand side. If that can't put up *big* profits (not some B.S. "we made an operating profit but still lost money" line) then why should anybody rational expect them to be putting up big profits when the market eventually ceases to be *literally perfect*.

Secondly, I think Vega is a sub-par product for 99% of consumers since it's late, overpowered, overpriced, and underperforming. Do you know how much impact that has on AMD's Q3 earnings report? I'll tell you: ZERO. If AMD sells a Vega for $700 that is immediately thrown in a woodchipper compared to selling the same Vega for $700 to a miner compared to selling the same Vega for $700 to Krogoth, each of those sales has literally the same impact on AMD's Q3 numbers. AMD is in the extremely enviable position of producing products that are objectively worse than their competitors for 99% of real-world uses but it doesn't matter since they are selling anyway and money doesn't care about benchmarks.

As for the fact that HBM2 is in short supply or whatever other excuses are being offered, well AMD chose that path and that's AMD's fault. Their own marketing department claims that there is "unprecedented demand" for Vega. If AMD can't make a real profit when market conditions are basically perfect, then it's AMD's fault, end of story.
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Vhalidictes
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:14 pm

Glorious wrote:
cynan wrote:
What do you mean "structural issue"? For AMD, gaming Vega was never about being competitive with Nvidia from a profit standpoint in the short term. It was an investment placeholder to keep them relevant in high end gaming until Navi.


Dude, come on.

The "structural issue" is that we can replace "Vega" with "Fury" and "Navi" with "Vega".

Let's not pretend that this dismal state of affairs is some sort of "plan". They want to do better. I want them to do better. But they are having problems. Something is wrong, and it's been wrong roughly the same way for quite some time.


Most things in life are complex. AMDs graphic cards problems aren't. They don't have the funding to have two separate sets of GPUs, so they have a unified Compute/Graphics design.

This means that due to die-area and power concerns, they will never catch up to NVIDIA's purpose-built Graphics cards. It's a design tradeoff.

Hopefully due to the success of the Zen core AMD will be able to spin up a separate GPU design for Compute, but until they do it's going to be more of the same.
 
cynan
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:34 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
Glorious wrote:
cynan wrote:
What do you mean "structural issue"? For AMD, gaming Vega was never about being competitive with Nvidia from a profit standpoint in the short term. It was an investment placeholder to keep them relevant in high end gaming until Navi.


Dude, come on.

The "structural issue" is that we can replace "Vega" with "Fury" and "Navi" with "Vega".

Let's not pretend that this dismal state of affairs is some sort of "plan". They want to do better. I want them to do better. But they are having problems. Something is wrong, and it's been wrong roughly the same way for quite some time.


Most things in life are complex. AMDs graphic cards problems aren't. They don't have the funding to have two separate sets of GPUs, so they have a unified Compute/Graphics design.

This means that due to die-area and power concerns, they will never catch up to NVIDIA's purpose-built Graphics cards. It's a design tradeoff.

Hopefully due to the success of the Zen core AMD will be able to spin up a separate GPU design for Compute, but until they do it's going to be more of the same.


Added to that, in a very simplistic sense, the jump from Vega to Navi will be more like pre-RyZen to RyZen. This is because Navi, like RyZen, will be designed to use multiple smaller dies in a single package. This should finally give AMD the fab cost and TDP edge to be competitive with Pascal and Volta. Or at least be a lot more competitive than the Vega design philosophy ever could be.
 
DragonDaddyBear
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:40 pm

It sucks (power) as a graphics card, but it's compute is pretty good for the money. And they are heavily investing in open-source for that market. That makes me think their design priority was compute first.
 
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:10 pm

cynan wrote:
Added to that, in a very simplistic sense, the jump from Vega to Navi will be more like pre-RyZen to RyZen. This is because Navi, like RyZen, will be designed to use multiple smaller dies in a single package. This should finally give AMD the fab cost and TDP edge to be competitive with Pascal and Volta. Or at least be a lot more competitive than the Vega design philosophy ever could be.


