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Arclight
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Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:11 am

Hello,

I have an older PC with a GTX 560 ti that is acting up and I'm looking for a replacement. I don't play any demanding games on it so I was thinking that anything that is about equivalent from the low end side would work fine. Can the GT 1030 perform about the same or is a lot weaker? Can't really find a lot of benchmarks, if it's not equivalent in terms of performance, should I consider the GTX 1050 or is there anything better from AMD? I haven't kept up with graphics card releases, so I welcome any advice.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:31 am

What is your system specs, games you play and monitor resolution? Without knowing that my advice is always to buy the best GPU you can afford. Sure, you only play older games and don't need the power. But, what if something comes along that you want to play and you need more umph... Why limit yourself. Personally, I would recommend running a GTX 1050ti or 1050 (or the AMD equivalent). These are not expensive and would allow you to play a wider variety of games.
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Arclight
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:48 am

It's not worth getting the GTX 1050 ti or better since it's an old system that would be bottlenecked by the CPU which is a Phenom quad core. The games I play are what now would be considered retro like Counter Strike, Left4Dead and other source engine based games. I only need a GTX 560 ti equivalent of better from the low end. If it's a lot weaker then I will step up to the GTX 1050 but that's already overkill. The reviews seem to be a year old as well, will there be a next gen replacement launched in the next couple of months? Also, what are the AMD equivalents exactly? I assume that's the RX 550 and RX 560.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:08 am

The GT 1030 is actually in the same ballpark as the GTX 560 Ti in terms of performance - at worst (in old DX9 games) it'll be a very close match for the 560 Ti. In newer DX12 and Vulkan games you're going to see up to 50% improvements, especially when it comes to minimum framerates and overall consistency.

The only reason to get one would be that you are after something low-noise and low power - there are passively cooled options that I would highly recommend for this role, and also as ideal drop-ins for computers with ageing power supplies that you're not so sure about and don't have the motivation to replace the PSU in.

The sweet spot for gaming right now is probably a 1060 3GB since this is around 20% more expensive than a 1050Ti but offers around 40% more performance. Anything more expensive than this (ie, has 4+ GB of VRAM) is going to be overpriced due to the crypocurrency mining demand. There's little point buying a faster card than the 1030 unless you actually have plans for AAA gaming at 1080p resolutions. The 1030 will be adequate for even modern games if you're happy with 1080p30 at good details or 60fps achievable if you drop the resolution to 720p. At any rate, Games like CS:S and L4D2 run fine on a potato like the GT 710 - and the GT1030 is easily 4x the card that the horrid old Kepler-based 710 is.

Here's a link to a bunch of popular modern games running on a GT 1030 and a lowly i3.

There's nothing new coming for a while at the GT1030's range, since it's the latest Pascal silicon and Volta will probably launch in the order of "Quadro compute", then High-end, then mainstream, and then maybe even skip the low-end like Maxwell sort of did (the 1st gen Maxwell 750Ti didn't get a refresh for the 900-series, it was just relablelled a lot for laptops and entry-level OEM cards). The AMD alternative to the GT1030 is the RX 550 and it's similar in performance but not available in a passively-cooled option and also around $20 more expensive.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:22 am

Several months ago I would have recommended grabbing a second hand GTX 660, 660 Ti or 670 on eBay for a pittance... but the prices on those seem to have gone up lately. They were popping up for $40-$60 for a while, but now they seem to creep into the $80+shipping range which is a rip off. There isn't much to go on, but the best I can surmise is that a 670 is somewhere between a 1050 and 1050 Ti. A 660 is likely just below a 1050. I upgraded from a 560 Ti to a 660 years ago, and there was an improvement in heat, power consumption, noise and performance. I'd put your 560 Ti somewhere between the 1030 and 1050 in older titles like the ones you mentioned, though it likely only has 1GB of RAM which is getting to be a bigger deal.

A 1030 may be an improvement in some areas and a downgrade in others... its hard to say. The 1030 trades blows with the 750 Ti in this review, which is one of the few reviews available online. The 750 Ti trades blows with the 560 Ti depending on the game you're playing.

I'd get a 1050 if you can find one under $100... which is also getting harder. They used to go on sale for $80-$100 all the time, but that is getting rare.

