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gabbesty
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:07 pm

not to the people who want the best of the best, to this group they highly value releases over money
 
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:28 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
So if this is true, would they die cut features or block it through firmware?

Be interesting if you could BIOS flash it back to an MI.


It's almost certainly firmware since this is controlling fine-grained functions inside of every CU instead of just cutting the power to a macroscopic block like a cluster of CUs being disabled.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:34 pm

chuckula wrote:
anotherengineer wrote:
So if this is true, would they die cut features or block it through firmware?

Be interesting if you could BIOS flash it back to an MI.

It's almost certainly firmware since this is controlling fine-grained functions inside of every CU instead of just cutting the power to a macroscopic block like a cluster of CUs being disabled.

If they'd planned to do this all along there could be a single fuse that controls a signal which disables those blocks on all CUs. Or even a strap option brought out to a pad on the BGA.

But I agree firmware is more likely.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:34 pm

DancinJack wrote:
Waco wrote:
While I really don't have a good reason to buy one...for some reason I really want one. It'd be a huge step up in performance, a sidestep in power consumption (not that I really care), and feel good for some reason.

And maybe Freesync on your TV/Monitor? ;)



Nah, it doesn't support it (yet). That's also on my upgrade list. :)
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:20 pm

I'm not sure I fully believe this article from Fudzilla, but there is at least a claim floating around that the 4 HBM Stacks + Interposer in the Radeon VII is costing AMD a whopping $320 per card.

I would normally assume that the entire BOM of even a very profit-constrained card would be less than $400 given its sale price, so take that information as you will.
Still no real estimate on what the GPU itself costs.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:17 pm

Sure. So, nice one AMD, 3 cheers for AMD for more performance as cheap as can be. Why give a toss if their profit margin is tiny?

HBM2 non-pro cards over time
$1000 Radeon Vega FE 16 GB
$500 Radeon RX Vega 64 8 GB
$400 Radeon RX Vega 56 8 GB
$3000 TITAN V 12 GB
$700 Radeon VII 16 GB

If AMD wants to have a gaming card product that's better than its 18-month old RX Vega 64, and it has the better GPUs already and set to go into the Instinct MI50 and MI60 cards, if it decides it can put video outputs on the former and sell it to us consumers, I'm all for that.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:35 pm

$340 Radeon RX Vega56 8GiB + 3 games*
$410 -30MIR Radeon RX Vega64 8GiB + 3 games*

* Resident Evil 2, Devil May Cry 5 and Tom Clancy's the Division 2. These are $60 each, if you buy them from Steam.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:45 pm

Prices in my post were launch prices, showing that the new card is not out of whack.

It will also get those 3 $60 games included for free.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:46 pm

I think I might actually order one on launch day. Call me a fanboy if you will.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:08 pm

Waco wrote:
I think I might actually order one on launch day. Call me a fanboy if you will.


It probably is the ideal Blender Cycles GPU. I can think of a few uses of it, but they're all "workstation" related. I'm not a big cryptocoin guy, but I'd imagine it to be really good at Monero or some of those other memory bandwidth-hard problems.

What plans do you have for it?

--------

My personal plans with AMD GPUs are to investigate its ROCm development system, and maybe use it for some 3d Blender modeling (I'm really bad at modeling though). The cheaper Vega cards are sufficient for that purpose though (I don't need double-precision flops or the 16GB that Radeon VII offers).
 
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:00 pm

4K gaming, AMD "fine wine", 16 GB of HBM2, and video encoding. I'd like to move to an adaptive sync monitor going forward as well.

I know it's not cost effective for gaming compared to picking up a used GTX 1080 (or Ti) but for some reason it keeps calling me. I'd rather give money to the red team versus the green team if I'm upgrading, and the wife can take the Titan and finally rid herself of her GTX 770 SLI setup.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:08 pm

Waco wrote:
4K gaming, AMD "fine wine", 16 GB of HBM2, and video encoding. I'd like to move to an adaptive sync monitor going forward as well.

I know it's not cost effective for gaming compared to picking up a used GTX 1080 (or Ti) but for some reason it keeps calling me. I'd rather give money to the red team versus the green team if I'm upgrading, and the wife can take the Titan and finally rid herself of her GTX 770 SLI setup.


Expecting Fine Wine from the last Vega product ever produced is not going to get you much. Navi development already affected Vega negatively up front, and now you are about to see AMD's driver support rush to Navi big-time. Not to mention that future consoles get a version of Navi in their integrated graphics.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:37 pm

That was a hook I laid out just for you. Thanks for taking it. :)

Honestly, I just need a new GPU and I'd rather throw it at AMD than Nvidia these days. The compute capabilities will be interesting moving forward as well.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:41 pm

Waco wrote:
That was a hook I laid out just for you. Thanks for taking it. :)

Honestly, I just need a new GPU and I'd rather throw it at AMD than Nvidia these days. The compute capabilities will be interesting moving forward as well.


Lol. OK. If the rumors are true it should be pretty good in double-precision compared to other sub-$1000 GPUs.

The big thing that Radeon VII was to deflate all the hype that Navi is about to launch with RTX-2080 level performance at $300.
Because something tells me if it was, AMD might have you know... shown Navi at CES instead of Radeon VII.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:47 pm

I fully expect Navi to be a solid midrange card - 2060/2070 ish for less money. I doubt it'll reach up into the 2080/1080 Ti range as well.

I'd be happy to be wrong (well, maybe not if I just bought a VII) but it would be very good for AMD if so. I do fully expect AMD to sell them for every penny they can, though, so if they are competitive with the 2080, they're going to price them appropriately.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:17 pm

Apparently there's next to no stock availability, 100 for the UK, 20 for France, 20 for Spain ... 5000 total, worldwide.

