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chuckula
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Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:54 pm

WE LIVE FOR THE CINEBENCH, WE DIE FOR THE CINEBENCH!
-- AMD fanboys, March 1 2017 - March 4, 2019

NOBODY CARES ABOUT RENDERING ON CPUS AND TR IS BIASED AGAINST AMD FOR USING CINEBENCH!!
-- AMD fanboys, March 5, 2019

So after languishing for years with a rendering engine that couldn't even take advantage of the execution hardware in a 2011 Sandy Bridge part, Maxxon has finally released Cinebench R20: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14053/ma ... -benchmark

This release finally brings Cinebench past the era of the Pentium 4's SSE instruction set and uses the open source Embree rendering engine (https://embree.github.io) to actually show off what modern CPU designs are capable of doing.

And yes, this includes AVX and maybe even AVX-512 there fanboys.
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:00 pm

AMD will implement their own benchmark called "Gluebench" in response. Spoiler alert: AMD specializes in gluing.
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chuckula
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:02 pm

Krogoth wrote:
AMD will implement their own benchmark called "Gluebench" in response. Spoiler alert: AMD specializes in gluing.



They'll make their own benchmark... With blackjack. And hookers!
In fact, forget the benchmark and the blackjack.
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:09 pm

Benches went out in the 90s. Let me know when they release Cine-Bucket-Seat.
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:11 pm

chuckula wrote:
NOBODY CARES ABOUT RENDERING ON CPUS AND TR IS BIASED AGAINST AMD FOR USING CINEBENCH!!
-- AMD fanboys, March 5, 2019

context please, I'm missing something here...
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:12 pm

oh thank god I needed some High-Test Chuckula to get me through the rest of this day.

OP delivers!
 
thecoldanddarkone
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:10 pm

intel xeon 1505mv6 (3.6 all core boost) 1941
Intel 7820x @ 4.6 4700
Intel 7740x @ 4.5 (stock) 2367

for those who care

Does it actually use avx? During the run it was still running at full speed. it didn't show an offset clock.
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synthtel2
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:48 pm

R7 1700 @ 4.0 / 8C8T - 3127
R7 1700 @ 4.0 / 8C16T - 3955

(I usually run SMT-less now because apparently Windows' scheduler is hot garbage, and went to 4.0 because everything's too janky and I don't even care anymore.)

Doesn't look AMD-unfriendly to me, given thecoldanddarkone's numbers for comparison.
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:54 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
(I usually run SMT-less now because apparently Windows' scheduler is hot garbage,

It's not just the fault of the scheduler; SMT is really hard to schedule for optimally. Blaming the scheduler when SMT performs poorly on certain workloads is, in a sense. blaming the messenger.
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anotherengineer
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:08 pm

HA

Called it.

Read the title. Guessed the author, guessed right.

No point reading this thread.
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Krogoth
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:13 pm

To be honest, it is a good thing for Cinebench to incorporate post-Sandy Bridge era instruction sets. IMO, I don't think it will change the game by much.
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:14 pm

just brew it! wrote:
synthtel2 wrote:
(I usually run SMT-less now because apparently Windows' scheduler is hot garbage,

It's not just the fault of the scheduler; SMT is really hard to schedule for optimally. Blaming the scheduler when SMT performs poorly on certain workloads is, in a sense. blaming the messenger.

It's nothing inherent to SMT, it's the thing where Windows wants to make my threads share cores even when there are plenty of actually free cores to go around. Doing better would literally be as simple as not assigning work to any even-numbered logical cores unless all odd-numbered logical cores are already in use. I can also blame Windows because I dual-boot and Windows very clearly has a problem with this that Linux doesn't.
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:20 pm

Krogoth wrote:
I don't think it will change the game by much.


Or it will, and the vocal minority can go bonkers over some other test while the rest of us ignore it until there's an independent review available.
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:24 pm

The windows scheduler has been logical processor aware since like windows xp.

And it does what you are asking already, at least according to microsoft:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... sor-groups

Are you sure this is what is going on?
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:26 pm

Just to point it out explicitly:

"For better performance, the operating system takes physical locality into account when assigning logical processors to groups. All of the logical processors in a core, and all of the cores in a physical processor, are assigned to the same group, if possible"

"By default, an application is constrained to a single group, which should provide ample processing capability for the typical application. The operating system initially assigns each process to a single group in a round-robin manner across the groups in the system."
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:29 pm

Well I guess it doesn't say threads (as the article is really geared towards addressing much more complex situations like NUMA) but it would be really weird if it was so completely boneheaded in the simpler scenarios...
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:36 pm

It may also depend on the performance profile you're using. Activating a 2nd logical core in a physical core that's already in a higher-power state is gonna use less additional energy than ramping up another physical core. Scheduler may be taking that into account.
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Glorious
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:43 pm

Yeah there is a whole list of articles there like that one that are related to this subject:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... scheduling

And even then it all seems to be performance geared, not efficiency.


