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jackfrost wrote:

My score is probably mostly because I've done absolutely nothing to tweak performance.

I do see some throttling yes (core clock goes from 1202 to 1071, ram clock stays steady), but even with the throttling it's better than the available alternatives. Yes, a better heatsink would be better (I've thought about putting the effort in to design a machined block of aluminium that "wraps" around the card for extra cooling, but honestly it works well enough for me not to bother. I don't really think I see throttling in anything but benchmarks, but I'll check.

I don't optimize my system at all either. As long as you know your GPU is being throttled and is ok with it. I contemplated getting a heatsink that wrapped around too, but realized I wouldn't have enough space to use it.

deruberhanyok wrote:

EVGA has a single slot GeForce GT 740:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

Next update to the main post I'll be including that under the single-slot NVIDIA options. It isn't Maxwell, but it's still a better choice than the GT 730 for the green camp.

Price isn't bad, either, although I don't know why they didn't include a displayport output.

Oh, that's not bad at all... performance is right around the AMD radeon 7750's level, though I don't know if the benchmarks I'm looking at are for the DDR3 or GDDR5 variant...unfortunately, the TDP is actually higher than the 750ti...

For those of us looking to scavenge heat sinks and fans...it looks like they are the right mounting pattern for the half height 750 cards...

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.p ... 40&id=2883

Hello all, thanks for the thread, helped me work out what I wanted/ needed
I have an old machine that I want to upgrade (can't afford to replace yet)
I have a HP dc7700p ultra-slim desktop and have just bought a sapphire AMD R7 250 low profile card

My computer isn't detecting it. I have looked at manuals for the computer and if you add a GPU, the onboard one should be disabled. There's no option to select boot order for GPU or to disable the onboard card in BIOS.

I've tried uninstalling the onboard graphics, I've tried disabling it, but no luck.

Thought I'd post here to see if you have any recommendations.

Thanks, Mike

M1kej0nes wrote:

Hello all, thanks for the thread, helped me work out what I wanted/ needed
I have an old machine that I want to upgrade (can't afford to replace yet)
I have a HP dc7700p ultra-slim desktop and have just bought a sapphire AMD R7 250 low profile card

My computer isn't detecting it. I have looked at manuals for the computer and if you add a GPU, the onboard one should be disabled. There's no option to select boot order for GPU or to disable the onboard card in BIOS.

I've tried uninstalling the onboard graphics, I've tried disabling it, but no luck.

Thought I'd post here to see if you have any recommendations.

Thanks, Mike

You've got a 200W PSU in there. My 8200 has a 240W one, and that seems to be plenty for a GT730. (But OK, higher wattage PSU, lower wattage GPU.) I'd think that your config would work at least on idle, but hard to say. What CPU are you running? (These were offered with Pentium D's and early Core 2 Duo's).

Also, as I recall, the 8000 (maybe 8100) and earlier will NOT let you run both GPUs at once, ever. Put in a dGPU, and you're using that dGPU only. The one exception is if you get (I think) a PCIe x1 GPU, then those will let you use both. PCIe chipset limitations from what I can tell. (Even on the Q45 - and you're on a Q965.) I'm running onboard plus a dGPU on my 8200 (and I've seen people run 2 basic dGPUs but no onboard with these), and the onboard got switched off as soon as I put the card in, although it let me go back in and enable the other card, set the default, etc. (On an older one like yours, there is no such option. Can't do it.)

Also keep in mind that HP says to stick to 25W on the PCIe x16 slot for USFF and SFF, and a R7 250 is definitely over that. I've heard of people getting away with it though (didn't want to try it myself). http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocumen ... =c04290684

localhostrulez wrote:

M1kej0nes wrote:

Hello all, thanks for the thread, helped me work out what I wanted/ needed
I have an old machine that I want to upgrade (can't afford to replace yet)
I have a HP dc7700p ultra-slim desktop and have just bought a sapphire AMD R7 250 low profile card

My computer isn't detecting it. I have looked at manuals for the computer and if you add a GPU, the onboard one should be disabled. There's no option to select boot order for GPU or to disable the onboard card in BIOS.