That's not what made Ryzen such an improvement over Bulldozer and its derivatives. The only reason the jump was that big was because Bulldozer was such a turd. Vega is not a turd. It'd be a reasonable alternative if the pricing wasn't out of whack.
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cynan
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:47 pm

Redocbew wrote:
cynan wrote:
Added to that, in a very simplistic sense, the jump from Vega to Navi will be more like pre-RyZen to RyZen. This is because Navi, like RyZen, will be designed to use multiple smaller dies in a single package. This should finally give AMD the fab cost and TDP edge to be competitive with Pascal and Volta. Or at least be a lot more competitive than the Vega design philosophy ever could be.


That's not what made Ryzen such an improvement over Bulldozer and its derivatives. The only reason the jump was that big was because Bulldozer was such a turd. Vega is not a turd. It'd be a reasonable alternative if the pricing wasn't out of whack.


Oh, I think from a TDP and cost (to AMD) perspective, Vega is a bit of a gaming product turd. But no, not as an overall product.
 
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:23 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
Lordhawkwind wrote:
If you look at the performance deltas between the 1080ti and Vega 64 in DX11 & 1440p it ranges from single digit to 35%. If you look at DX12 the delta narrows to virtually nothing up to 20%. That's a big drop off for the 1080ti in DX12 and that's where gaming is going. Obviously the 1080ti is still faster overall in DX12 but for those of us who snagged a Vega 64 at MSRP the extra cost isn't justified by extra performance. Maybe AMD's strategy on Vega is to try and hold it's market share by keeping existing AMD GPU owners like me on board rather than losing us to Nvidia. Freesync may also be a pull for people as once you've experienced a good VRR monitor you don't want to go back. Enhanced sync is also a good addition and can be used in conjunction with freesync.



"Where it's going"

I love this faulty logic used to purchase products that represent a poor price/performance compromise today: it'll be better tomorrow!

Here's the thing. Tomorrow, the games will be more demanding, new cards will be out to handle them, and you'll have spent more to get less performance over time.

And that's at MSRP. So pat yourself on the back- you got a poor deal, instead of the exceedingly poor deal that anyone who manages to buy one for the actual median price that nearly everyone else will pay.

Same goes for the Vega 56. You can buy one, but you have to buy a US$100 game along with it! Hooray!


Faulty logic you do make me laugh. So when Nvidia releases their Volta mid-range (sorry high end not:) card sometime next year and charge >$800 you'll buy it because it is the first full DX12 NV card. Oh wait they'll then release a TI version 3 months later which will wipe the floor with it and cost the same. Oh does that sound familiar somehow? Nvidia are so good with their pricing to their consumers aren't they? So just explain to me how in some DX12 games the 1080ti only just beats a Vega 64. Biased reviews maybe?

Finally so I got a bad deal paying £450 for a Vega 64 AC that is great on my 144hz freesync monitor when I could have paid another £225 (50%) for cheapest 1080ti for at best 35% more performance. Whose logic is faulty???
 
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:06 pm

Lordhawkwind wrote:
Whose logic is faulty???


Yours. Your card is a decent price/performance proposition, but is topped out, and AMD is unlikely to improve performance anywhere in the near future. That's AMD's trend. So you're locked in either to the performance level you're at while games continue increasing their performance needs, or you give up FreeSync/buy another monitor.

Nvidia's is that their next consumer card will be as fast as their current Ti, but cheaper, and if you want/need faster than that, you'll actually be able to buy it. That's Nvidia's trend.

You can cry about pricing. Don't buy. But you're going to cry about actually having the option to buy? Lol.
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Lordhawkwind
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:21 am

Airmantharp wrote:
Lordhawkwind wrote:
Whose logic is faulty???


Yours. Your card is a decent price/performance proposition, but is topped out, and AMD is unlikely to improve performance anywhere in the near future. That's AMD's trend. So you're locked in either to the performance level you're at while games continue increasing their performance needs, or you give up FreeSync/buy another monitor.

Nvidia's is that their next consumer card will be as fast as their current Ti, but cheaper, and if you want/need faster than that, you'll actually be able to buy it. That's Nvidia's trend.

