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Captain Ned wrote:

srg86 wrote:

lappys

No.

There's some quote/tag salad you need to work on there.

Upgraded to Windows 10 after last years ransomware attack worldwide, then I was using the windows 7. Regretted not upgrading at that time. So far the windows 10 is working perfectly fine, not as such issues faced as yet.

oliv88 wrote:

Upgraded to Windows 10 after last years ransomware attack worldwide, then I was using the windows 7. Regretted not upgrading at that time. So far the windows 10 is working perfectly fine, not as such issues faced as yet.

Just wait until you try to start your computer one morning and see nothing but a dark screen for minutes because Windows decided to upgrade itself in the night, and Microsoft thought it smart enough to just show you a blank screen - no visual indicators - while you wait for the updates to install

Do I sound bitter? Oh yes I do.

Absolutely hate how hard they've made it to troubleshoot stuff in the guise of trying to make blue screens look friendlier.

I've gotten a few support calls for busted W10 installs from clients who run computers in malls. You can probably guess how things went. The store's receptionist is about to close down for the night when W10 suddenly decides to update. She waits for a while, and a while longer still, but soon it's really time to leave and security shuts off the breaker. I get called in the next day because W10 is in a boot loop from having one or more of its files corrupted.

Of course I can't just boot into safe mode because it's W10 and it has to actually make it into the OS in order to select boot into troubleshooting options, never understood that the OS won't actually start itself up.

Ok, plug in installation media via USB, finally access recovery options. Try to do a system restore, which fails at the last minute because it couldn't finish restoring an important file, which usually turns on to be Spotify or Candy Crush.

End up reinstalling the whole OS. At least the USB installer is already 1809.

Shouldn't those be embedded for that type setup? Or managed through a domain with group policy?

I had to use DDU last night for the first time since installing W10, and realised that I can't get to safe mode any more.

Aside from the asinine obfuscation of important stuff like UEFI access and startup options, Safe mode is no longer a thing you can access without first booting into Windows. "Never mind", I thought to myself, "I'll just boot into my functioning Windows, access the recovery options, reboot into the advanced startup environment, and then reboot again into W10 safe mode."

Except no, W10's safe mode "friendlier blue-screen" dialog list of boot up choices doesn't recognise my motherboard USB controller so there is no keyboard or mouse. No, this is not some exotic motherboard, it's a garden-variety, common-as-muck Intel H97 motherboard, and I've tried both the intel chipset ports and the 3rd-party controller ports. Wondering if this was some quirk of my otherwise ordinary H97 board, I tried to access Safe Mode on my Ivy Bridge system, a Z77 Asrock board. Yeah, same problem :\

I double-checked that both systems were doing full USB initialisation on POST in the BIOS, and for giggles thought I'd try disabling legacy USB support to see if that was causing the problem, but the result was always the same. It appears that it works on my laptop, but then laptop keyboards aren't USB so that's not surprising, really.

What. The. Actual. F***?!
If Microsoft can't handle basic USB drivers for ridiculously common mainstream hardware (Panther Point and Lnyx Point chipset familes must cover hundreds of millions of PCs in use today) what's the actual point? Clearly only people with PS/2 keyboards are allowed into Safe Mode now....

9 pages later, I don't know if the OP is still listening, but:

(1) ClassicShell has become OpenShell. I use it, and it works. https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu/releases

(2) If you prefer Linux but have to use Windows for school to run specific applications, then just use a virtual machine. VirtualBox is free, although I found that getting usable 3D acceleration required VMWare Workstation Pro for like $100. (I doubt you need 3D acceleration, but I could be wrong.)

Depending on the application the school uses, and depending on whether that application requires internet access, you might be able to install a free, legacy, version of Windows that lacks security updates, like XP. If not, then fine, install Windows 10 in a VM. The rest of the time, use Linux.

Usacomp2k3 wrote:

Shouldn't those be embedded for that type setup? Or managed through a domain with group policy?

They're running a cloud-based sales and scheduling system and all they really need is a browser so they're running off-the-shelf W10 Home. If it wasn't for a Windows-only proprietary biometric app that's tied with their application in I'd have migrated them to Arch or an LTS branch of Mint or Ubuntu.

Chrispy_ wrote:

I had to use DDU last night for the first time since installing W10, and realised that I can't get to safe mode any more.

I frequently forget to turn off "Fast Startup" in the power options on new installs, which can occasionally cause issues trying to get into the BIOS or other startup weirdness.

