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steelcity_ballin
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Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:49 pm

Hey yinz guys - I'm a seasoned veteran of most hardware troubleshooting by now but I come to you humbly seeking guidance. Here's the deal:

System was built very cheaply for a friend with, at the time, the amd 5600k so he could use the onboard gpu until someone gave him an Nvidia 560TI. It did it's job for some time until recently when i started blackscreening on him.

I had to go into the bios with the PCI-e slot empty and the card unpowered in order to get it to boot into windows. Once there, it seems stable and fine. So I put the card back in, plug the display adapter back in, and black screen (with POST beep). So I unplug it again, head back into the bios, and disable the integrated graphics solution. I then reseat the card, power it up, and it POSTs and the monitor comes on.

That's all well and good except now I am getting green artifacts when the windows screen is loading (windows 8, doubt it matters here), and then it wants to do a system restore. After cancelling out of the restore, occasionally I can get it to go to the login screen and proceed, but there is non-moving artifacts still present on the desktop that are not there with the integrated solution.

Now, the PSU is a cheap Rosewill, but there is next to nothing in this system drawing power.

Thoughts:
1. GPU has **** the bed (probs, everything else when the card is unpowered seems stable and displays fine)
2. PCI-e slot has **** the bed
3. PSU is no longer supplying adequate power (450w rosewill)
4. the (2) 6 pin molex to the 560ti are damaged or otherwise not supplying appropriate power.


Diagnostic options:
If I can get the damned thing stable in windows with the discreet gpu in, I could potentially run some software (cpu-z maybe?) to verify the voltage to the gpu. I don't want to put the potentially damaged gpu into my system, nor do I want to put my 1080 into a potentially volatile pci-e slot. Anything else I might be missing to logically want to include in a diagnostic of this POS ? :lol: Thanks!
 
Krogoth
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:54 pm

It sounds like the PSU and/or motherboard aren't delivering enough juice on the 12V to keep the card happy when taxed. If it is an older 450W unit then it is more likely that PSU is at fault. The only way to rule out a defective card is throwing it into another system with motherboard and PSU that are known to be in good working order.
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Walkintarget
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:55 pm

It's relatively easy to test the PSU, and I find that the PSU is always a good place to start, especially when you are talking about a power hungry card or a rig loaded with a lot of accessories or peripherals.
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:22 pm

I had a rosewill PS crap out after a couple of years.
I'd replace it with a seasonic unit (a nothing fancy model) and go from there.
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Concupiscence
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:25 pm

Fermi cards are infamous for drawing a lot of power. Even if power usage elsewhere in the system is low, it may be drawing momentary peak voltage that exceeds what the Rosewill can manage. Krogoth's right: get the box a new, reputable PSU - for reliability's sake it needs one anyway - and see if the problem clears up. If it does, that's an easy solution. If it doesn't, then at least you've ruled that out and fixed a problem the system had to begin with.
Last edited by Concupiscence on Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Topinio
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:45 pm

That's a hella old system to have survived that long given the crappy marginal PSU and how power-hungy its 6 year old Piledriver CPU and 8 year old Fermi GPU are, the 100 W and 170 W* respective label TDP's are high and probably understatements IRL.

I would suspect the PSU has gone; whether it's so, and whether the motherboard or GPU are damaged, you can't tell without dropping in spare parts. If you don't have a parts box of potentially sacrificial components or know anyone who has, I'd start asking your friend what the money and time budget for fixing this is.

(If you were nearby, I could offer some loaners, but you're not...)

[*] (assuming it's not the GeForce GTX 560 Ti 448 Core @ a supposed 210 W)
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steelcity_ballin
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:56 pm

Krogoth wrote:
It sounds like the PSU and/or motherboard aren't delivering enough juice on the 12V to keep the card happy when taxed. If it is an older 450W unit then it is more likely that PSU is at fault. The only way to rule out a defective card is throwing it into another system with motherboard and PSU that are known to be in good working order.



What is weird to me is that it'll POST with either onboard (VGA) or the PCIe. But beyond that it's a mixed bag. What really confuses me is that if I have the VGA connected, and the PCI card slotted but not powered (no connectors in it) it'll Post but nothing else. Pop the card out of the PCI slot, and it boots into Win8 without further issue. Im sure the PCIe slot gives it some power, but certainly not enough to even turn the fans on it would seem. I can't test the 5600K's cpu/gpu nonsense because I lack the adapter for the old DVI (I only have the kind with the full + and the connection is just a -)

I also took the GPU apart to verify no scorch marks or bulging caps, looks pretty clean tbh.
 
