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lmc768
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upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:55 pm

Hi!

My daughter wants to upgrade her graphics card for mor gaming. I am totally stupid when it comes to this, but I wanted to get a good one for her birthday. Our desktop is a HP Envy 700 Desktop (23in, AMD Elite, 8GB, 1TB). Budget friendly please :)

Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:32 pm

Hi, welcome to Tech Report!

I don't think we can offer much advice without a few more details--the PC system model doesn't tell us its exact component configuration, which we need to know. First, can you answer these questions:
    What types of games does she play?
    What is your exact budget?
    What is the current video card?
    What is the wattage of the power supply?
    What is the model of CPU?
    It has 8 GB RAM? Do you know its speed?
    What is the motherboard model?

This is a small piece of software you might consider using that will give a detailed breakdown of the computer's hardware...Read about it first please before deciding if it might be helpful https://www.belarc.com/products_belarc_advisor
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:04 pm

Yes, there are roughly 2 dozen different configurations that HP has sold under the Envy 700 name. There should be a label with the exact model on the back of the case somewhere. Also, if anything has previously been upgraded from the stock configuration, we would need to know that as well.
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Topinio
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:12 pm

HP product names are awful, do you know which exact model you have?

There appear to be 124 models of "HP Envy 700", at least 4 motherboards, several PSUs, and both Ivy Bridge and Haswell CPUs (if not more).

If not, try https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp ... t/bph07555 to find out.
Last edited by Topinio on Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:19 pm

My "2 dozen" guesstimate was based on the list of models on the page I found via a quick Google search. Obviously you found a more comprehensive page than I did! :lol:
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:22 pm

As Neutronbeam has already said, knowing what games she intends to play makes a big difference. Some games can get by with a modest GPU, while there are other games that can be challenging for even the most powerful graphics cards.

If you can get a couple of titles that she wants to play it would help us guide you to an appropriate card.
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:26 pm

just brew it! wrote:
My "2 dozen" guesstimate was based on the list of models on the page I found via a quick Google search. Obviously you found a more comprehensive page than I did! :lol:

Hah. 6 pages, all 3 or more clicks into the support site.

Also, did I mention I hate HP?

Seriously, 124 models of "Envy 700", some with AMD chipsets and CPUs and some with Intel? Across multiple generations?

This is literally why model names/numbers exist, people! The "Envy 700" is meaningless now, just silly and confusing.

Model numbers: 700-000ec 700-000t 700-000z 700-001er 700-010 700-010eo 700-010xt 700-014eb 700-019 700-020ed 700-027c 700-029eb 700-030 700-030qe 700-037ez 700-038d 700-040d 700-047c 700-049 700-050 700-050ef 700-056 700-059c 700-060 700-060ea 700-074 700-092d 700-106eo 700-109c 700-110es 700-130 700-147c 700-149 700-150 700-159 700-165eg 700-200d 700-200z CTO 700-203eo 700-204eo 700-209 700-210 700-210xt 700-214 700-215xt 700-216 700-229c 700-230 700-230ea 700-230qe 700-232kr 700-239 700-249 700-275d 700-277ez 700-281eo 700-292d 700-300nr 700-300z CTO 700-301nd 700-302ng 700-304ng 700-304no 700-306no 700-309nb 700-310xt 700-311 700-311na 700-325d 700-327c 700-329 700-330qe CTO 700-339 700-340d 700-340nz 700-349 700-367nz 700-370d 700-375d 700-392d 700-470kr 700-400nd 700-400z CTO 700-401ns 700-406 700-406no 700-410xt 700-411 700-414 700-430qe CTO 700-450nr 700-453nl 700-467nz 700-470na 700-481no 700-410 700-500na 700-500ny 700-500z CTO 700-501ny 700-501ur 700-502ng 700-509c 700-510no 700-514nb 700-515no 700-515xt 700-517no 700-527c 700-529 700-530qe 700-531nx 700-540d 700-545no 700-550d 700-550na 700-560jp 700-567nz 700-570jp 700-570kr 700-570na 700-575d 700-590nf 700-592d

Codenames of possible motherboards: JasmineR, Joshua, Formosa, Kaili, Kaili2, MemphisB, Orchid-S

PSU: 300, 460, 600

I give up until OP can tell us which model, and F HP: why are there are AMD ones (e.g. the HP ENVY 700-000z) as well as Intel ones??
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:31 pm

OP did mention "AMD Elite", but I'm not even sure what that means, since it's not the name of an AMD CPU or platform. AMD CPU? AMD GPU? Both? I have no idea.

Definitely need the exact model #.
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:13 pm

I'll bite: Look at this GTX1050Ti 4GB for $175
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487290

Only qualifier would be to make sure that your case isn't one of those "slim" ones. If the case is 6-8" wide, you're good.
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:05 pm

It's a low-end APU from the Richland generation.