You can cry about pricing. Don't buy. But you're going to cry about actually having the option to buy? Lol.


Do you actually read the diatribe you write before you post or do those green tinted glasses blur the words? You also seem to have a very short memory so I'll remind you about the 1070/1080 launch with some review quotes from the time..

Nvidia noted that each would be offered in a Founders Edition, costing $100 and $70 more than their typical retail prices — but it didn't explain what would be different about those variants of its new Pascal GPUs. As Bennett now reports, the Founders Edition turns Nvidia's reference line into its own profit driver, tacking on the extra cost as essentially a profit margin for the GPU designer. The reason why anyone should actually want to spend extra is something Nvidia hadn't mentioned in its graphics card launches before this week. There are two significant downsides to the Founders Edition GPUs, however. Firstly, says Bennett, the launch cards for the GeForce GTX 1080 and 1070 will be only Founders Editions, so whether you're convinced by them or not, you'll have to pay the premium price to get one immediately. The other aspect is that there's no actual spec difference: Founders Editions run at the same clock speed as the stock design that's handed out to partners. Asus and EVGA make a habit of selling overclocked versions, which cost a little extra, so there may well be a scenario where Nvidia offers a slower card at a higher price, depending on how its partners react. Once Nvidia launched the Ti they immediately dropped the 1080 to $499 the real price it should have sold at from launch being as it was NV's mid-range card. You also seem to forget it went out of stock also immediately and guess what the price got massively inflated until NV corrected supply. Sounds familiar? So much for Nvidia's fair pricing policy and as the 1180 will have no competition again expect the same except the price might be even higher as why not milk it while they can. Cheaper you're having a laugh.

I'm stunned really that you even believe AMD won't improve performance with Vega given that some of it's main features aren't fully implemented and the drivers are extremely immature. So future games are going to increase performance needs and lets not forget they'll be DX12 or Vulcan where it's clearly demonstrable that Pascal loses performance in comparison to AMD cards. So who's locked into their performance levels? What do you mean I can cry about pricing so don't buy. I've ALREADY bought a Vega 64 do you even own a dGPU let alone a high end one?
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:33 am

Lordhawkwind wrote:
Do you actually read the diatribe you write before you post or do those green tinted glasses blur the words?
It's a funny thing. If you're asked to evaluate one thing, you make an objective evaluation and conclude that it's pretty good. If you're asked to evaluate another thing, you make an objective evaluation and conclude that it's also pretty good. When you are asked to choose between two things, you decide which one is better and which one is worse. Your evaluation of the thing that you picked as the better one remains fairly consistent, but from that moment onward, your evaluation of the thing that you selected against is greatly reduced from your original objective evaluation. You're seeing an example of certain individuals taking this human behavior to an extreme. If they pick Thing 2 over Thing 1, then from that point on, Thing 1 seems awful, even if the objective evaluations were that both things were pretty good.

I bought a Vega56 at MSRP on Monday. If FedEx gets their act together, I'll get to enjoy it soon.
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Airmantharp
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:57 am

Lordhawkwind wrote:
I'm stunned really that you even believe AMD won't improve performance with Vega given that some of it's main features aren't fully implemented and the drivers are extremely immature. So future games are going to increase performance needs and lets not forget they'll be DX12 or Vulcan where it's clearly demonstrable that Pascal loses performance in comparison to AMD cards. So who's locked into their performance levels? What do you mean I can cry about pricing so don't buy. I've ALREADY bought a Vega 64 do you even own a dGPU let alone a high end one?


So you're comparing official pricing vs. unofficial pricing? Okay. Nvidia didn't mince words with their pricing, but they did confuse people. Thing is, they made happen what AMD could not: their cards were actually broadly available for purchase.

You literally only have an argument because you got lucky.

On DX12: both AMD and Nvidia will improve a bit over time. We've seen that. However, only Nvidia has a competitive gaming solution that will exceed the performance of their current parts (as well as match the lower parts for performance at lower prices), for those that have G-Sync monitors.

