Personal computing discussed

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Acidicheartburn
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Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:34 pm

I recently acquired an HP Compaq 6200 Pro Small Form Factor desktop tower computer with an i7 2600 and 8 GB of RAM, running off of a 500GB Seagate Barracuda. It came with Win 7 Pro 64 bit which I upgraded to 10, then did a clean reinstall of 10 from a fresh ISO. Unfortunately, Windows 10 seems to load and login unusually slow. Possibly even slower than the Win 7 that came with the computer. I have a separate laptop with a lowly i3 from 2013 that boots, loads Windows 8, and logs in much faster, all running off of a WD Blue HDD. The same goes for another laptop I have with an i7 5500u and a similar HDD.

Why's this thing load Windows so slow? It takes about 30-40 seconds after POST before I see the home screen. Are some motherboards just slower to load Windows, even AFTER POST? Before you ask, no I don't have a bunch of things set to startup. I'm not a novice user. I've made sure Fast Boot is set to ON in the Power Options settings menu. What gives?
Last edited by Acidicheartburn on Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
localhostrulez
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:48 pm

OK, that's whacky - I have an HP 8200 (similar but higher-end chipset) with an i5 2400, and it's very zippy to boot off an SSD. Could the drive be failing? Do you have UEFI enabled? (Before anyone asks - yes, the 8200's have UEFI, and I think the 6200's do as well. I don't think the 8100/6100 did, and I know for sure the 8000/6000 didn't.)
Last edited by localhostrulez on Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
madlemming
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:49 pm

This article walks you through how to setup a boot performance trace, so you can see what the problem is:
https://Helgeklein.com/blog/2013/07/ana ... -analyzer/

heh, it's been so long since I've booted from a magnetic disk, I don't even know what an average time is anymore...
 
Acidicheartburn
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:03 pm

localhostrulez wrote:
OK, that's whacky - I have an HP 8200 (similar but higher-end chipset) with an i5 2400, and it's very zippy to boot off an SSD. Could the drive be failing? Do you have UEFI enabled? (Before anyone asks - yes, the 8200's have UEFI, and I think the 6200's do as well. I don't think the 8100/6100 did, and I know for sure the 8000/6000 didn't.)

I'm skeptical that the drive is failing, even given this being a Seagate. I don't have any other "symptoms" that I can tell. Once the computer is on, it runs amazingly smooth, given it's running off a HDD. My main rig runs off an SSD, and even with Win 7 boots faster than this on 10. Yet that i3 laptop on Win 8 I mentioned boots just as fast as my Win 7 SSD rig. Which is why I'm confused. I understand it that Win 10 should boot roughly as fast as 8.

I don't think UEFI is enabled. I had to play with the BIOS a bit after I received the computer and it was standard BIOS, no mouse allowed.
Last edited by Acidicheartburn on Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Acidicheartburn
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:04 pm

madlemming wrote:
This article walks you through how to setup a boot performance trace, so you can see what the problem is:
https://Helgeklein.com/blog/2013/07/ana ... -analyzer/

heh, it's been so long since I've booted from a magnetic disk, I don't even know what an average time is anymore...

Thanks for the link. I'll see if I can give it a try, but I'm not intensely computer savvy so I'm not sure I'll know how to apply anything meaningful from the data I get. I'll post some screenshots here when I try it tomorrow.
 
toki
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:14 pm

I am on a newly bought SSD and windows 10 boot time is at least 10 to 15 seconds before it gets to the home page. I was wondering why it's so slow as well.
 
biffzinker
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:32 pm

toki wrote:
I am on a newly bought SSD and windows 10 boot time is at least 10 to 15 seconds before it gets to the home page. I was wondering why it's so slow as well.

Not bad for buying a lemon though huh? :D
It would take you 2,363 continuous hours or 98 days,11 hours, and 35 minutes of gameplay to complete your Steam library.
In this time you could travel to Venus one time.
 
toki
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:39 pm

biffzinker wrote:
toki wrote:
I am on a newly bought SSD and windows 10 boot time is at least 10 to 15 seconds before it gets to the home page. I was wondering why it's so slow as well.

Not bad for buying a lemon though huh? :D
I like it. I just wish I did a better board to fully utilize the features of the SSD and be able to overclock. I did not do my homework, so I'm stuck with it. I do like this board though, I just wish I was able to push more out with it.
 
