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Aranarth
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So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:56 am

After the Ryzen 5000 series this is kinda kewl seeing them being able to match nvidia with 10% or better and that's even with the new high end boards.

This is quite the turn around eh?

I can't wait for the official benchmarks from TR! (oh... wait...)
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K-L-Waster
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:32 am

We'll have to wait and see 3rd party benchmarks before determining whether AMD has actually leap frogged NVidia (their numbers say they have, but we must remember these are their numbers, so are almost certainly the best-case results rather than typical results). Still, even if they're just really close to NVidia, this is definitely a compelling product line. Good pricing, no worries about does-it-have-enough-VRAM, and actually fighting at the high end.

Anyone who wasn't able to pick up a 3000 series card may have dodged a bullet.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:43 am

K-L-Waster wrote:
Anyone who wasn't able to pick up a 3000 series card may have dodged a bullet.

That assumes Navi will ship in greater quantities.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:23 am

Captain Ned wrote:
That assumes Navi will ship in greater quantities.


Sad but true, that....
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:30 am

K-L-Waster wrote:
We'll have to wait and see 3rd party benchmarks before determining whether AMD has actually leap frogged NVidia (their numbers say they have, but we must remember these are their numbers, so are almost certainly the best-case results rather than typical results). Still, even if they're just really close to NVidia, this is definitely a compelling product line. Good pricing, no worries about does-it-have-enough-VRAM, and actually fighting at the high end.

AMD has been pretty consistent with not overstating what their CPUs/GPUs can do. Underpromise and overdeliver is their preferred method of hype.
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Aranarth
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:47 pm

K-L-Waster wrote:
We'll have to wait and see 3rd party benchmarks before determining whether AMD has actually leap frogged NVidia (their numbers say they have, but we must remember these are their numbers, so are almost certainly the best-case results rather than typical results). Still, even if they're just really close to NVidia, this is definitely a compelling product line. Good pricing, no worries about does-it-have-enough-VRAM, and actually fighting at the high end.

Anyone who wasn't able to pick up a 3000 series card may have dodged a bullet.


Agreed but they have been doing better with benching honesty lately.

I would not say this is a leap frog by any means, it is more of nvidia jumped and they matched it.

Now RDNA-3 that might be a leap frog.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:37 pm

Waco wrote:
AMD has been pretty consistent with not overstating what their CPUs/GPUs can do. Underpromise and overdeliver is their preferred method of hype.


Yeah, I don't think there's anything dodgy in what they're reporting. But at the same time, they're probably showing the results that cast the best light on their product (i.e. if they tested 50 games, show the 10 where they perform best).

Realistically, if they can perform at >=95% of NVidia's cards it will still be a great step from where they were at the tail end of GCN. They haven't been in that position at the high end since the 290X. Anything above that is gravy.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:16 pm

RT was not talked about much, so it remains to be seen how far behind they are compared with the 30-series.
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Aranarth
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:35 pm

reviews are out!

Most people blown away by 6800xt performance and depending on the game trades blows with 3080 or 3090.

When was the last time you saw a $700 card beating a $1500 card?!
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:53 pm

Stock is still getting scalped, though, so it's moot until there's enough to make that not lucrative.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:00 am

Also interesting, in most reviews it beats the 30X0 cards at 1080 and 1440 but NVidia matches or exceeds it at 4K. The thinking is that the combination of GDDR6x and the massive number of ROPs helps NVidia at 4K, but at lower resolutions it can't fully leverage those advantages.

I don't recall another launch where the advantage for one team or the other swung so much based on resolution.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:11 am

That L3 cache is paying dividends at low resolutions. Higher resolutions are limited by traditional GPU grunt.
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Aranarth
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:23 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
That L3 cache is paying dividends at low resolutions. Higher resolutions are limited by traditional GPU grunt.


I wonder if the cards were tuned for 1440p and the cache is not quite big enough for 4k.
I bet the next generation of cards will have more cache to handle 4k well and be tuned for that instead.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:59 am

I'm not convinced it's a matter of cache "tuning" -- probably more just sheer scale. GDDR6x for the entire frame buffer helps with that, as do number of processors.

It does put gamers in an odd situation though. NVidia is faster at 4K -- at least as long as the assets fit in VRAM. Since they're limited the 3080 to 10GB, they may get hit with nasty performance dips if a game needs more than that (such as Godfall, which apparently needs 12GB for Ultra settings at 4K). AMD has slower VRAM so overall performance isn't as good, but they do have 16GB so they have more headroom.

Not really a slam dunk for either team, IMO -- at least at 4K.

If you're playing at 1440 or lower, AMD looks like a more sensible choice -- usually faster + cheaper + more VRAM headroom so less likely to get bit by future game asset bloat.