For Vega owners that jumped on 'Free'Sync? You can keep praying for those magic drivers that never come, because you won't have anything decent to upgrade to.


[and yeah, I own and have owned many DGPUs, including multiple MGPU setups purchased when no single GPU was fast enough, and yeah, I considered myself in the market for Vega right up until the reviews hit- I'm looking forward to VR and upgrading to a ~32" 4k120 HDR monitor, and will consider products from whoever hits my price/performance/efficiency desires]
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:01 am

Pville_Piper wrote:
Lordhawkwind wrote:
As someone who managed to snag a Vega 64 AC on launch day for just £450 avoid it like the plague. The card and drivers are horrendous and forget the 750w PSU it won't do the business. RTG needs to hang their heads in shame after releasing this garbage. Disappointed doesn't even come close and I only bought it because I have a freesync monitor. This card could kill freesync completely it's that bad. Luckily I have a 14 day no quibble refund which I will be using very shortly. A 1080ti here I come.


So I guess all the good ones went to the reviewers?


That wasn't very smart on his part, considering the markup on ebay/the internet for GPUs he should have sold it on ebay and it probably would pay for the 1080TI. I would expect wherever he bought the Vega64, that the 1080TI was selling for more.
 
cynan
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:04 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Lordhawkwind wrote:
Do you actually read the diatribe you write before you post or do those green tinted glasses blur the words?
It's a funny thing. If you're asked to evaluate one thing, you make an objective evaluation and conclude that it's pretty good. If you're asked to evaluate another thing, you make an objective evaluation and conclude that it's also pretty good. When you are asked to choose between two things, you decide which one is better and which one is worse. Your evaluation of the thing that you picked as the better one remains fairly consistent, but from that moment onward, your evaluation of the thing that you selected against is greatly reduced from your original objective evaluation. You're seeing an example of certain individuals taking this human behavior to an extreme. If they pick Thing 2 over Thing 1, then from that point on, Thing 1 seems awful, even if the objective evaluations were that both things were pretty good.

I bought a Vega56 at MSRP on Monday. If FedEx gets their act together, I'll get to enjoy it soon.


I would have liked to have given Vega a shot. But being in Canada, getting Vega at the launch price was impossible. Given the uncertainty of the GPU market, I decided to go with a bit of a deal on a 1080 Ti. A 1080 would have been sufficient for my needs, but up until last week (when I bought the Ti) you could only find them for inflated prices. When I spend a chunk of change on something like this, I like to feel like I've gotten a good price - even, apparently, if it requires spending a bit more than my requirements dictate - which is not all that logical.

All to say that any cognitive dissonance and bias (Ie, your Thing 2 vs Thing 1) I suffer from would have probably pointed me toward Vega. But given that Vega was out of the question for the foreseeable future, it led me to a 1080 Ti instead of a 1080. :o
Last edited by cynan on Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
cynan
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:14 am

Airmantharp wrote:
For Vega owners that jumped on 'Free'Sync? You can keep praying for those magic drivers that never come, because you won't have anything decent to upgrade to.


What do you have against FreeSync? Sure, there have been a few issues with Polaris, but that's apparently been cleared up in the latest drivers. Vega (the subject of this thread) doesn't seem to have any issues.
 
Airmantharp
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:27 am

cynan wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:
For Vega owners that jumped on 'Free'Sync? You can keep praying for those magic drivers that never come, because you won't have anything decent to upgrade to.


What do you have against FreeSync? Sure, there have been a few issues with Polaris, but that's apparently been cleared up in the latest drivers. Vega (the subject of this thread) doesn't seem to have any issues.


Against the technology itself? Nothing, really, but I'm still wary of the implementations, as anyone interested should be.

But it also locks you into AMD's slower GPUs and sluggish refresh schedule, which means that owners either have to deal with lower framerates/settings while waiting on AMD to deliver mid-range Nvidia performance a year later, or buy Nvidia and lose FreeSync.

[or buy Nvidia and swap monitors...]
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:14 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
cynan wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:
For Vega owners that jumped on 'Free'Sync? You can keep praying for those magic drivers that never come, because you won't have anything decent to upgrade to.


