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ptsant
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:31 am

I knew it wasn't going to be cheap because the compute hardware in there is absolutely monstrous (double precision rate, new deep-learning instructions etc). Unfortunately, I don't need it at home.

A pity they are not addressing the huge space between the 590 ($250) and this ($700). Where is a competitive $350-400 card?
Image
 
Topinio
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:44 am

ptsant wrote:
A pity they are not addressing the huge space between the 590 ($250) and this ($700). Where is a competitive $350-400 card?

Um, Vega 56 and Vega 64?

No idea what pricing's like where you are, of course, but I'm looking at the below; sure, it's a big jump up from the Vega 64 but (if my guestimates for pricing on unreleased cards isn't too bad) it's arguably less outrageous than the competition if it does actually perform competitively to the RTX 2080.

£70 GT 1030 2 GB
£110 Radeon RX 550 4 GB
£115 Radeon RX 560 4 GB

£120 GTX 1050 2 GB
£150 Radeon RX 570 4 GB
£150 GTX 1050 Ti 4 GB
£160 Radeon RX 570 8 GB
£180 GTX 1060 3 GB
£190 Radeon RX 580 4 GB
£220 Radeon RX 580 8 GB

£220 GTX 1060 6 GB
£240 Radeon RX 590 8 GB
£300 GTX 1070 8 GB
~£320 RTX 2060 6 GB

£350 Radeon RX Vega 56 8 GB
£360 GTX 1070 Ti 8 GB
£390 Radeon RX Vega 64 8 GB
£450 RTX 2070 8 GB
£515 GTX 1080 8 GB

~£625 Radeon VII 16 GB
£690 RTX 2080 8 GB
£900 GTX 1080 Ti 11 GB
£1000 RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB
£2400 Titan RTX 24 GB
Last edited by Topinio on Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Topinio
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:27 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Here's what prices were when I looked at them last week

I'd forgotten!

So, anyway, RX Vega 56 8 GB is at $370 and RX Vega 64 8 GB is at $400 ; AMD has options at $250, $370, $400, and $700 -- which is a gap, but nothing like a gap from $250 to $700 ...
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SpotTheCat
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:24 am

I wonder about the decision to use so much of so expensive memory.
 
ptsant
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:10 am

Topinio wrote:
ptsant wrote:
A pity they are not addressing the huge space between the 590 ($250) and this ($700). Where is a competitive $350-400 card?

Um, Vega 56 and Vega 64?

No idea what pricing's like where you are, of course, but I'm looking at the below; sure, it's a big jump up from the Vega 64 but (if my guestimates for pricing on unreleased cards isn't too bad) it's arguably less outrageous than the competition if it does actually perform competitively to the RTX 2080.



You're right about the prices. When I last looked before the holidays Vega 56 was $500 here (vs $260 for the 590). It's now closer to $450 which kinda closes the gap. At the same time, why would anyone buy a Vega 56 instead of the 2060, which is also priced here at $390-450? The 2060 is so much better than Vega56 that in my opinion Vega is not viable. We still haven't seen the benchmarks on that, but that's how it looks right now.
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Topinio
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:54 am

ptsant wrote:
You're right about the prices. When I last looked before the holidays Vega 56 was $500 here (vs $260 for the 590). It's now closer to $450 which kinda closes the gap. At the same time, why would anyone buy a Vega 56 instead of the 2060, which is also priced here at $390-450? The 2060 is so much better than Vega56 that in my opinion Vega is not viable. We still haven't seen the benchmarks on that, but that's how it looks right now.

Those prices are from the market before RTX 2060 launched and I expect the AMD ones will drop further once it's out, but you're right that Vega 64 needs to be close to RTX 2060 GDDR6 6 GB at retail, and the RX Vega 56 below it.

I'd caution, though: if NVIDIA's plan really is to have RTX 2060 available with GDDR5 or GDDR6 and at 2 GB or 4 GB or 6 GB, there is likely to still be a place for a $300 RX Vega 56 8 GB (if only to clear out inventory).
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Topinio
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:18 am

SpotTheCat wrote:
I wonder about the decision to use so much of so expensive memory.

On the Radeon VII specifically having 4 stacks rather than the 2 on the RX Vega 64 and 56? Isn't is just that these are reused MI50's and those were designed and built with 4 stacks on the interposer.

The per-stack capacity isn't anything they can change, isn't a 4 GB stack the smallest they can get?

On using HBM/HBM2 itself? Because AMD hit a power wall and can't but use HBM, they'd need another ~50 W to use GDDR and would also lose bandwidth which they can't afford.
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:28 am

strangerguy wrote:
At this rate GPU perf/$ is stagnating its gonna take forever to replace my 1070. Thankfully I bought one with a 5 year warranty.


It is up in the air if RTX mode will take off or not. That's really the only thing on the foreseeable future that is going cause people to upgrade in order to run future content.
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chuckula
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:55 pm

shaq_mobile wrote:
Nice commando shoutout. D:


I'm glad somebody got the reference.
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JustAnEngineer
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:31 pm

Rae: “What happened to Chuckula?”
Arnold: “I let him go.”
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dragontamer5788
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:51 pm

Seems like the Radeon VII won't support FP64 / Double precision operations, unfortunately.
 
chuckula
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:10 pm

dragontamer5788 wrote:
Seems like the Radeon VII won't support FP64 / Double precision operations, unfortunately.


Still in quasi-rumor mode but right now the most solid information is that FP64 is at 1/16th rate, or a little under 900GFlops, so ahead of some other gaming cards but definitely nothing that will interest a professional.