Get a new computer.
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:13 pm

The posters seeking more information are all correct, but a little explanation may help.

A web search using your specs, including the "AMD Elite" processor name, turns up an HP 700-210. The specs for that machine show that it used what HP or AMD marketed as an AMD Elite A10 APU (which is a processor with integrated graphics.) If the model number is correct, the case is large enough for a budget graphics card, and there are slots on the motherboard that would support a graphics card.

The suggested GTX 1050 from Newegg likely would be a good choice, but even then the posters above are right in asking what games your daughter wants to play. A really graphics heavy game would need a more powerful graphics card, and a really processor heavy game will need more CPU than you would be getting from the AMD (assuming that the web search on what you told us produced the correct model.) A roommate of mine, for example, recently downloaded a game from Alienware that would run on the graphics card I had bought him but requires a much more powerful processor than he has, so it all depends on what you daughter wants to play.
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:17 pm

lmc768 wrote:
Budget friendly please

techguy wrote:
Get a new computer.

Even if it's a Richland APU, it's still perfectly capable of powering a "budget friendly" graphics card at 1920x1080 resolution. Not to mention that a new ~$500 OEM computer probably wouldn't even come with discrete graphics anyway (not to mention having the same 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hdd), so the OP would be right back here still looking for a graphics card.
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:53 pm

I think you scared them off :(
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:04 pm

DPete27 wrote:
lmc768 wrote:
Budget friendly please

techguy wrote:
Get a new computer.

Even if it's a Richland APU, it's still perfectly capable of powering a "budget friendly" graphics card at 1920x1080 resolution. Not to mention that a new ~$500 OEM computer probably wouldn't even come with discrete graphics anyway (not to mention having the same 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hdd), so the OP would be right back here still looking for a graphics card.


Sure it's fine, if you don't play real games. Maybe the Sims or some of that eSports crap.
 
lmc768
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:02 pm

techguy wrote:
It's a low-end APU from the Richland generation.

Get a new computer.





Well I am a single mother of 2 with bills, so money doesn't fall off the tree like that for me....I just wanted to get something she might enjoy for her birthday!!
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:07 pm

Neutronbeam wrote:
Hi, welcome to Tech Report!

I don't think we can offer much advice without a few more details--the PC system model doesn't tell us its exact component configuration, which we need to know. First, can you answer these questions:
    What types of games does she play?
    Overwatch, Minecraft, Skyrim, Fortnite

    What is your exact budget?
    Up to 200

    What is the current video card?
    AMD Radcon HD 867OD

    What is the wattage of the power supply?
    That I am not sure

    What is the model of CPU?
    AMD A10-6700 APU with Radcon(tm) HD Graphics

    It has 8 GB RAM? Do you know its speed?
    3.70 GHz

    What is the motherboard model?
700-210

This is a small piece of software you might consider using that will give a detailed breakdown of the computer's hardware...Read about it first please before deciding if it might be helpful https://www.belarc.com/products_belarc_advisor
 
lmc768
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:18 pm

techguy wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
lmc768 wrote:
Budget friendly please

techguy wrote:
Get a new computer.

Even if it's a Richland APU, it's still perfectly capable of powering a "budget friendly" graphics card at 1920x1080 resolution. Not to mention that a new ~$500 OEM computer probably wouldn't even come with discrete graphics anyway (not to mention having the same 8GB of RAM and a 1TB hdd), so the OP would be right back here still looking for a graphics card.


Sure it's fine, if you don't play real games. Maybe the Sims or some of that eSports crap.




IF you cannot be helpful, I'd rather not see your post. Like I said, I am a single mom, I don;t know much about computers So no need to be sarcastic about my question or the computer I could afford, and I just want here to have something for her birthday. I have to save a little at a time to even get this, so next time when somebody asked for help, be a little more considerate. THank YOU
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:36 pm

My first comment was serious, though the second was tongue-in-cheek.

That computer almost certainly does not have a power supply capable of supporting a "real" graphics card (i.e. one that requires a power connector), so you will have to buy a new power supply in addition to the graphics card. Additionally, the CPU is woefully inadequate, it was low-end when it came out, it's borderline archaic now.

You truly are better off buying another computer. If money is an issue, I would suggest searching Craigslist for a used gaming PC that is in your price range.
 
lmc768
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:43 pm

techguy wrote:
My first comment was serious, though the second was tongue-in-cheek.

That computer almost certainly does not have a power supply capable of supporting a "real" graphics card (i.e. one that requires a power connector), so you will have to buy a new power supply in addition to the graphics card. Additionally, the CPU is woefully inadequate, it was low-end when it came out, it's borderline archaic now.

