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adampk17 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:12 pm

First my system, i7-8086k, Nvidia 970, and a 1440p Gsync 144 Hz monitor. Second, my games. I mainly play World of Warcraft (I know!) with a very small dabbling in new(ish) shooters like Sniper 4. I realize WoW is not super demanding but I would like to play it with all the settings turned up to max at 1440p and my 970 can't do that, not by a long shot.

I had been excited to wait for the next generation, what has turned out to be the 2080, but since the announcement most of the prognosticators I've read/watched are rather dour about the new series, particularly from a price/performance perspective. Ray Tracing looks neat but I don't think its going to hit its prime with this generation of card.

I'm willing to spend what I think is a princely sum for a new GPU, $600-$700. So now I'm wondering if I don't just pull the trigger on a 1080 Ti before they dry up. The 20X0 series cards in that price range don't sound like they will be any faster than the 1080 Ti, perhaps even slower.

Opinions?

edited for punctuation

DancinJack · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:19 pm

IMO this one is easy. Get a 1080 Ti in the next month or so.

DPete27 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:31 pm

As much as Nvidia will hype it, RT isn't going to become ubiquitous over night. They really need AMD to jump on the RT bandwagon (since AMD owns the consoles) for it to take off. By the time it's being done RIGHT (cough, PhysX), you'll probably be looking for an upgrade again.

I'm not sure how much of the die area they dedicated to RT, but whatever amount it was is going to go unused most of the time for the next couple years. So you're paying for features that won't be used some/most of the time at the cost of die area that could've been used for "traditional" graphics processing.

It seems like RT induces a fair amount of stress on the system, even with dedicated hardware acceleration (Tomb raider demo @ barely 60fps @ 1080p on an RTX2080Ti, etc etc) so inherently, RT will be the first thing users turn off to preserve frame rates.

That said, keep in mind that the RTX2080 will probably outperform the GTX1080Ti (if Nvidia's history is anything to go by) once we see real benchmarks. So keep that pecking order in mind.

ColeLT1 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:37 pm

DancinJack wrote:
IMO this one is easy. Get a 1080 Ti in the next month or so.

Agreed, and prices are dropping quick.

I had half a dozen I needed to sell (mine and friend's cards), and every week have been getting less and less, just sold one yesterday for $500, was getting $600-700 3 weeks ago. I'm hanging onto one until my 2080 comes in.

adampk17 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:42 pm

DPete27 wrote:

That said, keep in mind that the RTX2080 will probably outperform the GTX1080Ti (if Nvidia's history is anything to go by) once we see real benchmarks. So keep that pecking order in mind.

Yep. The problem is that the news I've been reading say 20% faster, at best. Then you run in to the steep price for the 2080 and that's where I start looking at the 1080 Ti.

Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:54 pm

Get a used GTX 1080 Ti. At least around here, they're flooding the used cards market at ridiculously low prices.

DancinJack · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:56 pm

morphine wrote:
Get a used GTX 1080 Ti. At least around here, they're flooding the used cards market at ridiculously-low prices.

We don't have a great used card market here in the US to be honest. Unless you're part of a community, like TR, it can be hard to find reputable sources for such items. Prices may come down enough in the next month it's a non-issues for the OP, but worth a shot to look around.

dragontamer5788 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:57 pm

DPete27 wrote:
That said, keep in mind that the RTX2080 will probably outperform the GTX1080Ti (if Nvidia's history is anything to go by) once we see real benchmarks. So keep that pecking order in mind.

I'm not sure how much we can rely on history.

RTX 2080 has 2944 CUDA cores at 1710 "Boost" MHz.

GTX 1080 Ti has 3584 CUDA cores at 1582 "Boost" MHz.

So RTX 2080 has a clock advantage, but fewer CUDA cores. Unless Turing has some huge IPC improvements, we can more or less expect the 2080 to be roughly equivalent to the 1080 Ti outside of raytracing.