Chrispy_ wrote:

\Except no, W10's safe mode "friendlier blue-screen" dialog list of boot up choices doesn't recognise my motherboard USB controller so there is no keyboard or mouse. No, this is not some exotic motherboard, it's a garden-variety, common-as-muck Intel H97 motherboard, and I've tried both the intel chipset ports and the 3rd-party controller ports. Wondering if this was some quirk of my otherwise ordinary H97 board, I tried to access Safe Mode on my Ivy Bridge system, a Z77 Asrock board. Yeah, same problem :\

ERM!!!! I thought the blue menu was UEFI based, which means that the motherboard/UEFI combo is the one that supplies the "drivers" for the mouse and keyboard to work. While I agree that the removal of the pre-boot menu is such a bummer, perhaps there are ways to resolve it? like a firmware update may enable support with other keyboards?? I'm just rambling at this point

At this point Windows 10 is the way forward in Microsoft's PC paradigm, whether anyone likes it or not. When it works, it's good, but when it doesn't, it's somewhere between a black box requiring an IT background to suss out its problems and a Jack Russell terrier's brain driving a robot with boundary issues. To its credit Windows 10's made me more diligent about making backups since it's got a documented history of periodically crapping itself. I could write a few thousand words about how Microsoft's priorities aren't in line with its users' needs, and about how badly it needs to separate its different markets in terms of software maintenance practices. But in the end the reasons for Windows 10's misbehavior aren't as important as the fact that it's just kinda hinky in aggregate.

Tl;dr - Fine for video games and everyday work, but I trust Ubuntu's stable releases a lot more for predictable stability these days. If you've got the option of using Linux on your workstation, don't hesitate.

Concupiscence wrote:

Tl;dr - Fine for video games and everyday work, but I trust Ubuntu's stable releases a lot more for predictable stability these days. If you've got the option of using Linux on your workstation, don't hesitate.

You know, I used to just sneer (as a linux user, even!) at this attitude -- just use linux! LOL yeah right, all sorts of stuff is continually broken in linux-landetc... Microsoft at least works.

But then, as you say, Microsoft has seriously dropped the ball as of late.

I mean, I experienced my Windows 10 computer just randomly de-activating itself a few months ago. Clean-install, straight Retail Win 10 Pro key. I paid $200 full-price for this, and it just decides one day that I'm -not- activated?

I really wish they'd get their act together.

I believe you can get to the recovery options without booting into the OS if you, get this:. Repeatedly power it off as soon as you see the Windows logo, then Windows will give you options to repair since the PC won't start. Why they removed F8 is beyond me.

A nice new feature they added to this month's cumulative update. Microsoft Edge randomly won't be able to get to sites by IP address, say your home router at 192.168.0.1. We've had numerous issues getting to printer GUIs and whatnot. Some websites won't load if they resolve to a private (local) IP as well.

@Glorious - Heck, I have a MBP at work, yet spend most of my time in a Linux VM. TBH this isn't really out of any particular dislike for MacOS; it is more because we develop for Linux, and so I can have a consistent experience between my work laptop and my home desktop (where I run Kubuntu).

Glorious wrote:

Concupiscence wrote:

Tl;dr - Fine for video games and everyday work, but I trust Ubuntu's stable releases a lot more for predictable stability these days. If you've got the option of using Linux on your workstation, don't hesitate.

You know, I used to just sneer (as a linux user, even!) at this attitude -- just use linux! LOL yeah right, all sorts of stuff is continually broken in linux-landetc... Microsoft at least works.

But then, as you say, Microsoft has seriously dropped the ball as of late.

I mean, I experienced my Windows 10 computer just randomly de-activating itself a few months ago. Clean-install, straight Retail Win 10 Pro key. I paid $200 full-price for this, and it just decides one day that I'm -not- activated?

I really wish they'd get their act together.

Yeah, I really do get it. Vanilla Ubuntu used to be bad about breaking things, and it's still wise to wait until the inevitable .1 release after stable's shipped to avoid teething issues. But at least once it's in the wild, the stable release doesn't get messed with that much: you're in for five years of support, the default software stack's not going to change, and Canonical's not going to break your workflow and reassociate your files with their default apps if you dare to patch your OS. Between predictability and the fact that updates install in a tiny fraction of the time and when you choose, it's so much less frustrating than Windows' deliberately imposed Death March of Progress. And that's before you even factor in breakage, or the stress of wondering how long it'll take the programs you use to get patches of their own after Windows' latest Spring or Fall update.

Yeah, in the last year or two, I can honestly say that the traditional roles have been inverted.

I'm shocked by this, personally. My prejudice (despite being a linux user who only has windows for windows-requiring things like Games) totally went the other way.

But that's been my experience and it seems the experience of many others.