MOSFET
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:19 am

to recap, is this correct?

* System boots to Windows with no card, iGPU only.
* System POSTS but hangs with dGPU slotted but not powered auxiliarily (PSU-direct)?
* System does not POST with dGPU powered properly by slot and PSU-direct? or is it booting but artifacting in this config?

I would replace the Rosewill PSU tomorrow, no hesitation, even with a cheap EVGA. It's certainly possible the video card's power delivery circuitry has aged or failed. Sounds like its time for a Monoprice cable or adapter shopping spree. $10 should do it. Might be worth it.
Be careful on inserting this (or any G34 chip) into the socket. Once you pull that restraining lever, it is either a good install or a piece of silicon jewelry.
 
steelcity_ballin
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:54 am

MOSFET wrote:
to recap, is this correct?

* System boots to Windows with no card, iGPU only.
* System POSTS but hangs with dGPU slotted but not powered auxiliarily (PSU-direct)?
* System does not POST with dGPU powered properly by slot and PSU-direct? or is it booting but artifacting in this config?

I would replace the Rosewill PSU tomorrow, no hesitation, even with a cheap EVGA. It's certainly possible the video card's power delivery circuitry has aged or failed. Sounds like its time for a Monoprice cable or adapter shopping spree. $10 should do it. Might be worth it.



1. Correct, no discreet graphics, and with the IDP disabled, using the IGP (vga) = boot into windows, no issues
2. Correct, without power it'll post but then blackscreen prior to even a windows 8 logo or loading screen, and stay there. With power (2x 6pin molex) it'll reach a windows 8 logo, then a "diagnostic screen" to repair, which fails, then presents the "restart, repair, refresh, etc" menu.
3. Incorrect, it POSTs if powered properly, but displays green artifacts directly after POST and prior to windows logo - then behaves similar to the latter half of 2. Only reaching the windows login once, and I don't know why, but regardless artifacting persists on any screen that does display. I also don't understand what it's trying to repair or diagnose every time the card is powered.

Without the card plugged in, I installed the latest GPU drivers for the dGPU which did nothing once plugged back in. I also attempted to grab the latest chipset drivers, but apparently Gigabyte's chipset drivers for this are rather poor and only want to install the Catalyst Control Center and some display-related drivers, which I don't want.

I took the entire GPU apart, removed the heatsink etc, no damage to any ram chips, no scorch marks anywhere I could see, no blown caps, no bulging caps, no bad traces as far as I can see.

I'm going to take my PSU from my system and try it, that's probably the easiest test to rule out bad power. I'll assume the slot itself is OK because it must be receiving some power from the slot to allow it not to boot when the 2x molex are not connected.
 
Concupiscence
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:18 am

Obligatory bump to see if there's a status update.
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steelcity_ballin
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:46 am

Wasn't able to get my PSU out of my main rig over the weekend to test the under-powered / bad PSU theory, but I will update once I do.
 
steelcity_ballin
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Swapped a known good PSU in, and it does the same thing. So, it's not the PSU. That does it then, it's the GPU.
 
Concupiscence
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:03 pm

Well, it's not the worst news you could get. If you can find a special on a GTX 1050 Ti, that'd absolutely smoke the 560 Ti in a smidgen of the power budget.
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Topinio
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Re: Good ol' fashion troubleshooting a gpu

Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:14 am

Probably right, but it's a bit marginal to be spending that much money (here it's £150+) on a new GPU for a very old and cheap build (2012 low-midrange CPU which was only £100/£75 retail when new, and the GPU was a freebie), especially as things that have not been ruled out include:

  1. the platofrm / PCI-e slot has **** the bed
  2. the PSU is no longer supplying adequate power for the system with a GPU installed
  3. the Molex-PCIe aux 6-pins cables are faulty.
Absent a parts box and so needing to buy any replacement GPU, IMHO another option could be to snag a used GTX 650 Ti, that's still an upgrade and it's much much cheaper (they go for £25-£40 around here).
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