EDITED Due to every review for these cards showing different results, because TR doesn't review low end graphics cards...
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:32 am

If you play games at all, I would have a hard time recommending anything less capable than a $147 GeForce GTX 1050Ti 4GB or $130 Radeon RX 560 4GB. These will handle all of your old games very well at 1080p and provide an acceptable experience with new games, too. The problem with the $113 GeForce GTX 1050 2GB or the $85 Radeon RX 550 2GB is going to be the "2GB" part. Modern games like more memory than that.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:13 pm

It looks like the 1030 has 384/24/16 (Shaders/TMUs/ROPs) versus 384/64/32 of the 560 Ti (albeit at 50% higher clocks, so you can multiply the 1030 numbers by 1.5 for comparison). You'll gain shading power, but lose elsewhere, even with architectural improvements closing the gap a bit. If you're playing mostly older games, it'll be a slight downgrade. Most notable is that you'll be going from 128GB/s of memory bandwidth down to 48GB/s.

If you had nothing at the moment I'd say a 1030 is okay, but coming from a 560 Ti, it's not really worth spending on less than a 1050.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:34 pm

Are they're any major gains from a hardware decode by upgrading?
 
ozzuneoj
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:59 pm

Here you go:
https://www.evga.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?type=8

Right now there's an EVGA GTX 1050 Ti SSC Gaming (dual fan model) for $129 with free shipping. Its "B-Stock" but I've never had a problem with any of these and they have a one year warranty. Every B-Stock card I've ever bought from EVGA has looked brand new and most still have the plastic film on their heatsink shrouds.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:11 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Are they're any major gains from a hardware decode by upgrading?

I'm shooting from the hip here, but I'm not aware of Pascal being any better than Fermi-2 in that regard. His CPU should be able to handle video playback without the hardware assist in either case. The 1030 will use substantially less power though.

Worth noting, I just re-read the original post, and realized he said his 560 Ti was having problems. That makes going with a 1030 more acceptable IMO, but I'd also strongly consider a used 750 Ti. As mentioned elsewhere, TR should really consider doing a low-end card roundup.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:14 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Are they're any major gains from a hardware decode by upgrading?


In HEVC and VP9 yes, in H.264 no.

The big thing missing on nVidia's cards at the moment is Displayport Adaptive Sync (aka Freesync) so if you're likely to replace your monitor in the life of the card then I'd definitely stick to the AMD options.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:18 pm

My concern with getting a GTX 1050 (Ti) is that they are overkill for this aging PC and will be outdated by the time I rebuild it. There is also the issue of the motherboard having only gen 2.0 PCI-E slots, I assume the physical dimensions are the same with these cards but I seem to recall that the new standard offers more power from the slot itself. If I get a GTX 1050 for example, because it doesn't have an additional 6 pin connector, would it throttle due to the older slot? Would it BSOD due to the driver thinking the motherboard is defective? The PSU is 500 W and the card is way easier to power than the GTX 560 Ti, if it had an external plug, from the motherboard slot, I'm not sure it will work fine.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:48 pm

Arclight wrote:
There is also the issue of the motherboard having only gen 2.0 PCI-E slots....
Starting with version 1.0, all x16 slots are supposed to provide 75w through the slot alone. A stock 1030 is rated 30w (very impressive), so even an OC model should have lots of headroom on just the slot.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:09 pm

The Egg wrote:
Arclight wrote:
There is also the issue of the motherboard having only gen 2.0 PCI-E slots....
Starting with version 1.0, all x16 slots are supposed to provide 75w through the slot alone. A stock 1030 is rated 30w (very impressive), so even an OC model should have lots of headroom on just the slot.

And if you get the 1050, then as long as your PSU has the 6-pin PCIe connector (or u make one with an adapter with 2 molex connnectors), it should be fine too.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:01 pm

Arclight wrote:
There is also the issue of the motherboard having only gen 2.0 PCI-E slots,

Hold that thought, the 1030 also only has four lanes of PCIe. Normally x4 or 2.0 wouldn't be a notable issue at this performance level, but both at the same time might start to more seriously get in the way.