You truly are better off buying another computer. If money is an issue, I would suggest searching Craigslist for a used gaming PC that is in your price range.




OK that was helpful, so thanks. I was afraid of that. When I got it she wasn't into gaming much, so I got what I could afford. So looks like I will have to figure something else out
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:31 pm

It isn't *that* terrible a CPU - it's still at least as powerful as a baseline PS4 or Xbox One CPU, for one reference point.

I wouldn't put $200 into it, but it won't take much to be a significant upgrade in graphics. A GDDR5 1030 like this or this only draws 30W nominally, and will likely fit within what the existing power supply can handle. That should be at minimum a 2x boost to effective graphics power, and in some cases much more.

That should put the total power draw of the system around 110 to 130W. I've never seen a power supply in a computer like that that couldn't handle at least 150W, but it may be worth checking anyway. Most likely, if you open up the computer's case, the power supply will have a label visible which will include how much it's rated for.
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:38 pm

lmc768 wrote:
techguy wrote:
My first comment was serious, though the second was tongue-in-cheek.

That computer almost certainly does not have a power supply capable of supporting a "real" graphics card (i.e. one that requires a power connector), so you will have to buy a new power supply in addition to the graphics card. Additionally, the CPU is woefully inadequate, it was low-end when it came out, it's borderline archaic now.

You truly are better off buying another computer. If money is an issue, I would suggest searching Craigslist for a used gaming PC that is in your price range.




OK that was helpful, so thanks. I was afraid of that. When I got it she wasn't into gaming much, so I got what I could afford. So looks like I will have to figure something else out


What games is she playing? This will help us steer you towards solutions that can work for you.
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:42 pm

rogue426 wrote:
What games is she playing? This will help us steer you towards solutions that can work for you.
lmc768 wrote:
Neutronbeam wrote:
Hi, welcome to Tech Report!

I don't think we can offer much advice without a few more details--the PC system model doesn't tell us its exact component configuration, which we need to know. First, can you answer these questions:
[list]What types of games does she play?
Overwatch, Minecraft, Skyrim, Fortnite
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:15 pm

lmc768 wrote:

What types of games does she play?
Overwatch, Minecraft, Skyrim, Fortnite

What is your exact budget?
Up to 200

None of the games you mention is particularly demanding. The Econobox Alternative suggests a Gigabyte GeForce GT 1030, $ 90 at NewEgg, and that should do the job.

Edit: Your system has a 300 W power supply, and the video card's specifications say this: "System PSU Limitation: 300 W". I'm not sure whether that means that 300 W exactly is OK or isn't. I'll let someone else answer that.
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:05 pm

Those numbers are always hugely overspecced to account for other things in the system - the actual draw of that card is around 30W, and the main other thing in the system is the CPU with a 65W TDP. If it's got a 300W power supply, it's definitely good to go.

If the power supply is that little of an issue, it might be worth looking at an RX 550 for a touch more speed. An RX 560 or GTX 1050 / Ti would also work, and would still be a lot snappier than the 550 or 1030, but the CPU does start to make those a less convincing value.
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:44 pm

If your budget can stand $150 for a Radeon RX560 4GB or $175 for a GeForce GTX1050Ti 4GB, those cards are likely to provide a reasonably good gaming experience in all games at 1920x1080 resolution. While there are slightly less expensive graphics cards available that would be a noticeable upgrade from your integrated graphics, they would still struggle with newer AAA games.
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:17 am

synthtel2 wrote:
It isn't *that* terrible a CPU - it's still at least as powerful as a baseline PS4 or Xbox One CPU, for one reference point.


That's being somewhat conservative. A quad-core Piledriver at 3.7GHz is absolutely going to pound the snot out of 8 lame Jaguar cores in the XBone/PS4. Vastly superior lightly-thread performance and superior aggregate MT performance. And without having to share its RAM bandwidth with the GPU it may even stretch its legs a little further.

I was playing Skyrim quite comfortably on my Q6600 @ 2.4GHz. Richland would completely curb-stomp that old mofo.
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:20 am

General rule of thumb is, "Buy as much Graphics card as your budget and Power Supply will allow."

And JustAnEngineer is always spot on with his recommendations.

Also shop Amazon, Newegg, Microcenter, Frys, ... for sales on name brands like EVGA, Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, ...
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:35 am

I found a review that should help clear things up:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Zotac-GeF ... 134.0.html

The GT 1030, with a MUCH faster CPU than the fastest Richland APU ever made, runs modern games at 1080p/high in the teens and 20s. The only games that do better are The Sims (like I said) and FIFA. Overwatch (which is on the OP's list) hits 54.5 FPS, which is probably enough for most people - but again, on a MUCH faster CPU.

