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Usacomp2k3
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:40 pm

As a co-processor. Or maybe like the physX. RayX.
 
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:57 pm

Krogoth wrote:
The rendering pathways are comically parallel so scalability isn't that much of a problem unlike rasterization.


Dafaq?

It will begin to make more sense to make specialized chiplets if the industry wants to continue the pathtracing/ray-tracing route.


If that were to happen it wouldn't be seen by the OS as multiple GPUs, so it's not an application of crossfire or SLI. Comparing this to monolithic vs MCM designs is apples to oranges.

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
As a co-processor. Or maybe like the physX. RayX.


Maybe, but the most important part of physX is the software, by far. This is a bit different since performance is trash without the hardware, and since it's already being used to promote GPUs it's probably going to stay that way.
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:46 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
As a co-processor. Or maybe like the physX. RayX.


Maybe, but the most important part of physX is the software, by far. This is a bit different since performance is trash without the hardware, and since it's already being used to promote GPUs it's probably going to stay that way.

I don’t know what I’m talking about, but is the hardware for Raytracing the same as what is needed for conventional graphics?
 
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:59 pm

Not really. You can think of rasterization as being done by general purpose hardware where ray tracing is done by fixed function hardware designed for a single purpose. Specifically it's the BVH tree traversal used to determine the intersections of each ray. Calculating the path of each ray is relatively quick, but once they start bouncing off things it can get kind of intense. That's the part that the RT units(or whatever nvidia called them) offloads from the general execution core of the GPU.

You could do that in software using either the general compute units of the GPU, or even the CPU, but it would take a while. I don't remember exactly what tests were run, but I don't think there was the same kind of performance delta when physx was new.
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:14 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
As a co-processor. Or maybe like the physX. RayX.


Maybe, but the most important part of physX is the software, by far. This is a bit different since performance is trash without the hardware, and since it's already being used to promote GPUs it's probably going to stay that way.

I don’t know what I’m talking about, but is the hardware for Raytracing the same as what is needed for conventional graphics?


The BSDF of Raytracing is probably very similar to the Pixel-shader hardware in Rasterization. The main issue, as Redocbew points out, is the BVH tree traversal, which the classical GPU design is suboptimal at (but still better than CPUs at). NVidia added special units for extra-fast BVH traversal

BVH is the "quick and dirty" estimate for where rays may be intersecting with the geometry of the scene. If a pixel starts at location (0,0,0), and is launched with (0,0,1) bearings, which triangle will it hit (or does even any triangle exist in that direction?) If there are multiple triangles in that direction, which one is closest? The pixel-shading question is "what angle is the triangle pointing at" (the normal vector), which leads to the question "where should the ray "bounce" towards ?? And once the ray bounces, its a new BVH traversal to find the new triangle that the ray points at.

BSDF of Raytracing would probably replace Pixel shaders... but Vertex and Geometry shaders would take place "before" the raytracer would run (even if you completely got rid of rasterization: there are too many effects that video game programmers use in the Vertex and Geometry shader parts of the pipeline). So that stuff probably would remain the same.

Krogoth wrote:
Actually, CF/SLI might make a big comeback if the gaming industry takes a serious turn towards pathtracing/ray-tracing. The rendering pathways are comically parallel so scalability isn't that much of a problem unlike rasterization. The economic realities of monothic chips are catching up. It will begin to make more sense to make specialized chiplets if the industry wants to continue the pathtracing/ray-tracing route.

AMD RTG didn't throw infinity fabric into the Navi architecture for a quick laugh. I wouldn't be surprise if they end-up making a dedicated ray-tracing chiplet and GPU-hybird solution as their full answer to Turing dynasty.


Infinity Fabric is only ~50GBps per link, right? GDDR6 is going to be like 400+ GBps. No matter how you look at it, chip-to-chip communication will be grossly slower than communicating with graphics-RAM. The GPU programmers will have to handle it.
 
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:52 pm

https://www.techpowerup.com/256422/amd- ... m-of-games
btarunr wrote:
It turns out that AMD's claim of the Radeon RX 5700 XT being faster than the GeForce RTX 2070 wasn't just specific to the odd super-optimized game title, but a whole selection of games, many of which come with GameWorks varnish.
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:27 pm

....I should probably stick with my 1070 a while o.o But damn, so tempted...
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:33 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
https://www.techpowerup.com/256422/amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-beats-geforce-rtx-2070-in-a-spectrum-of-games
btarunr wrote:
It turns out that AMD's claim of the Radeon RX 5700 XT being faster than the GeForce RTX 2070 wasn't just specific to the odd super-optimized game title, but a whole selection of games, many of which come with GameWorks varnish.


It sounds awesome. I can't rationalize upgrading from a Vega 56 to this, but if I suddenly found myself in the market (and it were available on store shelves just yet), I wouldn't hesitate.
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:11 pm

Do we suspect a Navi based card which will replace the Radeon VII as the crown jewel of the line up or will the Radeon VII with its shrink down to 7nm be their top card until the series after the 5700XT? Thoughts?
 
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:24 pm

StuG wrote:
Do we suspect a Navi based card which will replace the Radeon VII as the crown jewel of the line up or will the Radeon VII with its shrink down to 7nm be their top card until the series after the 5700XT? Thoughts?

I suspect it'll be similar to the original Ryzen launch...other products will trickle in in the next few months. R7 might hold its spot until they clear inventory, but I'd think there should definitely be some higher and lower end Navi cards on the way.
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:26 pm

StuG wrote:
Do we suspect a Navi based card which will replace the Radeon VII as the crown jewel of the line up or will the Radeon VII with its shrink down to 7nm be their top card until the series after the 5700XT? Thoughts?


Very unlikely. Navi was designed for the semi-custom and iGPU market first and foremost. The desktop GPUs are just meant to be Polaris replacements to help recoup some R&D cost. AMD RTG will go with post-Navi design for their next attempt at high-end GPU solution (most likely GPGPU focused though like Vega).

AMD RTG simply has little or no incentive to go with a high-end solution when their past several attempts where flops or mixed bags. It is unlikely Nvidia will pull another Fermi/FX debacle for an opening to AMD RTG to advantage of.
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:34 pm

I wouldn't expect a RVII replacement for a while - it competes well enough with the 2080 in gaming and slaughters it in anything compute. It was a "free" development since it's basically a neutered Instinct card. "Big" Navi, if it is a thing, is probably not happening this year.
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:09 am

Waco wrote:
I wouldn't expect a RVII replacement for a while - it competes well enough with the 2080 in gaming and slaughters it in anything compute. It was a "free" development since it's basically a neutered Instinct card. "Big" Navi, if it is a thing, is probably not happening this year.


Radeon VII destroys anything in its price range in general compute stuff. You have spend several times more to get significant better performance. It is a hell of a bargain for GPGPU enthusiast. ;)

Radeon VII is also very good at video content creation at extreme resolutions due to its 16GiB of VRAM. You have to spend much more to get that much VRAM elsewhere.
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Re: AMD Navi / RDNA Topic

Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:40 pm

With all the BS cryptocurrencies rising in value again, let’s just hope these cards are available at a reasonable price. I really need to upgrade my 4-year-old GTX 970.

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