I've tried uninstalling the onboard graphics, I've tried disabling it, but no luck.

Thought I'd post here to see if you have any recommendations.

Thanks, Mike

You've got a 200W PSU in there. My 8200 has a 240W one, and that seems to be plenty for a GT730. (But OK, higher wattage PSU, lower wattage GPU.) I'd think that your config would work at least on idle, but hard to say. What CPU are you running? (These were offered with Pentium D's and early Core 2 Duo's).

Also, as I recall, the 8000 (maybe 8100) and earlier will NOT let you run both GPUs at once, ever. Put in a dGPU, and you're using that dGPU only. The one exception is if you get (I think) a PCIe x1 GPU, then those will let you use both. PCIe chipset limitations from what I can tell. (Even on the Q45 - and you're on a Q965.) I'm running onboard plus a dGPU on my 8200 (and I've seen people run 2 basic dGPUs but no onboard with these), and the onboard got switched off as soon as I put the card in, although it let me go back in and enable the other card, set the default, etc. (On an older one like yours, there is no such option. Can't do it.)

Also keep in mind that HP says to stick to 25W on the PCIe x16 slot for USFF and SFF, and a R7 250 is definitely over that. I've heard of people getting away with it though (didn't want to try it myself). http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocumen ... =c04290684

You just might be able to run a Geforce GT 720, as it's a Kepler part with a 19 watt TDP... That won't offer thrilling performance by any means, but it's definitely better than a Core 2 IGP.

M1kej0nes wrote:

Thought I'd post here to see if you have any recommendations.

Assuming you haven't yet tried, have you tried plugging it in another computer at your disposal to double-check that it's working? That'd be the first step.

What CPU are you running? (These were offered with Pentium D's and early Core 2 Duo's).

Also, as I recall, the 8000 (maybe 8100) and earlier will NOT let you run both GPUs at once, ever

Hi - Intel core 2 6400 2.13GHz

I don't want to run both at once, just upgrade from the onboard.

I had though power may be an issue, and had read posts elsewhere that made me think I'd get away with it.

I guess I'll return it and keep saving...

Thanks for your help, Mike

M1kej0nes wrote:

What CPU are you running? (These were offered with Pentium D's and early Core 2 Duo's).

Also, as I recall, the 8000 (maybe 8100) and earlier will NOT let you run both GPUs at once, ever

Hi - Intel core 2 6400 2.13GHz

I don't want to run both at once, just upgrade from the onboard.

I had though power may be an issue, and had read posts elsewhere that made me think I'd get away with it.

I guess I'll return it and keep saving...

Thanks for your help, Mike

Have you tried physically switching your monitor cable to the outputs on the R7 250?

Ordered a Quadro K1200 for one of my systems at work. I haven't installed it yet - turns out it does not include a regular height bracket, and the Dell SFF system I'd intended to put it in wound up on someone else's desk due to circumstances beyond my control, so I either need to find another SFF box to use it or contact PNY about getting a compatible full height bracket - but I did do a quick measurement of the heatsink, if anyone is curious.

The fan mounting holes are in a rectangle, 40mm x 23mm as near as I could tell. It's about 5cm tall and 12cm long. Entirely single slot - it appears to work exactly like a miniaturized version of the reference blower style cooler on larger GeForce cards. It has a 4-pin power connector and the length of cable coming out of the heatsink seems to be about 35mm long. On the card the power connector is 25mm from the edge of the heatsink so the cable has a little slack.

If those dimensions match up to the low profile GTX 750/750ti cards this might be a good fit. But I can't find any images of those cards without their heatsink shroud, so I'm not sure if the power connector is the same, etc.

This thread is one of a kind - thanks for the effort!

One piece of additional information, I just bought that EVGA GT 740 2GB GDDR5 card (there's a rebate available which put it at $75 on Amazon) and put it in my Antec ISK 300-150. It works great - unfortunately a bit louder than my Noctua fans but not too bad. One caveat though, the HDMI port is blocked by the overhanging piece of the case which holds the card in. Not sure what to do here - seems like just cutting off that piece would be good if I had the right tools.