The part that drives me nuts is just how hostile Windows has become to the user.

Shutting down your laptop because you're leaving the office for the day? Too bad! I'm going to spend 45 minutes at high CPU load installing updates. Have fun stuffing your 50w space heater into a bag/briefcase for your commute home.

Like using mspaint to view jpg files? Too bad! Here's the newest version of our fancy new photos app that has half the features of our old photo viewer app (and 10% of paint's features).

Don't want your start menu cluttered up with shovelware? Sure, just change this setting and we pinkie swear we won't add any more of those apps. Oh, you wanted that setting to survive an update? Too bad!

Have an app that won't work after updating to the newest feature release? No problem! Just roll back to the previous version and all is well. Oh, you wanted me to not immediately re-update after rolling back? Too bad!

SuperSpy wrote:

Shutting down your laptop because you're leaving the office for the day? Too bad! I'm going to spend 45 minutes at high CPU load installing updates. Have fun stuffing your 50w space heater into a bag/briefcase for your commute home.

Ugh, tell me about it.

Also, I hated how they implemented the Fast Startup "feature" without telling anyone. A few years ago, I got a new laptop and I couldn't understand why shutdown took so long.

When I'm using a laptop, a fast shutdown is usually more important than a fast startup. If I sit down to do work for an hour or two, it doesn't matter whether bootup takes 10 seconds or 60 seconds. But if I have to get up and leave, I need to leave NOW. I need shutdown to be as quick as possible.

So when I bought a new laptop a few years ago, I was very frustrated at how long shutdown took. There were times when I was almost late to class or a meeting because my laptop wouldn't shutdown soon enough. Eventually, I discovered the Fast Startup feature and disabled it, but it was very frustrating that Microsoft just assumed I wanted that new feature without asking me about it.

So, when's Win11 due?

It's also THE WORST on low-end systems. I was nursing along an old laptop - Sandy Bridge Core i3 around 1.5 GHz, 320 gig spinning HDD, 4 GB single-channel memory - and throwing Win10 onto it was so dull. I seriously spent three hours just trying to install patches and figuring out why some of those patches wouldn't install without my intervention. Can you imagine being given a secondhand laptop because you needed one for school and feeling like you're never done struggling with it?

It took 15 minutes to find Xubuntu, download the ISO, and thump it onto a flash drive, and another 10 to reboot the system and install Xubuntu. And I'd never describe the result as a thrilling experience, but it's perfectly usable and doesn't sit around grinding on swap.

meerkt wrote:

So, when's Win11 due?

This guy knows the right question to ask, but I don't know if there could be a satisfying answer to it!

whatsryancookin2002 wrote:

Just wait until you try to start your computer one morning and see nothing but a dark screen for minutes because Windows decided to upgrade itself in the night, and Microsoft thought it smart enough to just show you a blank screen - no visual indicators - while you wait for the updates to install

It takes seconds to disable the Windows Update service. Just turn it back on when you want to update.

I understand there is no option to do this in the Control Panel, but I don't think that should even be a consideration for the people here.

SuperSpy wrote:

Shutting down your laptop because you're leaving the office for the day? Too bad! I'm going to spend 45 minutes at high CPU load installing updates. Have fun stuffing your 50w space heater into a bag/briefcase for your commute home.

Ok, I do have to say that this is for the most part the fault of businesses and not with Microsoft: If your Windows PC is actually managed by a centralized IT department, most likely you'll get updates pushed to you in batches, and they will install silently, so you don't notice when Word loses its ability to save files, or you wonder why your CPU is at 90% utilization when all you have is just one.single.browser.tab.open. But then again, it's up to the companies to decide how they push updates to their workstations.

TheRazorsEdge wrote:

whatsryancookin2002 wrote:

Just wait until you try to start your computer one morning and see nothing but a dark screen for minutes because Windows decided to upgrade itself in the night, and Microsoft thought it smart enough to just show you a blank screen - no visual indicators - while you wait for the updates to install

It takes seconds to disable the Windows Update service. Just turn it back on when you want to update.

I understand there is no option to do this in the Control Panel, but I don't think that should even be a consideration for the people here.

Not only this (which understandably isn't necessarily an option for everyone), but I'm not really sure what this "blank screen for minutes" thing is? My computer never does that. If Windows updated itself, my computer is just booted up to the login screen.

If I do actually see the update screen, it gives me a percentage indicator and honest to goodness I can't remember the last time it lasted minutes.

qmacpoint wrote:

SuperSpy wrote:

Shutting down your laptop because you're leaving the office for the day? Too bad! I'm going to spend 45 minutes at high CPU load installing updates. Have fun stuffing your 50w space heater into a bag/briefcase for your commute home.

