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This is exactly the sort of thing that gets the Open Source evangelist types riled up. I wonder if Linux distros will start ditching Firefox in their default installs for other browsers like Chromium. AFAIK all of the major distros already offer Chromium as an option in their repositories, so it would be trivial to implement.

Captain Ned wrote:

Welch wrote:

Thanks for this amazing find Captain. Id love to see TechReport do a follow up with the Firefox team to find out what gives. Making a deal with a new partner is whatever, force changing my search engine because of my locale allows you to get away with it??? That is just borderline malware level stuff.

I'd wait until 35.0.2 or whatever and changing the US locale field to "true" before claiming success.

Wait a minute. I've got my work lappy on Mozilla Sync and I did not get the update prompt while at work today. I should be able to test the US locale bit when I get in tomorrow AM. This is what I'll use:

Code: Select all

browser.search.defaultenginename        user set   string      Google
browser.search.defaultenginename.US     default    string      data:text/plain,browser.search.defaultenginename.US=Yahoo       (was Google)
browser.search.isUS                     default    string      true     (was false)
browser.search.order.1                  user set   string      Google
browser.search.order.2                  user set   string      Google
browser.search.order.US.1               default    string      data:text/plain,browser.search.order.US.1=Yahoo      (was Google)
browser.search.order.US.2               user set   string      data:text/plain,browser.search.order.US.2=Google

If the chaos in the office leaves me alone for a bit I should have results by 8:00AM EST. If this switches default to Yahoo I'll replace Yahoo in defaultenginename.US in another account on the lappy (what, you haven't used publicly available tools to grab root on your work lappy?) with Bing and see if Bing becomes default. if it does, it means that "browser.search.isUS" is the culprit.

EDIT: Here's the other bit. Changing defaults and search orders within Firefox does not change any field with "US" in it. This is why (to be tested) the Yahoo switch keeps happening. When I first changed things from within Firefox the non-"US" fields registered the change yet the "US" fields remained at defaults. To change "US" fields, one must use about:config.

EDIT2: Should I confirm all of this, I should write an add-on to do it all at once. Too bad my programming skills ended with BASIC back around 1981 or so.

+1, I'll be tuned in for your updates Captain.

just brew it! wrote:

This is exactly the sort of thing that gets the Open Source evangelist types riled up. I wonder if Linux distros will start ditching Firefox in their default installs for other browsers like Chromium. AFAIK all of the major distros already offer Chromium as an option in their repositories, so it would be trivial to implement.

The actual next step would be to see from where Firefox is getting its location data. To me, it's either IP-based or relies on the Regional/Language settings (or whatever the KDE/Gnome equivalents are).

EDIT: The other thing I can't yet grok is why "US" default fields have a data type while the non-"US" fields are simply the search engine name. Must be some deeper magic going on there, and my source code skills simply don't exist.

Mh. If Firefox really is changing the search back every 6 weeks or so, it really shows just how desperate they're getting.

I can only imagine what the private developer mailing lists look like on this. The turmoil that must be on them, some people up in arms, outraged and disgusted by the change. People arguing back and forth. Some people expressing their concern and doubts as to the integrity of the Mozilla project now and being disheartened by it all, saying that this wasn't the Mozilla they volunteered their time to support. I'd say the Mozilla bizdev/whatever they call it guys would be mailing to it trying to reason with people and convince it was necessary but who knows they're probably already past that and sick of trying, just wanting to get a drink and think of the better days. Ah those better days. Some may have already been insulted past the point of no return. It's probably not all happy.

If you think that the Mozilla people are just doing this with some big **** grin on their face or just complete and total nonchalance and indifference or some self-righteous sense of justice, you're probably wrong. They're probably upset and just straight up torn over it. The reality is, if Firefox is changing the search back, that Yahoo paid for exposure and they're going to want returns from it.

It's a shame. And peoples' response, if it is to switch, while good for them in the short term, probably won't end up being so.

Ultimately I don't care too much. Even if I had to switch my search engine back every update, I'd still do it because if that's all Firefox is bothering me with then that's still pretty good. And I still can support an independent and user-focused web platform. And on top of that, in my own experience, I've never had this happen to me.

Just applied the mini-update to 35.0.1 (it popped up not forced via "About") and the search engine stayed the same, no change.

Welch wrote:

Just applied the mini-update to 35.0.1 (it popped up not forced via "About") and the search engine stayed the same, no change.

What's the value for your about:config field "browser.search.isUS"?

I'll backtrack to a default 34.0.5 tomorrow with the lappy and see what happens (MozBackup, I love you). It could be that after 35 they took enough heat to modify things.

35->35.0.1 didn't change my search engine. I'd deleted all the other engines besides Startpage just after the 34->35 upgrade, though.

Well then. The work lappy is a Sync client (home box is host), so I foresee many FF removals/reinstalls tomorrow to work on this. Weather is supposed to be crappy anyway (though nothing like the New England coast) so why not.

Techs still use Google? I thought everyone was using duckduckgo?

The awesome thing about duckduckgo is when on occasion I do want to do a Google search, it's just a !gm or the like away.

Edit: I'm on firefox-31.4.0esr i.e. I have not encountered a default search engine change.

DrCR wrote:

Techs still use Google? I thought everyone was using duckduckgo?

First, this is not about Google, DDG, Bing, or anyone other than Yahoo and Mozilla. What I'll spend the next day or two trying to figure out is if something in FF 34 tried to lock US Firefox users (and how Mozilla determines "US" is part of this) into Yahoo as the default search engine and, if they had changed defaults within FF34, found those defaults changed when and if they moved to FF35.

This isn't about the relative quality of search engines. This is about Mozilla entering into an agreement with Yahoo to plug Yahoo as the primary Mozilla search engine to US users, how Mozilla enforces this, and just how far one must fiddle with the interior bits of Mozilla to block this behavior. I only use Google in my arguments because I'm an old fart who finally migrated to Google after AltaVista finally packed it in. I think I last used Yahoo circa 1997 on an old Earthlink dial-up account.

Bah. Story of my life. Find the problem 10 minutes after it's fixed.

Whatever Mozilla baked into 35.0.1, it no longer automagically changes default search settings set from within FF. This tempest will no longer threaten to overrun its teapot. Deleted profile, uninstalled FF. Installed FF 34.0.5. Rebooted. Verified that all search settings were default (Yahoo as search engine, "US"=yes as location). Changed FF default search to Google from the search box. Rebooted. Verified FF still had Google as default. Upgraded to 35.0.1 via Help > About. Rebooted. Google still default and shows as user set field in about:config.

The only bit I have left here us that the "isUS" field shows as user set, so the question of from where FF grabs this data is still an open question. Since it no longer seems to act to force Yahoo on US users, I won't spend any more time on this until/unless someone throws me a bone I can chase into another rathole.