-------------

In contrast, the 1080 has 2560 CUDA cores @ 1733MHz and the 980 Ti had 2816 CUDA @ 1076 MHz boost clocks.

You can see that the 980 Ti -> 1080 had a HUGE increase in clock speed. (1076 -> 1733) to offset the CUDA disadvantage. Plus, Pascal's architecture really was much better than Maxwell on top of that.

adampk17 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:01 pm

morphine wrote:
Get a used GTX 1080 Ti. At least around here, they're flooding the used cards market at ridiculously low prices.

From where, ebay? I'm hesitant to trust purchases of this type (expensive electronics) second hand. Am I wrong to shy away?

DancinJack · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:07 pm

adampk17 wrote:
From where, ebay? I'm hesitant to trust purchases of this type (expensive electronics) second hand. Am I wrong to shy away?

DancinJack wrote:
morphine wrote:
Get a used GTX 1080 Ti. At least around here, they're flooding the used cards market at ridiculously-low prices.

We don't have a great used card market here in the US to be honest. Unless you're part of a community, like TR, it can be hard to find reputable sources for such items. Prices may come down enough in the next month it's a non-issues for the OP, but worth a shot to look around.

dragontamer5788 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:15 pm

adampk17 wrote:
morphine wrote:
Get a used GTX 1080 Ti. At least around here, they're flooding the used cards market at ridiculously low prices.

From where, ebay? I'm hesitant to trust purchases of this type (expensive electronics) second hand. Am I wrong to shy away?

Ebay is probably one of the better spots. Most people prefer long-standing accounts without any blemishes. Gotta keep that 99.5%+ positive reviews if you hope to sell anything in the future.

Amazon has a decent used selection: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing ... s=GTX+1080

Just type in "used" in the Amazon search. I didn't find much on the 1080 Ti though.

NTMBK · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:19 pm

It sounds like Turing has the same IPC improvements as Volta- simultaneous execution of Int and FP instructions, and interleaved execution of instructions from different branches. Hopefully that will improve shader performance quite nicely. Not to mention it has boosted memory bandwidth from GDDR6.

I say wait for reviews. Your 970 can last another month.

chuckula · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:23 pm

While Turing sure isn't cheap and will of course take some type of performance hit from ray tracing, don't expect it to be slow in regular games.

Also, the "DLSS" feature that was sort of a secondary topic compared to ray tracing at the launch event actually appears to be a decent quality substitute for conventional anti-aliasing that actually boosts performance instead of harming performance: https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidi ... -dlss.html

adampk17 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:29 pm

NTMBK wrote:

I say wait for reviews. Your 970 can last another month.

Yes, it can. But I get this awfully hard to resist itch when an upgrade is being decided. I'm sure no one else here has that issue.

K-L-Waster · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:40 pm

Waiting for the reviews is likely the smart thing to do at this point.

Jumping on the new shiny sight-unseen is definitely *not* the smart thing to do at any point.

I can vouch for the 1080TI -- no complaints about mine. Still, buying one literally as the next gen is launching without knowing what the next gen delivers may not be the best bet.

So as much as you don't want to hear this right now, I vote holding off until you see what the 2000 series can actually do. As someone else already posted, your 970 can last another month.

Kretschmer · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:43 pm

My 1080Ti is a beast at 3440x1440 (let alone 2560x1440), and you won't be paying for RT silicon that you'll never see used in WoW.

That said the 1080Ti is currently $650 on Newegg and the 2080 non-FE might only be $75-$100 more than that. I can't tell you if that's worth the premium until we see benchmarks (and realistically WoW benchmarks, as that engine is its own thing).

adampk17 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:49 pm

K-L-Waster wrote:
Waiting for the reviews is likely the smart thing to do at this point.

I can vouch for the 1080TI -- no complaints about mine. Still, buying one literally as the next gen is launching without knowing what the next gen delivers may not be the best bet.