All that just goes to show that they're -not- just being boneheads about this.
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:46 pm

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:03 pm

Ooh, new CPU bench - me like!

My first run is 8039
That's on a 7960x @ 4GHz with no AVX offset

The built-in score database shows a stock 1950x scoring 6670, so that sounds about right for a small clock advantage and some AVX usage.
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:04 pm

AFAICT, the scheduler's design isn't lacking, it's just buggy.

I ought to put together a proper test to repro it at some point anyway. I probably won't get around to it before the weekend, but if y'all are interested, I'll see if I can get it done this weekend.
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:38 pm

synthel2 wrote:
AFAICT, the scheduler's design isn't lacking, it's just buggy.


You have to realize that, inherently, that's a pretty audacious claim, right?

You are talking about a bone-simple scenario, and yet there are enterprise customers with monstrous NUMA machines and entire staffs that don't seem to have this sort of complaint.

Meanwhile, I've had a long history, just here alone, with people making bold claims about schedulers that... erm... didn't really turn out all that ...well?

---

Do you recognize what you are up against here? As we've alluded, yeah, schedulers are complex.

Wouldn't the first thought, then, perhaps just be that your "bug" is maybe a misconfiguration? Misapprehension?

synthel2 wrote:
I ought to put together a proper test to repro it at some point anyway. I probably won't get around to it before the weekend, but if y'all are interested, I'll see if I can get it done this weekend.


Please do.

I mean, Microsoft would be interested in it. I don't know if they have any sort of bug bounty program for non-vulnerability bugs, but they've been known to hand out hundreds of thousands.

You'd get mad propz, at the very least. Maybe a sweet job?
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:50 pm

Yeah, all of that is why I really ought to put together a proper test. I know at least one condition that behaves wrong on my machine and have got strong hints at a few more similar conditions, but confirming it (or failing to) on more machines and figuring out the bounds of the problem area would be worth a lot.

I think this can be my top priority this weekend, look for more on it then.
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:10 pm

There will always be corner cases which behave non-optimally.

As the link I posted above notes, it's certainly possible that there are more non-optimal cases in Windows 10 than there were in Windows 7. But that's not definitive either, it's a bunch of speculation on superuser.com.
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:26 pm

Amusingly (based on the thread title), or perhaps not, my Ryzen 5 2400G system is faster than the entry level 2017 MacBook Pro 15" with the Core i7-7700HQ. The AMD system scored 1740 and the MacBook rang in at 1685. I expected it to be kind of close but I figured the Mac would win. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:40 pm

just brew it! wrote:
There will always be corner cases which behave non-optimally.

This is far enough from being a corner case that it does actually mess with gaming a bit.
 
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:50 pm

R20 seems to scale better with increasing core counts then R15 did, so I think AMD fanboys can officially jump back aboard the Cinebench is the ultimate benchmark train as AMD is generally going to offer more cores at any given price point and an extra core or two seems to more then offset lower clockspeed/IPC.

So;
CINEBENCH IS THE BESTEST BENCHMARK IN THE HISTORY OF EVERYTHING, AND TR IS BIASED AGAINST AMD FOR USING BENCHMARKS NOT NAMED CINEBENCH.
-- AMD fanboys, March 5 (Evening), 2019
 
chuckula
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:19 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Amusingly (based on the thread title), or perhaps not, my Ryzen 5 2400G system is faster than the entry level 2017 MacBook Pro 15" with the Core i7-7700HQ. The AMD system scored 1740 and the MacBook rang in at 1685. I expected it to be kind of close but I figured the Mac would win. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Was that running Windows on the Mac?
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:02 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
HA

Called it.

Read the title. Guessed the author, guessed right.

No point reading this thread.

lol yet felt inclined to post this in this thread catapulting it back to the top of the front page. Nice!
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Re: Cinebench R20 is out. Officially banned from AMD demos

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:03 pm

chuckula wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
Amusingly (based on the thread title), or perhaps not, my Ryzen 5 2400G system is faster than the entry level 2017 MacBook Pro 15" with the Core i7-7700HQ. The AMD system scored 1740 and the MacBook rang in at 1685. I expected it to be kind of close but I figured the Mac would win. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Was that running Windows on the Mac?

No. I'd be VERY surprised if anyone got a 2400G running on macOS.
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