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Talk about lashing out at the competition...

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 12:18 pm
by MadCatz
Dunno if anyone has seen this yet, but it is a supposed press release by Nvidia earlier this morning.

Powerpoint

Some say its true, some say it's not. Personally I have no idea, however it does raise some interesting questions. It would probably be more believable if the most radical data and quotes didn't come from Tom's Hardware Guide :roll: .

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 12:26 pm
by danny e.
nVidia is upset because they spent a fortune to recapture the top... and ATI didnt let them.

i am growing to like nVidia less and less... based on the things that the top dogs there are saying. ATI at least admits when they do something dumb. nVidia lies through their teeth all the time. i like their mb chipsets though :)

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 12:28 pm
by FroBozz_Inc
Interesting stuff.

Hope my 9800pro I got this year lasts at least 1.5-2 years so I don't have to worry about all this graphics crap.

nVidia and ATi are like a couple children playing the blame game. It's all very dull and boring to me. Especially reading about optimizations...

I would never recommend either of the two new lines of graphics cards to someone unless the person is rich and really really wants the very best there is available. $450+ is just way too much...$250 is around the most I would ever pay.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 1:31 pm
by Buub
Re: highest-end cards costing too much
You can't completely blame them. They wouldn't make these expensive high-end cards if people didn't continually demand more performance at any cost. If those cards didn't sell, ATI and nVidia wouldn't be making them.

And I hate to break it to some people (not picking on you FroBozz, just a general sentiment), but the $400-$500 cards cost that much because they cost a lot to make. The biggest cost is the very high-speed RAM. All by itself, slower RAM will bring down those video card prices. Also, in some cases, the highest-end card requires a more sophisticated (more layers) circuit board to handle the super-high speeds, which is also more expensive. Plus let's not forget that they have to cherry-pick their very best cores, and need to recoup design and fab costs with them.

I'm not saying they're not making a good profit on these, because obviously they would be stupid not to. But, the cost isn't entirely artificial. Those highest-end cards cost a lot more to make.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 1:54 pm
by just brew it!
Heh... more mud-slinging in graphics-land... not surprising at all. :roll:

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 2:23 pm
by LicketySplit
It will always be this way...tooth and nail...just buy whatever one suits your fancy...shoulda called this one the "Thrilla of Godzilla" :lol:

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 3:04 pm
by random gerbil
NVidia CEO: "We need to do something quick. Our cards were supposed to be the fastest and greatest, yet here we are getting beat in review after review."
Marketing: "Maybe we should emphasize some of our key features and advantages, and remind customers why our cards are better."
NVidia CEO: "Excellent. What did you have in mind?"
Marketing: "Actually i was just going to say 'Lets flame ATI' but that sounded better. Truth is, everything i just said before, pure BS."
NVidia CEO: "Flame ATI, even better. I hear their 8500s are having some sort of quake 3 issue...lets beat them on that, sounds like iffy drivers. O and they released cards with different clocks speeds, sounds fishy to me. And berate and mock anyone who might remind everyone how we changed clock speeds too on the 6800u; pretend they have no idea what they are talking about. Ditto with respect to our brilinear filtering driver 'bugs'."
Marketing: "And dont forget they are using last year's architecture. Ancient stuff. I mean really who wants old proven technology that proves to be just as fast as, if not better than, our new and unproven chips."
NVidia CEO: "Good work boys, this is why we get paid the top dollar."

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:13 pm
by Ryu Connor
If anyone here believes that ATI doesn't have similar slides internally that bash the NV40 I need you to contact me immediately.

I have a bridge to sell and you'd be a perfect candidate.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:22 pm
by danny e.
Ryu Connor wrote:
If anyone here believes that ATI doesn't have similar slides internally that bash the NV40 I need you to contact me immediately.

I have a bridge to sell and you'd be a perfect candidate.


how much you selling the bridge for?

and... if you belive this document was meant to be internal i have a herd of goats to sell you. they are easy to take care of since they eat anything and everything... . but dang they poop everywhere too.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:24 pm
by Forge
ATI isn't handing out the hypothetical slides to hardware reviewers. That makes all the difference in the world to me.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:54 pm
by Ryu Connor
The rabid fanboys come out in force.

Rawr. Ruff, ruff.

Man bites dog, story at eleven.

Coporations make money and compete, story at eleven.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:04 pm
by danny e.
Ryu Connor wrote:
The rabid fanboys come out in force.

Rawr. Ruff, ruff.
Man bites dog, story at eleven.
Coporations make money and compete, story at eleven.

lol who is the fan boy?
you are the only one barking. i dont care what company makes my computer parts.. just want them to be good.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:09 pm
by Ryu Connor
You don't have a good grasp of prose, Danny.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:20 pm
by Sargent Duck
I had a chuckle when I read that part about ATI not knowing how to do shader 3.0. They obviously mastered shader 2, and from what I understand, shader 3 is just a more optimized version of 2, so what the......?

Although funny, I can't really believe it's an actual internal Nvidia slide. They couldn't really be that naive, could they?

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:21 pm
by Ryu Connor
Although funny, I can't really believe it's an actual internal Nvidia slide. They couldn't really be that naive, could they?


There are lies, damn lies, and marketing. :-P

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:01 pm
by Brap
Correct,I was labeled ATI-fanboy several times,I was the guy the with the TNT,GF2 GTS and Ti4200.

Isn't that weird?

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:18 pm
by Forge
Well, I'm still waiting anxiously for my opportunity to buy a GeForce 6800 Ultra Extreme. Hell, I'd take an Ultra at this point. What am I saying, I'd take the GT if it has dual DVI.