What do you have against FreeSync? Sure, there have been a few issues with Polaris, but that's apparently been cleared up in the latest drivers. Vega (the subject of this thread) doesn't seem to have any issues.


Against the technology itself? Nothing, really, but I'm still wary of the implementations, as anyone interested should be.

But it also locks you into AMD's slower GPUs and sluggish refresh schedule, which means that owners either have to deal with lower framerates/settings while waiting on AMD to deliver mid-range Nvidia performance a year later, or buy Nvidia and lose FreeSync.

[or buy Nvidia and swap monitors...]


You can make the same arguments with G-Sync. You are lock at the mercy of your vendor. There's no guarantee that Volta and its successors are going offer massive jumps or Nvidia is going to continue to release them at the same aggressive pace.
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:49 pm

Krogoth wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:
cynan wrote:

What do you have against FreeSync? Sure, there have been a few issues with Polaris, but that's apparently been cleared up in the latest drivers. Vega (the subject of this thread) doesn't seem to have any issues.


Against the technology itself? Nothing, really, but I'm still wary of the implementations, as anyone interested should be.

But it also locks you into AMD's slower GPUs and sluggish refresh schedule, which means that owners either have to deal with lower framerates/settings while waiting on AMD to deliver mid-range Nvidia performance a year later, or buy Nvidia and lose FreeSync.

[or buy Nvidia and swap monitors...]


You can make the same arguments with G-Sync. You are lock at the mercy of your vendor. There's no guarantee that Volta and its successors are going offer massive jumps or Nvidia is going to continue to release them at the same aggressive pace.



That *is* my point. You're locked in either way.

And if you want VRR, then you'd might as well be locked in with the company that has a positive track record of delivering higher performing products on a regular basis.
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:47 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:

I bought a Vega56 at MSRP on Monday. If FedEx gets their act together, I'll get to enjoy it soon.


8)

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-vega-56-seri ... a-64-bios/
 
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:49 pm

1) AMD did a pretty good job with the RX 480. not their fault the mining craze took off. They hedged their bets on HBM 2 and it did not go well. Proven track record, no, but it's not all doom and gloom. For the money they are pretty good if you can over look the higher power. Which brings up point 2

2)Not everyone can afford or needs beyond a RX 480/ 1060ti GPU. AMD and FreeSync hits the sweet spot... or it did before the miners went nuts.
 
Airmantharp
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:40 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
1) AMD did a pretty good job with the RX 480. not their fault the mining craze took off. They hedged their bets on HBM 2 and it did not go well. Proven track record, no, but it's not all doom and gloom. For the money they are pretty good if you can over look the higher power. Which brings up point 2

2)Not everyone can afford or needs beyond a RX 480/ 1060Ti GPU. AMD and FreeSync hits the sweet spot... or it did before the miners went nuts.


I won't disagree that, once they fixed them, the RX480's (and RX580 rebadge) are good cards. However, remember what they're competing with: the 1060 uses Nvidia's third-largest GPU, the GP106. It's smaller than GP104 (1070/1080), which is their midrange part, and GP102 (Titan/Ti), their top-end part.

AMD didn't move the bar, at all, with that part. Users with AMD cards two years old could get better power usage (though still more than Nvidia), but no more performance.

This is why I'm skeptical of AMD and FreeSync. It makes sense if you only need performance available today for games released today, but the future is more questionable than with Nvidia and G-Sync.

Now, if you're not interested in VRR, your PSU and case can support the higher TDPs, and you can get a good deal, AMD makes sense.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L |70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|50/1.4 USM|50/2.5 CM|50/1.8 STM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8|24/2.8 IS|Sigma 150-600 | C
Canon EOS-M|11-22 IS|22/2|EF-M 18-55
 
Lordhawkwind
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:47 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
DragonDaddyBear wrote:
1) AMD did a pretty good job with the RX 480. not their fault the mining craze took off. They hedged their bets on HBM 2 and it did not go well. Proven track record, no, but it's not all doom and gloom. For the money they are pretty good if you can over look the higher power. Which brings up point 2

2)Not everyone can afford or needs beyond a RX 480/ 1060Ti GPU. AMD and FreeSync hits the sweet spot... or it did before the miners went nuts.