(I agree that the 1050 or 1050 Ti are hugely overkill.)
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:29 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
Arclight wrote:
There is also the issue of the motherboard having only gen 2.0 PCI-E slots,

Hold that thought, the 1030 also only has four lanes of PCIe. Normally x4 or 2.0 wouldn't be a notable issue at this performance level, but both at the same time might start to more seriously get in the way.

(I agree that the 1050 or 1050 Ti are hugely overkill.)

That could be an issue.

This is certainly a tough time to upgrade your GPU... pricing and availability of everything but the top tier cards is really bad compared to years past. I'd check some popular for sale\trade forums for a decent second hand card that fits your needs for $50 or less. I don't think it'd be best to get a modern entry level card that may have unforeseen shortcomings and be too weak to be worth passing on to a better gaming system later, especially when coupling it with an older system to play older games.

[H] has a very active selling community. Otherwise you could make a thread in the Bargain Basement here asking for a deal on a card.

I honestly wouldn't bother putting a lot of money into a card that wasn't at least GTX 1050 level performance. Right now, the prices are just too high. The 1050 Ti for $129 is the best deal you're going to find under $180, and it would be decent enough to go into a better system later. If you can find a GTX 670 or something in that range, you'll get 1050 level performance in older games for a much lower cost, and it won't feel quite so much like putting an unnecessarily modern card into an old system. If the 1050 could still be had in the $80-$100 range on sale, things would be different... but at $120, you might as well get something better, and at that point you're spending too much.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:16 am

Arclight wrote:
My concern with getting a GTX 1050 (Ti) is that they are overkill for this aging PC and will be outdated by the time I rebuild it. There is also the issue of the motherboard having only gen 2.0 PCI-E slots, I assume the physical dimensions are the same with these cards but I seem to recall that the new standard offers more power from the slot itself. If I get a GTX 1050 for example, because it doesn't have an additional 6 pin connector, would it throttle due to the older slot? Would it BSOD due to the driver thinking the motherboard is defective? The PSU is 500 W and the card is way easier to power than the GTX 560 Ti, if it had an external plug, from the motherboard slot, I'm not sure it will work fine.



PCIe bandwidth only matters to high end cards running at low resolutions where the framerate is very high and there are loads of frames to render. This does not sound like a scenario for an entry level card running in an old Phenom.

Even if you were to get a GTX 1080 and run it a PCIe 2.0 x4 over an old motherboard, you'd be getting ~90% of the 1080's performance anyway:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVI ... ng/24.html

  • You either want the lowest power card that will comfortably do what you want (GTX 1030)
  • Or you want the performance/$ sweet spot right now, for if you plan to play future AAA games (GTX 1060 3GB)

Personally, for an old Phenom with potentially dubious motherboard or PSU power delivery, dialling it back to a 30W passive GTX 1030 for only $65 seems like a sensible option that is most likely to extend the life of your old platform, plus - if the board/PSU does still die you can likely put a 1030 into one of these because it'll be half-height and requires no extra PCIe power connectors.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:46 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
PCIe bandwidth only matters to high end cards running at low resolutions where the framerate is very high and there are loads of frames to render. This does not sound like a scenario for an entry level card running in an old Phenom.

Even if you were to get a GTX 1080 and run it a PCIe 2.0 x4 over an old motherboard, you'd be getting ~90% of the 1080's performance anyway:
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVI ... ng/24.html

Lack of PCIe bandwidth is more likely to cause frametime problems than framerate problems, and I've never seen testing of PCIe bandwidth's effects that properly accounts for that.

Consider the workload of moving a 32MB texture from main RAM to VRAM. (That's 4k*4k and RGB + XY + one other channel all compressed S3TC in the typical way for a total of 16bpp - high-ish resolution, but 16bpp is tiny by current standards.) With PCIe 3.0 x16 at 16 GB/s, that texture takes 2 millis to transfer. With PCIe 2.0 x4 at 2 GB/s, it takes 16 millis. This isn't doing anything as simple as just adding to frametimes, but you can see how game tech developed with some assumption of 16 GB/s (or faster, as in consoles) CPU <-> GPU comms could get in frametime trouble if it finds itself with only 2 GB/s.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:20 pm

It honestly sounds like you know what you're talking about, but it's a moot point;

FCAT testing shows that PCie scaling has minimum or negligible effect on frame times. It's easy to overthink this stuff, but in the end, someone, somewhere will have tested it and posted it on the web so that you don't have to think about it.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:28 pm

Aha, thanks for the actual data! I'm not sure it's so final as you're thinking, though - the lowest config tested still has twice the bandwidth of the 1030 config in question here, it's a bit of a small sample size, none of the games tested save possibly SoM are ones I would expect to have issues with that, and they're using built-in benches where available (SoM is open-world and its built-in bench doesn't reflect that, for one). It should be plenty to say the 1030 will be fine for the OP at least.