NVidia also still has an advantage in Ray Tracing, but that's still too niche for me to want to make buying decisions based on it. Good RT performance is a nice bonus at this point, not a must-have (yet).
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:16 am

To be honest, it's exactly what I expected and avoided. Slightly faster rasterization while having only first generation ray tracing performance similar to Turing level. In short, exactly what I didn't want. Ray tracing is really the ONLY reason I felt compelled to upgrade from a very comfortably fast GTX 1080 Ti. And I wanted the fastest ray tracing possible in gaming. Only one GPU fits that description, and it's the one currently inhabiting my machine, RTX 3090. And I got exactly that, the fastest ray tracing possible. Currently paying dividends in Metro Exodus but a little disappointed in Ubisoft for Watch Dogs Legions lacking optimization, but still looks pretty at least. But the REAL reason I upgraded is coming... Cyberpunk 2077. And as expected, I made the right choice of branding. Kinda knew that Nvidia was gonna have the leg up for RT in this game, just didn't expect it to be an exclusive at launch.

I do think CDPR is making a mistake by not at least enabling SOME RT effects on Rx 6000 for game launch. While some of the effects may indeed need some optimization for the ray accelerators of AMD, pretty sure at least Ambient Occlusion and shadows could have been run in full DXR on Big Navi without needing much optimization to at least look good. I get that reflections in DXR need serious optimization, that is pretty intense, but other features are simpler and would look great on AMD ray accelerators. Disenfranchising AMD GPU owners at launch is a mistake, IMO. Godfall was no biggy to be AMD exclusive, I had zero interest in that game anyway and hadn't even heard of it until the Radeon launch anyway, LOL! Nobody is losing any sleep over that, but CP2077 really needed to be hardware agnostic for ray tracing at launch or it will take a reputation ding among the louder, but dumber gamers out there.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:28 am

moshpit wrote:
I do think CDPR is making a mistake by not at least enabling SOME RT effects on Rx 6000 for game launch. While some of the effects may indeed need some optimization for the ray accelerators of AMD, pretty sure at least Ambient Occlusion and shadows could have been run in full DXR on Big Navi without needing much optimization to at least look good.


Hmmm, depends on why it's being held back. It may not be for appearance issues: if it's for performance or stability reasons, they'd get roasted much more heavily for releasing an unplayable game than they will for not having support at launch. "Sure, it's got AO and realistic shadows, but it only runs at 30 FPS and locks up every 24 minutes" isn't a good look.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:42 am

K-L-Waster wrote:
moshpit wrote:
I do think CDPR is making a mistake by not at least enabling SOME RT effects on Rx 6000 for game launch. While some of the effects may indeed need some optimization for the ray accelerators of AMD, pretty sure at least Ambient Occlusion and shadows could have been run in full DXR on Big Navi without needing much optimization to at least look good.


Hmmm, depends on why it's being held back. It may not be for appearance issues: if it's for performance or stability reasons, they'd get roasted much more heavily for releasing an unplayable game than they will for not having support at launch. "Sure, it's got AO and realistic shadows, but it only runs at 30 FPS and locks up every 24 minutes" isn't a good look.


VERY good point. And potentially a real issue as AMD may have gotten hardware into CDPR's hands fairly late in the game compared to Nvidia, and that may be the telling factor in the end... who got hardware into their hands first and by how much time.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:03 am

We can guarantee CDPR had NVidia hardware earlier, 'cus Turing. AFAIK any RT that worked on the 2000 series will work pretty much the same way for Ampere, just faster. So CDPR has been working on RT using NVidia for a couple of years, and using RDNA2 for maybe a few months.
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Re: So, what do you guys think of the new Radeon 6000 series?

Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:15 am

K-L-Waster wrote:
We can guarantee CDPR had NVidia hardware earlier, 'cus Turing. AFAIK any RT that worked on the 2000 series will work pretty much the same way for Ampere, just faster. So CDPR has been working on RT using NVidia for a couple of years, and using RDNA2 for maybe a few months.


Undeniable facts. You hit the nail on the head, exactly so. However, with Godfall outright ignoring that exact factual reality, it's hard to escape the smell of timed exclusive ray tracing that seems to be creeping in. New detail, ALL RDNA2 is denied ray tracing at CP2077 launch, not just Radeon. Both major consoles will not have ray tracing for CP2077 at launch either. Definitely suspicious in light of questioning how DXR was utilized in CP2077.

With Turing RTX 2060 actually making it to the 1080p recommended list for CP2077, we have to assume Rx 6800XT has at least that much raw ray tracing grunt if not significantly more, one would HOPE, even un-optimized as long as DXR standards are strictly adhered to. Look to the DXR tests out there placing 6800XT solidly in 2080 Super - 2080 Ti ray tracing performance range. AMD's DXR implementation appears to have the raw grunt needed to keep up toe to toe with Turning.

I know it's not based on any hard proof, and with Godfall it's purely circumstantial evidence, but it really looks like intentional timed feature exclusives are becoming a norm.

News quote - "Additionally, AMD GPU owners won’t be alone in waiting for these enhanced visuals. Next-gen consoles will be able to run Cyberpunk 2077 as soon as it launches, but ray tracing will only come to said consoles via an update at a later date."

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