Personally, I wouldn't risk it. Will it be better than the APU's graphics? Sure. Is it enough to make it worthwhile? Only under limited conditions:

1) play non-demanding (i.e. old, or very light workload "mainstream" games)
2) reduce settings drastically

To get faster than a GT 1030 you get up into the range of GPUs that require additional power via a dedicated cable from the power supply, one your system isn't likely to have and if it did, would probably melt down at some point. Those OEM PSUs are garbage.

This "300W" PSU is a match for the search string "HP Envy 700 desktop power supply"

https://www.cpumedics.com/5188-2625.htm ... TMQAvD_BwE

19A on the 12V rail. That's not enough for *any* modern graphics card that requires external power.

If you search with the aforementioned string you'll find lots of users wanting to *gasp* replace their PSU because *shock* it's not adequate for their desired GPU upgrade!



lmc68: you can take the advice of a bunch of well-meaning people in this thread and just go and buy the only graphics card that will work in your HP Envy computer and hope that it's good enough, or you can look at the information I've provided and come to an informed decision. You *should* buy a faster graphics card. You will *need* a better power supply to support this. My guess is you will need to have these professionally installed. Your price for all this will likely be somewhere in the $300-400 range. At that point a much faster computer just makes sense. You can get a new PC with an actual graphics card (like the RX550 or 560) starting around $550 from Micro Center:

http://www.microcenter.com/search/searc ... 4294848337

That is your best choice, in my opinion as a person who has been building, tweaking, overclocking, and repairing PCs for the last 25 years.
 
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:17 am

OP: your daughter's computer has a 5 year old processor which wasn't great at the time (review), but it is a serviceable desktop still. Particularly with 8 GB RAM, and I guess Windows 10 (though maybe still Windows 8.1) and you might be able to get another few years out of it before it becomes sluggish, maybe even another 5 of usage too, if you're lucky.

However, you can't exactly expect it to last, the intended lifespan of these things is 3-5 years. If it does, great, but I would be cautious about putting money into it at this time, and probably wouldn't, especially if budget is tight. Now would be a good time to start saving up to replace the whole machine. If she's going to be old enough to have some independence in a couple of years, I might start saving for replacing it with a laptop, maybe starting that off with some of this birthday's budget if that's the sort of thing you could do?

However, if she's gaming and her PC really can't keep up, I would consider a graphics upgrade, to keep her happily playing and enjoying the activity and the happiness it can bring, rather than be frustrated by the limitations of her PC. You do have to be very careful on power budget, though, because that computer's power supply is not so great. Probably a ~50 W card is okay, I wouldn't want to go above that really, and I think you absolutely have to stay under 75 W.

I would look at a $130-$150 AMD Radeon RX 560 4 GB, the 14 CU (896 SP) version because it uses less power than the 16 CU (1024 SP version) (example). But this is only if she is running Windows 10. If she is still on Windows 8.1, it will need to be a NVIDIA graphics card due to lack of Windows 8.1 driver support from AMD.

The only low-power usage NVIDIA card in the current generation is the $90-$100 GeForce GT 1030 2 GB, which I don't recommend despite owning one. It's too slow to be worth spending money on, and has too little RAM too. Even Rocket League on that card is a struggle. It will be probably better than the integrated graphics which the PC has, but not by much. The GT 1030 2 GB which I have is not better than the Radeon HD 7750 1 GB previously installed, and your daughter's Radeon HD 8670D is probably not too much worse than my old HD 7750 (though probably a gerbil here will correct me...)

But again, I would buy it in your shoes, if my daughter was very frustrated with her gaming hobby by the PC, and if I had no way to provide a better / replacement PC within the next few months -- keeping the happiness from the hobby is so important with kids...

HTH, and good luck with the birthday present whatever you decide to do!
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Re: upgrading a graphics card

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:04 am

techguy wrote:
To get faster than a GT 1030 you get up into the range of GPUs that require additional power via a dedicated cable from the power supply, one your system isn't likely to have.
The relevant 4-pin Molex to 6-pin PCIe power adapters are very frequently included in the box with the graphics card, or you can purchase them separately for under $5, delivered.

techguy wrote:
... and if it did, would probably melt down at some point. Those OEM PSUs are garbage. 19A on the 12V rail. That's not enough for *any* modern graphics card that requires external power.
You make a valid point. A GeForce GTX1050Ti 4GB graphics card can require up to 75 watts by itself. The OEM "300 watt" power supply produces 19 amperes x 12 volts = 228 watts DC. With 85% efficiency, that would look like 268 watts from the wall AC. If we added an inexpensive power supply upgrade for $30, we could still do this for close to the OP's $200 budget.


While there may be newer processors available that are more powerful than the Richland A10 APU, most games are going to run just fine once it has a decent discrete gaming graphics card.
Last edited by JustAnEngineer on Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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