I noticed a similar issue with the full size displayport output on the Radeon HD 7570 I'd tested. I found that removing the black part that folds down on the card (you can just remove the screw on the hinge and it pops right off) got it so I could connect the cable without worrying about it bending. And, I could still secure the video card to the bracket with a screw. It just needed a little bit of extra clearance, which came when I removed the hinged part.

If you decide you want to cut the metal, though, two things: first, make sure you completely disassemble your system before you do it, removing everything you can, and obviously, be safe: safety goggles, and if you're using a dremel, some kind of breathing mask so you don't get metal filings all up in your nose. Second, make sure you leave the part where the PCIe card would screw down in place. And most importantly: clean the heck out of it before you put your system together. Those metal filings will outright ruin your system if they hit the wrong part of any of your components.

Glad to hear the EVGA card is working out for you, otherwise.

Hi all:

Joining this convo late, in hopes that someone with insight into the Optiplex 9020 SFF might be able to shed light on whether the MSI GTX card would work in that small space. The computer is enroute, and I was hoping to order the Gfx card for it prior to its arrival!

Thanks!

Hi bapaik, welcome to TR!

arunphilip asked this exact question about a year ago and the answer for him at the time was to go with a Radeon:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94477

That said, Dell's SFF boxes typically have two expansion slots on them, but the pictures of the 9020 SFF I've seen (and arunphilip's own post) indicate that the x16 PCI Express slot is the one closest to the power supply, making it impossible to fit a double-slot video card into it.

If you looks up the owner's manual for the 9020 SFF you'll see what I'm talking about on the system board layout (page 28/29 has a very clear picture).

I wouldn't buy the MSI card - it just won't fit. You're going to be limited to single slot in that case. If you want a GeForce card, your best option right now is the EVGA single slot 740 I have listed in the main post, but that's going to be on par or slightly slower than a Radeon R7 250, and definitely slower than a 250E.

Alternately, wait and see what happens with the rest of the GeForce 900 series - we've already gotten a low profile single slot Maxwell card, equivalent to the GeForce 750, in the form of the Quadro K1200. It's possible that when the GeForce 940/950 come out we'll see a similar design appear in the consumer-level cards. I'd really like that, because it would be perfect for the system I put together a year ago that sparked this whole thing in the first place.

bapaik PMed me on this topic earlier today . In that conversation, I've also concluded that the double-width MSI won't fit. I've asked him to hold on for AMD's announcement on 16-Jun, and the reviews of their new cards to see if its better to pick one up from that series. Tying in with that, your excellent advice about the GeForce 900 series is equally relevant - bapaik is best served by waiting to see how both the new Radeons and GeForces shape up.

Great Threat, great help, thanks.
I am looking around for a low profile single slot card for quite a while. Now I got a Nvidia GTX 745. I think this one is fastest (Quadro K1200 could be faster, but no benchmarks available by now).

The GTX 745 is an OEM card, found in Dell and Acer mini Gaming PCs

The card is based on the GTX 750, but with only 384 pipes. It has 4 GB RAM (too much, I know). The DDR3 with 128bit is no problem, because the card has the new Maxwell chip. This chip has a new compression method and bigger L1 and L2 caches, so memory bandwith is no big problem.

In my Acer PC with a normal 4x3,2 Ghz i5 4460 CPU, i got nearly 19.000 points in 3dmark 2006. It is an old benchmark, but good for comparison, because most GPUs have a score for this benchmark at "notebookcheck.com". GT 740 is between 11.000 (DDR3) and 15.500 (DDR5).

I play Diablo 3 in full HD and everything max and af+aa with 45 fps (playable 30 fps with vsync).

Regards
Yrr.

deruberhanyok wrote:

Ordered a Quadro K1200 for one of my systems at work.

How is that K1200 working out? Its been a year since I started using my Optiplex 9020, and the upgrade itch has started. I'm considering either a video card upgrade (to something quieter/more powerful/both), or an SSD upgrade (currently running SanDisk Extreme II at 256 GB, considering the SanDisk Extreme Pro at 480 GB).