Right, I get that. If anything I usually lean more towards wanting the latest generation of my toys rather than riding the more reasonable end of the price/performance curve, the last gen. But this situation feels different. Even if the 2080 series does provide a larger performance boots than the prognosticators are expecting you still have the crazy price. $1,000 MSRP for the partner 2080 Ti's is a very tough pill to swallow and I don't get the feeling that we'll see an easing in the price any time soon. In fact, the $1,000 2080 Ti may very well be impossible to find until some time well in to 2019.

DancinJack · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:05 pm

::ALERT::ALERT::
https://techreport.com/news/34022/nvidi ... e-rtx-2080
::ALERT::ALERT::

Obviously, wait for reviews.

freebird · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:09 pm

Kretschmer wrote:
My 1080Ti is a beast at 3440x1440 (let alone 2560x1440), and you won't be paying for RT silicon that you'll never see used in WoW.

That said the 1080Ti is currently $650 on Newegg and the 2080 non-FE might only be $75-$100 more than that. I can't tell you if that's worth the premium until we see benchmarks (and realistically WoW benchmarks, as that engine is its own thing).

A Zotac AMP 1080Ti is running $526.50 on Amazon.com
Boost Clock 1683 MHz
https://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-35 ... GTX+1080TI

K-L-Waster · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:11 pm

adampk17 wrote:
But this situation feels different. Even if the 2080 series does provide a larger performance boots than the prognosticators are expecting you still have the crazy price. $1,000 MSRP for the partner 2080 Ti's is a very tough pill to swallow and I don't get the feeling that we'll see an easing in the price any time soon. In fact, the $1,000 2080 Ti may very well be impossible to find until some time well in to 2019.

Fair points.

Nothing stops you from holding off until the reviews hit then seeing if e-tailers put 10xx cards up on fire-sale prices (or possibly even Vega cards now that the mining insanity seems to be cooling off....)

techguy · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:12 pm

Not sure why anyone would give buying advice on a product whose performance is not yet known, but anyway here are some numbers from NV:

https://techreport.com/news/34022/nvidi ... e-rtx-2080

If you believe those, 2080 looks like it easily outperforms 1080 Ti. Those comments about the new generation possibly being slower than the last generation were just pure FUD.

DancinJack · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:19 pm

techguy wrote:
Not sure why anyone would give buying advice on a product whose performance is not yet known, but anyway here are some numbers from NV:

https://techreport.com/news/34022/nvidi ... e-rtx-2080

If you believe those, 2080 looks like it easily outperforms 1080 Ti. Those comments about the new generation possibly being slower than the last generation were just pure FUD.

lol the first sentence of this post, then the last make it really good.

"how could you give advice when you don't know the perf?"
....
"believe these numbers from Nvidia without confirmation or known settings, trust me!"

WAIT FOR REVIEWS.

freebird · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:23 pm

techguy wrote:
Not sure why anyone would give buying advice on a product whose performance is not yet known, but anyway here are some numbers from NV:

https://techreport.com/news/34022/nvidi ... e-rtx-2080

If you believe those, 2080 looks like it easily outperforms 1080 Ti. Those comments about the new generation possibly being slower than the last generation were just pure FUD.

or you could believe this article...

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/2 ... 080-family

I personally don't believe the 2080 will match the 1080Ti in most games (unless heavily leveraging RTX, which just looks to be some eye-candy to me right now).
I'd wait for reviews before plunking down that much money, but to each their own...

liquid_mage · Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:27 pm

I'm in a similar boat as the OP, my system specs are in my signature. My current games are Diablo 3 and Street Fighter 5, plus an indie game here and there so nothing cutting edge. I have an Acer G-Sync 2560x1440 display. My Geforce 970 has done a great job but I've been getting impatient to upgrade but wanted to wait for the 20X0 cards. My budget for video cards is more like $400-500us, that puts me firmly in the 2070 or maybe the 2060 range. I'm disappointed as now I think I should have bought a 1080 6-9 months ago for $450...

techguy · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:12 pm

DancinJack wrote:
techguy wrote:
Not sure why anyone would give buying advice on a product whose performance is not yet known, but anyway here are some numbers from NV:

https://techreport.com/news/34022/nvidi ... e-rtx-2080

If you believe those, 2080 looks like it easily outperforms 1080 Ti. Those comments about the new generation possibly being slower than the last generation were just pure FUD.

lol the first sentence of this post, then the last make it really good.