Cause, you know, Nvidia said the GF6 series would be available at retail on May 25th... You know, today?

Instead we get more of this puerile BS.

See, I can buy an X800 Pro RIGHT F'ING NOW.

Either that, or I can WAIT MORE for a chance to buy some of Nvidia's fun vapor.

It's hard NOT to be an ATI fanboy in this situation. THEY DELIVERED.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:55 pm
by JustAnEngineer
Patience, Forge.

I don't see why you're all in huff over this. NVidia lied to you again about the availability of new cards based on their latest generation chip. Why are you surprised?

Fool me once, shame on you, lie to the public dozens of times, and I'd have to be an idiot to believe a word that Derek Perez says.

I will wait patiently until the hardware actually arrives. Damage will give me lots of X-Y line charts to show the relative performance. The good folks at Beyond3D will dissect the image quality. I don't have to read any of those words that NVidia's PR puts out.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:03 pm
by Forge
Nah, I've been waiting long enough. Payday is Monday. Unless there's evidence that the GF6 family is really, really close to my hands, I'll just jump for the X800 Pro.

I haven't had a good FPS match in almost two months. I'm feeling twitchy.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:04 pm
by OsakaJ
Ryu Connor wrote:
There are lies, damn lies, and marketing.
:-P

There are lies, damn lies, and marketing....and then comes Nvidia's marketing schemes since its FX card problems. Gentlemen, I think that ATI has Nvidia running scared. It's a shame, too, because they have a decent product. They just need to concentrate on making good cards, instead of wasting so much effort shoveling manure.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:12 pm
by Krogoth
You cannot directly buy a 6800 Ultra Extreme, they are exclusively available only for high-end systems for Voodoo PC, Northwest Falcon and Alienware. The 6800UE is just a 6800U clocked to the bleeding edge meaning no headroom. Anyway from what I seen almost all 6800U should have dual DVI connectors once you get a unit. Personally, I don't know what's the big rush for X800 and 6800 the only game that it's useful for right now is Far Cry(Doom 3 is coming down road in the next few months) if you want good FPS with uber-high resolutions. I can't find any jusifcation for spending $500 only for that. While, the 9800P/5950U can get by just fine unil next year.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:25 pm
by Forge
I play at the native resolution of my panel. An X800 Pro or a GF6800U will let me play most anything at that res, and that's what I want. Playing BFV/BF1942/Desert Combat at 800*600 because I'm on a Quadro FX 1100 is getting old fast. Even on a 5950U (which isn't really available anymore) will still leave me at 800*600 for Halo and FarCry, for starters.

Just take my word for it that I want a 6800 Ultra bad, but I'm ready to give up and take the X800 Pro that's available as promised.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:39 pm
by JustAnEngineer
Can you handle three more weeks without gaming Nirvana, Forge?

ETA: 7-June-2004
ETA: 8-June-2004
ETA: 8-June-2004

P.S.: "Beginning of June" is also the ETA for one vendor offering pre-orders on the Radeon X800 XT "Vedio card."

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:04 pm
by Buub
Krogoth255 wrote:
You cannot directly buy a 6800 Ultra Extreme, they are exclusively available only for high-end systems for Voodoo PC, Northwest Falcon and Alienware.


I don't believe that is true. There are three manufacturers who have the opportunity to make them. Only Gainward is going to be able to deliver in the short term because they put together that cool water-cooled system. The other two are air-cooled, and apparantly can't get enough chips that will run at that speed with air cooling.

This is from either El'Reg or The Inq, don't remember which.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:06 pm
by Sargent Duck
Hee hee hee.

I clicked on that first link, and the main page was the e-geforce 6800. Guess what caught my eye more? The big advertisement for a 9800xt at the top of the screen :D

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:06 pm
by Hizpanick
is it just me, or is Guru3d the haven for all Nvidiots, err, pro-Nividia-in-the-face-of-overwhelming-evidence-against-them fans?

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:31 pm
by Forge
Pfeh at more guess release dates.

Last one I heard that I trusted said 'end of May', and that one's rapidly passing.

I stick by my statement. If I have my paycheck in hand, and I can't order a GF6800U, then I'll take the X800 Pro. I need to get my frag on.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 11:18 pm
by Krogoth
Well it looks like your in a tight postion Forge, on the one hand you can get the X800 PRO right now but, ATI's Linux drivers still suck. But, with the 6800 you'll have to wait a "few" more weeks to have even a chance to order one. If I were in your postion I would wait until the more reasonible 6800GT comes out which is on par for the most part with the X800 PRO with more far stable Linux drivers. Waiting for another month isn't going to kill you and I doubt ATI will be able to improve their Linux drivers in that timeframe at their current rate.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 11:47 pm
by dmitriylm
I was reading that thread at Guru3D and as much as I love my GF4, some of these guys have serious holes in their method of thought.

"We cant even compare the X800 and NV40 because they are completely different generations of hardware. NV40 supports PS3.0!!!!!"

Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 12:28 am
by Splinter
Forge my boy, I remember this time last year you were warning me over and over again not to buy the GFX 5900U until there were some solid reviews out and the hardware had proved itself, and to keep my options open especially until there was a game out that could take advantage of it.

I didn't listen.

That hunk of silicon and aluminum is still sitting in my box, worth less than a third of what I paid for, and it's never gotten a real workout to date (Well, Vice City pushed it pretty hard, but still)

The only thing that could possibly happen if you sit on your money is that the new nVidia card comes out, and it sucks. You still have your money, and the X800 might have even dropped a few bucks in price.

How can you lose?