Flying Fox
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:20 pm

A lot of gerbils here already got an SSD so comparing boot times with a mechanical is just not fair. However, since you have some samples with mechanicals I will trust your observations.

Did you separate how much it is the BIOS and perhaps even the RAID BIOS doing their booting? When measuring boot time of the OS itself you should measure from after all the BIOSes (mobo, video card?, RAID controllers, etc.) have finished. I usually start from the time the Windows logo shows up, but before the circle of dots starts to appear below it.
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localhostrulez
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:25 pm

Acidicheartburn wrote:
I don't think UEFI is enabled. I had to play with the BIOS a bit after I received the computer and it was standard BIOS, no mouse allowed.

For the record, UEFI's don't always have a mouse. Look for legacy and UEFI/EFI boot options on the 6200. That said, you're probably running in legacy BIOS mode if it shipped with Win7.

I'm also curious, how does Win10 behave with fast boot *off* (or when restarted, which temporarily ignores it and reboots the kernel)? I usually disable that feature, because it's always seemed a little glitchy to me at times (even with 8).

I've also never seen any of those HP elites take more than a few seconds to POST.
 
toki
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:26 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
A lot of gerbils here already got an SSD so comparing boot times with a mechanical is just not fair. However, since you have some samples with mechanicals I will trust your observations.

Did you separate how much it is the BIOS and perhaps even the RAID BIOS doing their booting? When measuring boot time of the OS itself you should measure from after all the BIOSes (mobo, video card?, RAID controllers, etc.) have finished. I usually start from the time the Windows logo shows up, but before the circle of dots starts to appear below it.
I am talking from the welcome page to home page. 10 to 15 seconds to load. Welcome page takes forever
 
biffzinker
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:04 am

Could try BootRacer been around for awhile, and used in hardware reviews.
Image
It would take you 2,363 continuous hours or 98 days,11 hours, and 35 minutes of gameplay to complete your Steam library.
In this time you could travel to Venus one time.
 
biffzinker
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:22 am

Here's my boot time for 2 SSDs in RAID 0 8)
Image

Edit: I have the Compatibility Mode Layer (emulating old BIOS) turned off in the uEFI, helps speed up POST for me but you get a warning telling you to make sure your hardware has signed EFI drivers before disabling Compatibility Mode.
Last edited by biffzinker on Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
It would take you 2,363 continuous hours or 98 days,11 hours, and 35 minutes of gameplay to complete your Steam library.
In this time you could travel to Venus one time.
 
Acidicheartburn
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:42 am

Flying Fox wrote:
A lot of gerbils here already got an SSD so comparing boot times with a mechanical is just not fair. However, since you have some samples with mechanicals I will trust your observations.

Did you separate how much it is the BIOS and perhaps even the RAID BIOS doing their booting? When measuring boot time of the OS itself you should measure from after all the BIOSes (mobo, video card?, RAID controllers, etc.) have finished. I usually start from the time the Windows logo shows up, but before the circle of dots starts to appear below it.

Yeah, the moment I see the windows logo to the moment I see my desktop background is what I go by. Obviously thats with automatic login.

And yeah, I am a stickler for fast startup times, especially with mobile PCs or in this case, my stereo audio PC. My other two laptops on regular HDDs boot up so incredibly fast on Win 8, I was really hoping this computer would show similar times (albeit with a longer POST as is usual for many desktop motherboards). My ultimate PC dream is to have a computer that has no RAM, but rather infinitely writable non-volatile high speed storage that could serve as both memory and storage at the same time. In theory, you could have a computer that was always "loaded" the moment you turned it on. I am really interested in what 3D Xpoint might bring to the table in this respect.
Last edited by Acidicheartburn on Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Acidicheartburn
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:47 am

localhostrulez wrote:
Acidicheartburn wrote:
I don't think UEFI is enabled. I had to play with the BIOS a bit after I received the computer and it was standard BIOS, no mouse allowed.

For the record, UEFI's don't always have a mouse. Look for legacy and UEFI/EFI boot options on the 6200. That said, you're probably running in legacy BIOS mode if it shipped with Win7.