Oh, it's a fine card, but I absolutely can't recommend buying one unless you specifically need a low profile workstation card. If it's just for everyday system use, gaming, etc, for the price it's just a terrible value. It does seem to be (subjectively, of course) a little quieter than the Powercolor R7 250 quad mini-displayport card, and performance will obviously be better, but not enough to make the $350 price tag even remotely reasonable.

Now's as good a time as any to update the first post, so I'll get to that in a bit, but it seems like AMD has decided to just rebrand the entire Rx 200 line into the Rx 300 line, which is sad since some of the 200 cards were already rebrands of the HD 7x00 generation. Combine that with whatever is happening with NVIDIA's 940/950 cards - current rumours point to the 950, at least, not fitting into a low profile form factor due to a 90W power rating - and I think the low profile (and especially the low profile single slot) space isn't going to experience any big shakeups this generation - I guess we're all stuck waiting for next gen, again. The best we can hope for right now is that we wind up with 750ti performance in a low profile, single slot form factor (which could possibly happen, or possibly not. I guess we'll know more August 17th, current rumoured launch date for the GTX 950 and possibly for everything in the "low end" of the line, too).

On the bright side, GTX 750 and 750ti cards have dropped in price by a significant amount - the MSI 750ti card I have listed as the recommendation is down from $150 to $120 as of this posting.

Thanks for the update -- I keep tuning in to see if any advancements will be made! You've definitely got me reading!

deruberhanyok wrote:

Oh, it's a fine card, but I absolutely can't recommend buying one unless you specifically need a low profile workstation card. If it's just for everyday system use, gaming, etc, for the price it's just a terrible value. It does seem to be (subjectively, of course) a little quieter than the Powercolor R7 250 quad mini-displayport card, and performance will obviously be better, but not enough to make the $350 price tag even remotely reasonable.

Thank you, I'll wait for another generation or so (or for my next desktop refresh!).

Hi, will a Dell Optiplex 990 SFF power supply be able to handle a Gigabyte GV-N75TOC-2GL low profile card? It has a i7 2600s processor, 8 gb RAM, a normal 250GB HDD which I'm going to swap for a 256gb SSD and no optical drive at all. The power supply is about 240w I think. I've read many user reviews saying that it will handle the GPU no problems, even though it's a smaller wattage than the recommended one (400w). I can't seem to find stores in the UK that will have the MSI/ZOTAC cards. Main reason why I want to buy this SFF unit is the size and the fact that it's the cheapest i7 second hand build I can get at the moment: 230£ for the SFF unit and 92£ for the graphics...will get a decent 4k monitor to go with it.

Radu_Korne wrote:

Hi, will a Dell Optiplex 990 SFF power supply be able to handle a Gigabyte GV-N75TOC-2GL low profile card? It has a i7 2600s processor, 8 gb RAM, a normal 250GB HDD which I'm going to swap for a 256gb SSD and no optical drive at all. The power supply is about 240w I think. I've read many user reviews saying that it will handle the GPU no problems, even though it's a smaller wattage than the recommended one (400w). I can't seem to find stores in the UK that will have the MSI/ZOTAC cards. Main reason why I want to buy this SFF unit is the size and the fact that it's the cheapest i7 second hand build I can get at the moment: 230£ for the SFF unit and 92£ for the graphics...will get a decent 4k monitor to go with it.

OEMs tend to not make their PSUs very efficient in comparison to the PSUs pc builders buy. I don't think an inefficient 240W PSU will be able to take a low power i7 and the 750 ti. It probably could run, but it may not be stable while running benchmarks and very intensive programs that load both the gpu and cpu (read folding at home; don't read video games).

srry, can't post links but anyway

watch?v=V5_o89xTToU

these guys used a zotac low profile... saw many user comments saying the low profile cards like this can work no problems with a 240w PSU.

Hi Radu, welcome to TR!