Chrispy_ wrote:
It's easy to overthink this stuff, but in the end, someone, somewhere will have tested it and posted it on the web so that you don't have to think about it.

I wish that were true.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:19 am

For old Source engine games, I'm sure the 1030 will do great, and will make your PC a lot quieter at the same time (so long as you get a passive card).
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:06 am

I appear to be the only one that believes that the GeForce GT1030 is a waste of money for gaming. Performance of this graphics card in any modern game is going to be unsatisfactory.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:19 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
I appear to be the only one that believes that the GeForce GT1030 is a waste of money for gaming. Performance of this graphics card in any modern game is going to be unsatisfactory.


OP said he doesn't intend to play modern games.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:22 am

You'll be fine with the GT1030 if you really don't want to spend money. I'd go for a non-Ti simple 1050 at least, but a $70 or so passive GT1030 is hard to fault. Seems like you'll be at the same level or faster in almost every game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLAs8S7x6PY
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:42 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
I appear to be the only one that believes that the GeForce GT1030 is a waste of money for gaming. Performance of this graphics card in any modern game is going to be unsatisfactory.


I have a lot of experience with the laptop variant (MX150) and as you hint at, it's barely a 1080p card. In fact, 1080p30 still requires you to drop some details from High or Ultra to medium or "off". However, at the 1366x768 laptop resolution it's usually paired with, 60fps with medium settings in a high-res textured, DX12 game at better-than-HD resoltion isn't so bad for something so cheap and low-power. Not everything needs to be about 4K ultra 144Hz gaming with zero dropped frames.

The key requirements from the OP seem to be that he only plays games on 10-year-old engines and that his old card is acting up with an old, 500W PSU. I'd suspect the system power-delivery to equally, or perhaps even more suspect than the old 560 Ti which is actually a 210W GPU. People would cower at the idea of running a 210W Vega RX on on a 500W PSU today, but that's effectively what the OP is currently doing and back in the Fermi days that was the norm. Going for something cheap, silent, zero-moving parts, and incredibly low power draw seems to be far more sensible than spending a significant amount of money on a very dated platform.
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:18 am

If you have to replace a broken card, then I guess the 1030 works. Comparing them at userbenchmarks makes it seem a little self-defeating, though; about a 25% performance loss indicated there.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:39 am

I was actually mildly surprised by the 1030. Sadly, almost drawing even with a midrange card from several generations ago is a big improvement for this segment. Generally you get useless garbage which is only good for more display outputs.

I'd be interested to see how much the 64-bit 48GB/s memory interface cripples the card in practice, but as mentioned, you'd need to see actual testing.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:52 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
I appear to be the only one that believes that the GeForce GT1030 is a waste of money for gaming. Performance of this graphics card in any modern game is going to be unsatisfactory.


A Vanilla 1050 would be the right card for this use case, true... but since he doesn't need the performance he may as well save a tiny amount of money getting a 1030. At this kind of price point I'd consider skipping a lunch or two to get the better card, but there are also power concerns.
 
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Re: Would it make sense to replace a GTX 560 Ti with GT 1030?

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:16 am

Two things that are unknown are the budget and the stability of the rest of the PC.

Another reason to take a 1030 over a 1050 is that 1030 cards are usually half-height and if Arclight is trying to keep an ancient Phenom platform going, one of those reasons is likely cost, and the alternative to endlessly replacing parts (if the PSU/board turn out to be the problem) is to just get an office refurb for a couple of hundred bucks. Many of the better value, higher-spec office-refurbs are SFF HP/Dell/Lenovo designs that won't take a full-height GPU like most 1050s but will happilly accommodate a half-height 1030.

I'm jumping to conclusions of course, since the old 560 Ti might be the only thing wrong with the current PC but it's a quiet afternoon here so what the hell... :)
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