I won't disagree that, once they fixed them, the RX480's (and RX580 rebadge) are good cards. However, remember what they're competing with: the 1060 uses Nvidia's third-largest GPU, the GP106. It's smaller than GP104 (1070/1080), which is their midrange part, and GP102 (Titan/Ti), their top-end part.

AMD didn't move the bar, at all, with that part. Users with AMD cards two years old could get better power usage (though still more than Nvidia), but no more performance.
This is why I'm skeptical of AMD and FreeSync. It makes sense if you only need performance available today for games released today, but the future is more questionable than with Nvidia and G-Sync. Now, if you're not interested in VRR, your PSU and case can support the higher TDPs, and you can get a good deal, AMD makes sense.


Have you ever used freesync? Doubt it but you've read a few old reviews and now suddenly you're an expert. Give me a break please. You're talking utter and complete nonsense without any practical experience. My experience with freesync on a fury Pro and Vega 64 has been flawless and I'd even say amazing compared to the stuttering and tearing I used to enjoy (on my 770 and 970). I wouldn't dream of slagging off G-Sync because I've never used it and I'm sure all Nvidia users like it as much as I Iike freesync and wouldn't go back to crappy 60hz monitors.

I'm not even sure why you bother to post on this Vega thread as nothing you've contributed has been remotely to do with Vega it's all been about how superior you feel about your NVidia card and G-Sync. Find an Nvidia thread to trawl and leave this Vega thread to people who at least are open minded about Vega. In other words get a life.
 
Airmantharp
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:07 pm

Lordhawkwind wrote:
Have you ever used freesync? Doubt it but you've read a few old reviews and now suddenly you're an expert. Give me a break please. You're talking utter and complete nonsense without any practical experience. My experience with freesync on a fury Pro and Vega 64 has been flawless and I'd even say amazing compared to the stuttering and tearing I used to enjoy (on my 770 and 970). I wouldn't dream of slagging off G-Sync because I've never used it and I'm sure all Nvidia users like it as much as I Iike freesync and wouldn't go back to crappy 60hz monitors.

I'm not even sure why you bother to post on this Vega thread as nothing you've contributed has been remotely to do with Vega it's all been about how superior you feel about your NVidia card and G-Sync. Find an Nvidia thread to trawl and leave this Vega thread to people who at least are open minded about Vega. In other words get a life.



Got anything besides ad homs and projection?

Try keeping the discussion technical and fact-based.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L |70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|50/1.4 USM|50/2.5 CM|50/1.8 STM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8|24/2.8 IS|Sigma 150-600 | C
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Krogoth
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:22 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
Lordhawkwind wrote:
Have you ever used freesync? Doubt it but you've read a few old reviews and now suddenly you're an expert. Give me a break please. You're talking utter and complete nonsense without any practical experience. My experience with freesync on a fury Pro and Vega 64 has been flawless and I'd even say amazing compared to the stuttering and tearing I used to enjoy (on my 770 and 970). I wouldn't dream of slagging off G-Sync because I've never used it and I'm sure all Nvidia users like it as much as I Iike freesync and wouldn't go back to crappy 60hz monitors.

I'm not even sure why you bother to post on this Vega thread as nothing you've contributed has been remotely to do with Vega it's all been about how superior you feel about your NVidia card and G-Sync. Find an Nvidia thread to trawl and leave this Vega thread to people who at least are open minded about Vega. In other words get a life.



Got anything besides ad homs and projection?

Try keeping the discussion technical and fact-based.


Kinda hard to do with those green-tinted shades bro.
Ivy Bridge i5-3570K@4.0Ghz, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, 2x4GiB of PC3-12800, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-600 and Fractal Refined R4 (W). Kentsfield Q6600@3Ghz, HD 4850 2x2GiB PC2-6400, Gigabyte EP45-DS4P, OCZ Modstream 700W, and PC-7B.
 