AMD denies at least the latter.

Pass the salt.

https://www.techpowerup.com/251577/amds ... -denies-it
https://www.techpowerup.com/252269/uks- ... -100-cards
https://www.techpowerup.com/252283/rade ... s-of-cards
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:25 pm

It sounds about right. AMD RTG never placed Vega20 orders in massive quantities and these cards are using silicon that didn't get Instinct/FirePro cut. ~5,000-10,000 units worldwide seems to be a legit ballpark figure considering that AMD RTG never intended on releasing a dedicated customer-tier Vega20 SKU.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:34 pm

Krogoth wrote:
It sounds about right. AMD RTG never placed Vega20 orders in massive quantities and these cards are using silicon that didn't get Instinct/FirePro cut. ~5,000-10,000 units worldwide seems to be a legit ballpark figure considering that AMD RTG never intended on releasing a dedicated customer-tier Vega20 SKU.


I agree with your idea Krogoth.

But at the same time, major reviewers (Techreport, Techpowerup, Anandtech, Hardware Unboxed, etc. etc.) have gotten a demo-unit. If it really were a low-quantity product, why would AMD spend so much money giving out so many review units. Basically, AMD's recent moves contradict my understanding of the situation. Maybe AMD has put in a large order (maybe the 5000 initial units will be followed up by many dozens of thousands or hundreds-of-thousands later on??)
 
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:37 pm

dragontamer5788 wrote:
why would AMD spend so much money giving out so many review units

Halo effect, and if they think it's an effective marketing spend then they'll do it.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:44 pm

Topinio wrote:
dragontamer5788 wrote:
why would AMD spend so much money giving out so many review units

Halo effect, and if they think it's an effective marketing spend then they'll do it.


It doesn't match 2080 Ti or Titan performance though. Sooo.... seems kinda pointless from a halo perspective.
 
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:03 pm

dragontamer5788 wrote:
Topinio wrote:
dragontamer5788 wrote:
why would AMD spend so much money giving out so many review units

Halo effect, and if they think it's an effective marketing spend then they'll do it.


It doesn't match 2080 Ti or Titan performance though. Sooo.... seems kinda pointless from a halo perspective.


They can point to it though when someone says "AMD only does low-perf budget GPUs."

Probably not very convincing to gerbils like us, but it may work on the Seeking Alpha set...
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:20 pm

Topinio wrote:
Apparently there's next to no stock availability, 100 for the UK, 20 for France, 20 for Spain ... 5000 total, worldwide.

AMD denies at least the latter.

Pass the salt.

https://www.techpowerup.com/251577/amds ... -denies-it
https://www.techpowerup.com/252269/uks- ... -100-cards
https://www.techpowerup.com/252283/rade ... s-of-cards


https://twitter.com/eTeknix/status/1093206541375819777

One UK retailer has over a 100 just from one brand.


Hmmm... these rumors seem awfully bad and contradictory.
 
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:58 am

dragontamer5788 wrote:
Krogoth wrote:
It sounds about right. AMD RTG never placed Vega20 orders in massive quantities and these cards are using silicon that didn't get Instinct/FirePro cut. ~5,000-10,000 units worldwide seems to be a legit ballpark figure considering that AMD RTG never intended on releasing a dedicated customer-tier Vega20 SKU.


I agree with your idea Krogoth.

But at the same time, major reviewers (Techreport, Techpowerup, Anandtech, Hardware Unboxed, etc. etc.) have gotten a demo-unit. If it really were a low-quantity product, why would AMD spend so much money giving out so many review units. Basically, AMD's recent moves contradict my understanding of the situation. Maybe AMD has put in a large order (maybe the 5000 initial units will be followed up by many dozens of thousands or hundreds-of-thousands later on??)


It really doesn't cost that much to send out a score of review units to popular sites/tech vbloggers that normally need to return units after the reviews are done as part of the NDA. AMD RTG figures that it might give their existing and still obtainable Vega 56/64 units a boost in sales as they are currently attractive options at their price points.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:15 am

Welp, I didn't buy one. Much louder than my Vega 56, significantly below RTX 2080 performance, priced significantly above the RTX 2070 ... £480-500 would have worked, £650 didn't.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:41 am

It's a clear stopgap release so I'm not sure what people were expecting, but if it was too expensive to sell they wouldn't be selling it.

Let the waiting continue.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:08 am

LostCat wrote:
It's a clear stopgap release so I'm not sure what people were expecting, but if it was too expensive to sell they wouldn't be selling it.

Let the waiting continue.


Yeah, basically another FX-9590
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:38 am

Even at 699 it's still too expensive. The reason you go with AMD is to save money. Hell, I'm interested in the VII but dang at 699 I can get a 1070Ti.
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:40 am

I think at $500 or $600 it would make more sense.
Image
If I look at that graph, 475 is where it would make sense to scale with the 2070.
 
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:41 am

I nabbed one. Looking forward to a much needed upgrade from my Titan Xm for 4K gaming.

It's definitely not the best value at the moment for gaming. It will be fun to play with the as-of-today doubled compute capabilities. :)
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Re: Get your salt shaker handy -- Radeon 7 too expensive to sell?

Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:00 pm

Waco wrote:
I nabbed one. Looking forward to a much needed upgrade from my Titan Xm for 4K gaming.

It's definitely not the best value at the moment for gaming. It will be fun to play with the as-of-today doubled compute capabilities. :)


What programs out there even use double-precision?

I'm thinking about programming my own stuff, but I rarely use doubles in my own code. Actually, I hate floating points in general because they're so wonky. But I'd think that 32-bit Floats of 2^128 to 2^-127 with ~7-decimal digits precision is enough for most cases.

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