"how could you give advice when you don't know the perf?"
....
"believe these numbers from Nvidia without confirmation or known settings, trust me!"

WAIT FOR REVIEWS.

Typical reactionary fanboy nonsense. I said nothing like what you imply, yet that is the inference you make. At least I'm offering datapoints, what do you have to offer to this discussion?

techguy · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:13 pm

freebird wrote:
techguy wrote:
Not sure why anyone would give buying advice on a product whose performance is not yet known, but anyway here are some numbers from NV:

https://techreport.com/news/34022/nvidi ... e-rtx-2080

If you believe those, 2080 looks like it easily outperforms 1080 Ti. Those comments about the new generation possibly being slower than the last generation were just pure FUD.

or you could believe this article...

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/2 ... 080-family

I personally don't believe the 2080 will match the 1080Ti in most games (unless heavily leveraging RTX, which just looks to be some eye-candy to me right now).
I'd wait for reviews before plunking down that much money, but to each their own...

Extremetech hasn't been relevant for over a decade. Sorry, but it's true.

Redocbew · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:21 pm

techguy wrote:
At least I'm offering datapoints

Data should not require belief in order to be useful. In this case it does since there's currently no way to verify these results. You want to believe in those numbers, and you won't listen to anyone who tells you anything but what you want to hear. I'm sure you're not alone and there are plenty of other people who are doing the same right now. You can join in the fun, or you can wait for reviews. Your call, bro.

Kretschmer · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:27 pm

freebird wrote:
Kretschmer wrote:
My 1080Ti is a beast at 3440x1440 (let alone 2560x1440), and you won't be paying for RT silicon that you'll never see used in WoW.

That said the 1080Ti is currently $650 on Newegg and the 2080 non-FE might only be $75-$100 more than that. I can't tell you if that's worth the premium until we see benchmarks (and realistically WoW benchmarks, as that engine is its own thing).

A Zotac AMP 1080Ti is running $526.50 on Amazon.com
Boost Clock 1683 MHz
https://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-35 ... GTX+1080TI

Oh wow that's crazy!

DPete27 · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:39 pm

dragontamer5788 wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
That said, keep in mind that the RTX2080 will probably outperform the GTX1080Ti (if Nvidia's history is anything to go by) once we see real benchmarks. So keep that pecking order in mind.

I'm not sure how much we can rely on history.So RTX 2080 has a clock advantage, but fewer CUDA cores. Unless Turing has some huge IPC improvements, we can more or less expect the 2080 to be roughly equivalent to the 1080 Ti outside of raytracing..

Sorry, meant to say 2080 = 1080Ti. Not 2080>1080Ti. Nevertheless, it looks like the 2080 could edge out the 1080Ti by about 12% based on Nvidia's benchmarks released after my first post.

techguy · Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:48 pm

Redocbew wrote:
techguy wrote:
At least I'm offering datapoints

Data should not require belief in order to be useful. In this case it does since there's currently no way to verify these results. You want to believe in those numbers, and you won't listen to anyone who tells you anything but what you want to hear. I'm sure you're not alone and there are plenty of other people who are doing the same right now. You can join in the fun, or you can wait for reviews. Your call, bro.

Why assert motive? I'm not attempting to frame a narrative here, other than to say "there are datapoints out there", which is contrary to several comments I have seen. I haven't pre-ordered an RTX card, I'm in the same boat waiting for reviews just like most other people around here.

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