Ok, I do have to say that this is for the most part the fault of businesses and not with Microsoft: If your Windows PC is actually managed by a centralized IT department, most likely you'll get updates pushed to you in batches, and they will install silently, so you don't notice when Word loses its ability to save files, or you wonder why your CPU is at 90% utilization when all you have is just one.single.browser.tab.open. But then again, it's up to the companies to decide how they push updates to their workstations.

In my case it was a personal laptop running a non-domain retail install of Windows 10 Professional. It is absolutely the fault of Microsoft in intentionally changing Windows Update to be as aggressive as possible.

DancinJack wrote:

TheRazorsEdge wrote:

whatsryancookin2002 wrote:

Just wait until you try to start your computer one morning and see nothing but a dark screen for minutes because Windows decided to upgrade itself in the night, and Microsoft thought it smart enough to just show you a blank screen - no visual indicators - while you wait for the updates to install

It takes seconds to disable the Windows Update service. Just turn it back on when you want to update.

I understand there is no option to do this in the Control Panel, but I don't think that should even be a consideration for the people here.

Not only this (which understandably isn't necessarily an option for everyone), but I'm not really sure what this "blank screen for minutes" thing is? My computer never does that. If Windows updated itself, my computer is just booted up to the login screen.

If I do actually see the update screen, it gives me a percentage indicator and honest to goodness I can't remember the last time it lasted minutes.

Mine did it just the other day, when I swapped video cards and was waiting for the latest drivers to download. My dual screens just... went dark. No sign of life from either of them while I was using it. After a few minutes I started to hold down the power button, and Windows roared back to life frantically trying to shut down Steam, and in the process borked its own attempt to install months-old Nvidia drivers. Even after a clean install of the latest drivers I still had to use DDU to make OpenCL and Vulkan work properly again. Yay, Windows.

Actually now that I think about it I do have one thing I don't like.

I use loudness equalization to help me hear the dialogue when watching shows on netflix and hulu etc.
Every time there is a major update I'm sitting there thinking "wow I'm glad i have captions turned on because I definitely did not hear what was said" and then I realize it is turned off again because of the last update.

Concupiscence wrote:

Mine did it just the other day, when I swapped video cards and was waiting for the latest drivers to download. My dual screens just... went dark. No sign of life from either of them while I was using it. After a few minutes I started to hold down the power button, and Windows roared back to life frantically trying to shut down Steam, and in the process borked its own attempt to install months-old Nvidia drivers. Even after a clean install of the latest drivers I still had to use DDU to make OpenCL and Vulkan work properly again. Yay, Windows.

I don't have this issue with either intel or AMD graphics...

I do have an old fujitsu laptop with an HDD that takes forever to give me the progress screen compared to the other machines which all have SSD's. (30 seconds to a minute of the balls circling)

Aranarth wrote:

Concupiscence wrote:

Mine did it just the other day, when I swapped video cards and was waiting for the latest drivers to download. My dual screens just... went dark. No sign of life from either of them while I was using it. After a few minutes I started to hold down the power button, and Windows roared back to life frantically trying to shut down Steam, and in the process borked its own attempt to install months-old Nvidia drivers. Even after a clean install of the latest drivers I still had to use DDU to make OpenCL and Vulkan work properly again. Yay, Windows.

I don't have this issue with either intel or AMD graphics...

I do have an old fujitsu laptop with an HDD that takes forever to give me the progress screen compared to the other machines which all have SSD's. (30 seconds to a minute of the balls circling)

It was new to me, too. Maybe it's a problem that crept into the works within the last year.

Concupiscence wrote:

Mine did it just the other day, when I swapped video cards and was waiting for the latest drivers to download. My dual screens just... went dark. No sign of life from either of them while I was using it. After a few minutes I started to hold down the power button, and Windows roared back to life frantically trying to shut down Steam, and in the process borked its own attempt to install months-old Nvidia drivers. Even after a clean install of the latest drivers I still had to use DDU to make OpenCL and Vulkan work properly again. Yay, Windows.

You mean there were issues with Windows, dual video cards, AND dual screens? Colour me shocked! (since you mentioned it was a card swap, maybe you weren't using dual cards as your sig suggests, but I also haven't personally run into this issue with my single GTX 1080/Win 10 x64/ a single 1440p screen FWIW)

Joking aside, sure that is kinda annoying, but also not a huge deal IMO? It's definitely not great for the average user, but the average user isn't swapping video cards are installing new video drivers that often either.