Anand's editor had the rather bizarre claim that a feature being left out was PCIe 4.0 support. It's not that PCIe 4.0 will make any difference in games (it won't), it's that AMD made a big deal about PCIe 4.0 in Zen 2 but apparently doesn't want Radeon VII to be ready to go when Zen 2 launches...
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DancinJack
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:11 pm

dragontamer5788 wrote:
Seems like the Radeon VII won't support FP64 / Double precision operations, unfortunately.

Yeah, but not a huge deal for the intended audience. Obviously would have been nice for the super small niche of gamer/HPC nerd, but if you really need the FP64 just buy the Instinct (obviously at an insanely high price but thems the breaks).

btw here's the source: https://techgage.com/news/radeon-vii-ca ... rformance/
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:13 pm

Since you never actually see Sully die when Matrix drops him in Commando, my friends and I always mused that there should be a sequel in which Sully survived and becomes the final villain, whom after suitable unmasking, Matrix faithfully executes last.

Heroes don't lie, after all, and thus Matrix did truthfully "let him go" as he says later in the first film.

The appropriate pithy one-liner at the end of the sequel was left as an exercise.
 
chuckula
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:27 pm

DancinJack wrote:
dragontamer5788 wrote:
Seems like the Radeon VII won't support FP64 / Double precision operations, unfortunately.

Yeah, but not a huge deal for the intended audience. Obviously would have been nice for the super small niche of gamer/HPC nerd, but if you really need the FP64 just buy the Instinct (obviously at an insanely high price but thems the breaks).

btw here's the source: https://techgage.com/news/radeon-vii-ca ... rformance/


Speaking of which, are the MI-50 or 60 publicly listed anywhere? I can only find a few MI-25 listings in the $5K range or so.
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Topinio
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:09 pm

chuckula wrote:
Speaking of which, are the MI-50 or 60 publicly listed anywhere? I can only find a few MI-25 listings in the $5K range or so.

Nah, it's talk to your rep still.
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DancinJack
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:20 pm

Topinio wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Speaking of which, are the MI-50 or 60 publicly listed anywhere? I can only find a few MI-25 listings in the $5K range or so.

Nah, it's talk to your rep still.

Yeah I couldn't find any for sale, even on AMD's own site for them.
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MOSFET
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:21 pm

This is worse than a whm1974 thread. WAY worse. At least he had somewhat genuine questions and comments. I will visit TR less and less because of forum threads like this.
Be careful on inserting this (or any G34 chip) into the socket. Once you pull that restraining lever, it is either a good install or a piece of silicon jewelry.
 
DancinJack
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:23 pm

MOSFET wrote:
This is worse than a whm1974 thread. WAY worse. At least he had somewhat genuine questions and comments. I will visit TR less and less because of forum threads like this.

Maybe you didn't read the thread?

I fully admit the OP was just Chuck doing his usual trolling, but there has been plenty of actual, informative discussion since. Not sure why you're up on some high horse.
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chuckula
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:56 pm

DancinJack wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
This is worse than a whm1974 thread. WAY worse. At least he had somewhat genuine questions and comments. I will visit TR less and less because of forum threads like this.

Maybe you didn't read the thread?

I fully admit the OP was just Chuck doing his usual trolling, but there has been plenty of actual, informative discussion since. Not sure why you're up on some high horse.


Why is everyone upset? I never once accused AMD of putting Ray Tracing units in this thing. I'm being far far too nice to AMD given my standard track record here!
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DragonDaddyBear
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:42 am

MOSFET wrote:
This is worse than a whm1974 thread. WAY worse. At least he had somewhat genuine questions and comments. I will visit TR less and less because of forum threads like this.


I see view these headlines as click bait but with substance underneath. Unlike your typical troll Chuck actually has informed thought, even if it's annoying. That, in turn, spurs an meaningful conversation where I learn stuff. He'll even, every once in a while, post a reply in the articles that's very thorough. Once you realize he's just screwing the gerbils as part of his own grand experiment it's less annoying. Still annoying, just less.
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:52 am

MOSFET wrote:
I will visit TR less and less because of forum threads like this.
DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Chuckula's just screwing the gerbils as part of his own grand experiment it's... still annoying, just less.
It's still a violation of Rule 10. Mosfet has expressed the reason that Rule 10 exists.
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kvndoom
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:55 am

chuckula wrote:
shaq_mobile wrote:
Nice commando shoutout. D:


I'm glad somebody got the reference.

I could probably cite that movie line-by-line while watching it. Couldn't tell you how many times I've watched it.

Nvidia: "You scared glo-fo?? Well you should be, because this green RTX is going to kick your big red @$$!"

AMD: "I eat green RTX's for breakfast! And right now I'm VERY HUNGRY."
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DragonDaddyBear
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Re: AMD: Remember When we said we'd kill Nvidia last? WE LIED!

Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:27 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
I will visit TR less and less because of forum threads like this.
DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Chuckula's just screwing the gerbils as part of his own grand experiment it's... still annoying, just less.
It's still a violation of Rule 10. Mosfet has expressed the reason that Rule 10 exists.


I certainly see your point. However, according to the rule a moderator must find the behavior "detrimental to the forums" before taking action. While trolling and obnoxious it's debatable if it's detrimental. I'd say reach out to the moderator if you feel the member is out of line.

10.) No trolling, spamming, or other deliberate obnoxious behavior that is judged to be detrimental to the forums. This is, of course, a judgment call by the moderators and administrators.

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