I'm also curious, how does Win10 behave with fast boot *off* (or when restarted, which temporarily ignores it and reboots the kernel)? I usually disable that feature, because it's always seemed a little glitchy to me at times (even with 8).

I've also never seen any of those HP elites take more than a few seconds to POST.

The POST is so fast, it took me about ten tries to find the BIOS key the first time. It doesn't even last long enough to show up on my monitor before it wakes up from power saving mode... I haven't tried it with Fast Boot off, as it was enabled by default and my intentions are for this PC to boot quickly, as it is serving duty as my audio player for my stereo.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:56 am

Does Windows 10 still have the "disk controller can get stuck in PIO mode" issue? Haven't had to deal with that in years, but IIRC it could still happen as recently as Vista/Win7, so maybe the behavior is still there in 10 as well.

Have you considered using Sleep instead of powering the system all the way down?
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DPete27
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:37 am

My non-scientific observation** has been that Win10 seems to load/boot faster on machines that have it clean installed rather than upgraded from Win7.

**This is just from a handful of systems I've built or upgraded to Win10 in the last year and I've never done any quantitative testing on the issue.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
cphite
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:42 am

Just on a hunch, have you tried doing a full shutdown (shutdown /s /t 0) and then booting up from that to see if there is a difference? On my home machine, I was seeing some really long boot times after an update, and after doing that my boot times returned to normal. The same thing has happened on two occasions, both after Windows updates.
 
Acidicheartburn
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:12 pm

DPete27 wrote:
My non-scientific observation** has been that Win10 seems to load/boot faster on machines that have it clean installed rather than upgraded from Win7.

**This is just from a handful of systems I've built or upgraded to Win10 in the last year and I've never done any quantitative testing on the issue.

I have heard from other anecdotal sources that Win 10 starts up much faster on a clean install. One of my friends upgraded his laptop to 10 from 7 and said it started up incredibly slow after that, until he did a clean install. Now he says it starts lightning fast. I mentioned in my OP that I performed a clean install of 10 after upgrading first (so I could get my 10 key).
 
Acidicheartburn
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:13 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Does Windows 10 still have the "disk controller can get stuck in PIO mode" issue? Haven't had to deal with that in years, but IIRC it could still happen as recently as Vista/Win7, so maybe the behavior is still there in 10 as well.

Have you considered using Sleep instead of powering the system all the way down?

Saving power is a concern, so I don't want to use Sleep. The computer is also in a location where the mouse and or keyboard could get bumped and turn the computer on frequently.
 
Acidicheartburn
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:19 pm

Looks like I found the solution.

According to this page (http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-fast-startup-turn-off-windows-10-a.html), Hibernate needs to be enabled (found in the same menu where enabling Fast Startup is located) in order for Fast Startup to work. I enabled it (apparently it's disabled by default on a clean Win 10 install) and dropped my Windows load times down to an average of 10-11 seconds. Without it enabled it shoots right back up to about 40 seconds.

Shutting down using the command
shutdown /s /t 0
cphite mentioned nets a similar result (long load times).

Hopefully some others can find use in this information.
 
JpZedd
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Re: Windows 10 Startup Time

Fri May 20, 2016 9:49 pm

Acidicheartburn wrote:
I recently acquired an HP Compaq 6200 Pro Small Form Factor desktop tower computer with an i7 2600 and 8 GB of RAM, running off of a 500GB Seagate Barracuda. It came with Win 7 Pro 64 bit which I upgraded to 10, then did a clean reinstall of 10 from a fresh ISO. Unfortunately, Windows 10 seems to load and login unusually slow. Possibly even slower than the Win 7 that came with the computer. I have a separate laptop with a lowly i3 from 2013 that boots, loads Windows 8, and logs in much faster, all running off of a WD Blue HDD. The same goes for another laptop I have with an i7 5500u and a similar HDD.

Why's this thing load Windows so slow? It takes about 30-40 seconds after POST before I see the home screen. Are some motherboards just slower to load Windows, even AFTER POST? Before you ask, no I don't have a bunch of things set to startup. I'm not a novice user. I've made sure Fast Boot is set to ON in the Power Options settings menu. What gives?


Have you tried disabling the start up programs? That would help speeding up loading your Windows 10.

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