Airmantharp
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:29 pm

Krogoth wrote:
Kinda hard to do with those green-tinted shades bro.


More projection :D
Canon 6D|24-105/4L |70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|50/1.4 USM|50/2.5 CM|50/1.8 STM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8|24/2.8 IS|Sigma 150-600 | C
Canon EOS-M|11-22 IS|22/2|EF-M 18-55
 
CScottG
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:01 pm

Hell, I'm still trying to figure-out what all this "back and forth" BS has to do with finding Vega 56 and its MSRP of a stated $399?

I mean, -uck value, where the hell are those $399 cards?


You can find crappy "bundles" for $499, but unless you were absolutely going to purchase those specific games - then you are getting corn-holed on the price.

-btw, in a recent tweet Raja was happy to mention stock of Vega 64 - with a complete absence regarding Vega 56. This might simply be because 56 was released a few days ago.. but I really don't see why they would release anymore Vega 56 cards anytime soon.
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:28 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
I bought a Vega56 at MSRP on Monday.
CScottG wrote:
wccftech wrote:
Vega56 users will get quite a significant speedup because the Vega64 BIOS will enable higher turbo clocks resulting in much faster performance of the Vega56. In fact, according to the same report it is only 2% slower than a Vega64 and faster than the same once overclocked further.
I may try that next week. For now, I'm just glad that I finally have the new card in my hand. :D

P.S.: Here are some 3DMark results for the bone stock Radeon RX Vega56 compared to my super-clocked GeForce GTX980Ti:
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/2312145/spy/2297764
https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/13507995/fs/13485285
i7-8700K, H100i v2, RoG Strix Z370-G Gaming, 16 GiB, RX Vega64, 960Pro SSD, 5TB HDD, Define Mini-C, SS-660XP2, C32HG70, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
Topinio
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:09 pm

My MSRP Vega 56 turned up today, and is doing well enough in my brief initial testing: Superposition has gone from 2200+ to 3600+ and I can max out settings in WoW (in low population areas at least) now :D

Image

Looking forward to seeing the effect on the Rfit, maybe at the weekend.
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX Vega 56, 250GB BX100, 2TB Ultrastar, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + G2420HDB
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030 SC, 250GB BX100, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Pville_Piper
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:17 pm

Looking forward for that as well, what games do you play on the rift Topinio?
Windows10, Antec EA650 Power Supply, Acer XB270H G-synch monitor, MSI Krait Gaming 3X, I7 6700K, 16 gigs of CORSAIR Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz ram, HyperX 3K 240 gig SSD, MSI GTX970
 
Topinio
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:47 am

Pville_Piper wrote:
Looking forward for that as well, what games do you play on the rift Topinio?

I've only had it for 10 days, and was away for most of those :-? but Euro Truck Simulator 2 is what I've played so far, and (other than a slight disorientation) it's great. Lucky's Tale was also fun for the first level, and I'm planning on picking up Star Trek: Bridge Crew while it's half price on Steam today. Need to ceiling-mount the cameras still too...
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX Vega 56, 250GB BX100, 2TB Ultrastar, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + G2420HDB
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030 SC, 250GB BX100, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
ptsant
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Re: Goodbye Vega 56 at MSRP

Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:46 am

Hello.

Since the initial discussion concerned the prowess of Vega 56 as a mining card and the corresponding effect on prices, I would add that recent efforts with appropriate tuning seem to put Vega at a similar or higher perf/W than the best RX 580/480 cards out there. It hits ~44MH/s, which is the absolute best hashrate of any card in the market, if I am not mistaken.

For perf/$ RX480/580 is probably best, given its recent availability (I can find it in stock where I live, but around $300). However, people are willing to pay a $$ premium in order to max the hashrate of a given system (ie for a given number of PCIe slots) so it still makes sense to buy the Vega over the 580.

Anyway, I think that the pressure on Vega prices will continue for a while. I know I won't be getting one at these prices (just like I didn't get a 1070...).
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