The 990 SFF power supply that I've seen is rated at 17A on the 12V rail, so it's max combined 12v output is just over 200W. That video card is rated to pull up to 65W, and the low power i7 2600 was rated at 65W as well (I'm assuming the system you're looking at has an i7-2600S).

In short, I don't think you'll have any problem running that video card in that system.

One thing to note: the power supplies in those systems have been known to just fail from time to time. Finding replacements is pretty easy in the US (I can get replacements on Amazon for a reasonable price, for instance) but you might want to check and see if you can do the same before buying one. I'm not saying you should expect it to fail, but if it does, it would be good to know you can get a replacement.

Wish NV would just make a GTX 950 that has a bios that detects the 6 pin connector if it is not plugged in and then reduces clock speeds enough to keep it around 70 watts.
A low profile design would be nice also.

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed to see the 950 fall where it did. Looks like a great 1080p card, though.

Maybe GeForce 940 will be updated silicon that fits into the low profile / single slot form factor. That's... really my last hope for this generation.

Hey folks!

New user here. This thread has been invaluable! I just snagged a Lenovo ThinkCentre M58p 7483WEZ (E8400, 4GB, 250GB HDD) for $43 on eBay to get a Steam Box/Emulator/HTPC up and running. The PSU is 280W, so I don't foresee any issues with wattage - however, finding something that will fit is going to be the next step. I suspect I'll be stuck with using a single slot solution, unless I can creatively engineer the interior. I should have it by Monday, so I should know by then what I need. Right now, I'm thinking a 740 or R7 250 is my best bet.

Any suggestions for easy benchmarks to do on low end cards? Mostly for HTPC purposes, but I snagged a GT730, but it is the Kepler variant with GDDR5 memory.

I know some other people complained that the low end Fermi cards were better because they had 128bit memory versus 64 bit, but out of the 730s, the GDDR5 should have a fair bit more memory bandwidth than the others, and at that price point, that's usually the problem? I have a GTX750 as well, it would be nice to know the relative performance down in the basement. It's easy to find this info once you get out of the low-end.

Yeah, I have the same thing - GT730 with GDDR5. One of the better cards I could find with a low wattage (since it's in an SFF PC). And I can't say it's ever been a problem for what I do on that machine.

Hi, thank you all for the answers. Yes, I can find a replacement PSU if this one will fail; it's not as cheap as in the USA, though. Can I find any compatible PSU with higher wattage? I received the unit, got my GPU and display but I'm still waiting for the SSD to test everything. I'm thinking of installing Windows on the SSD and a linux distro (Ubuntu or Linux Lite) on the old 250gb HDD. The thing is that the unit is missing the COA for it's OEM Windows 7 (the refurbished unit was not sold with a COA, nothing I can do)... got a few ideas:

1. Gaming on Ubuntu... not good enough for me, I can run WoT, but not Armored Warfare, the only 2 games I play anyway atm. I also like some old games (Mafia etc.)
2. Buy Windows 10. A bit too expensive, though.
3. Buy a Windows 7 license and upgrade in the future to Win 10 (I'm not eager to use Win 10 anyway)

Last option is the best for me, as it requires only 30-32£ worth of spending. But what type of license do I need for the Optiplex 990 SFF, do I have to buy a Dell one? Or any Win 7 license will work? Also, if I buy a 32bit one, will I get the Win 10 64 bit upgrade?

captaintrav wrote:

Any suggestions for easy benchmarks to do on low end cards? Mostly for HTPC purposes, but I snagged a GT730, but it is the Kepler variant with GDDR5 memory.

I know some other people complained that the low end Fermi cards were better because they had 128bit memory versus 64 bit, but out of the 730s, the GDDR5 should have a fair bit more memory bandwidth than the others, and at that price point, that's usually the problem? I have a GTX750 as well, it would be nice to know the relative performance down in the basement. It's easy to find this info once you get out of the low-end.

Should have grabbed a 750ti or a HD 7750 for the HTPC...least you can game on it if you want or game with a friend or family member in the same house..it is quite fun IMHO ...had a lot of friends bring PC's to my house for long gaming sessions.