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Captain Ned
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Ichiro

Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:57 pm

He's now tied Pete Rose in hits, if you include his Japanese record. Japan plays some good baseball so I have no issue adding stats from the two major leagues (plus, Sadaharu Oh would own the home run record instead of Roid Bonds).

Any thoughts?
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Ichiro

Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:08 pm

I don't think I can put NPB on par with MLB. I want to, though—mostly because Pete Rose is having a coronary in public over it—but the level of talent in the whole of MLB is higher than that of any other national league. You can see a clear difference in various rates when you look at his JPPL numbers vs. even his first couple years in Seattle. Less OBP, less power.

He belongs in the HoF, though, as an all-time great hitter. I think if he'd been in MLB the whole time, he'd have passed Rose years ago. They don't play as many games in Japan each year as they do in the US. Such is the life of a counting stat like total hits, though.
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Re: Ichiro

Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:19 pm

Ichiro HOF is a done deal, as he'll clearly reach 3,000 hits this year and led MLB in hits seven times.
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Re: Ichiro

Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:53 am

Captain Ned wrote:
He's now tied Pete Rose in hits, if you include his Japanese record.

I do include his Japanese record, with no less reverence than anyone's US record. I base that opinion on how well various Japanese pitchers have done in MLB. While the Yankees generally buy too old, washed-up, players for more than they were worth in their prime (e.g., A-Fraud), I fully applauded them having picked up Ichiro, but was disappointed when they let him go to the Marlins. I've never worn a player's jersey, but I think it's time to get an Ichiro Marlin's jersey (and maybe a Jeter jersey while I'm shopping).
 
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Re: Ichiro

Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:05 pm

My Facebook status the other day wrote:
In my world, if you want to discuss greatest hitters of all time, ichiro has to be mentioned or the conversation is pointless


As for the Japan vs MLB record, I think that MLB is a better league, for sure. Its still a professional league though. Pete Rose is the MLB hit king. However, Ichiro Suzuki is a better player that Pete Rose ever was. He's a better hitter, he's a better baserunner, he's a MUCH better defensive player. Every aspect of the game, Ichiro is better than Rose.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Ichiro

Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:52 pm

Pretty soon we're gonna celebrate a guy who got 3,000 MLB hits after the age of 27. That's frickin sweet.
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Re: Ichiro

Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:36 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ichiro-fin ... 45491.html

Good for Ichiro. And once again, Pete Rose can go eat a rock
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Re: Ichiro

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:59 am

Pretty stoked that he finally made it. That's a big deal.

Next up is probably Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera. Ten years ago those two were doing battle for best hitter on the planet. Albert isn't nearly the player he once was, but he's closest with over 2700 hits. Cabrera seems likely with over 2500 hits and a lower age, plus he's still raking.
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Re: Ichiro

Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:23 pm

Ichiro is a great player and I am happy he made it to 3,000 because it is a number that fits his talent and impact on the game.

His Japanese stats are impressive by them self and add to his legend but they are separate and should always be looked at in that way.

Pete Rose was a great player and you would hope that he would show more class but that's Pete Rose.

With different eras, different circumstances and going about the game in a really different manner, there is no comparison. I think Pete Rose should be back in the hall of fame but I wouldn't mind a little time when Ichiro is in and Pete is not.
 
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Re: Ichiro

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:25 pm

Frugal wrote:
I think Pete Rose should be back in the hall of fame but I wouldn't mind a little time when Ichiro is in and Pete is not.


Pete Rose was given a lifetime ban, and that ban was upheld. Let him die, then he can get in. Nothing wrong with a posthumous induction, maybe his kid (who I met a few times and is a much better human being than the old man) can accept on his behalf.

Cabrera might get 3000, I don't think Pujols will.
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Re: Ichiro

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:15 am

idchafee wrote:
Cabrera might get 3000, I don't think Pujols will.

Unless the constant losing gets to Albert, I think he'll hang on 2 more years. He's got 226 hits (according to Baseball Reference) and 19 HR to go to 3,000 and 600. I don't expect him to finish all 5 years on his contract, but I think 2 more is reasonable.

Cabrera has 540 hits. I'm guessing that by the end of 2019 (3 full seasons and another 50-some games) he'll make it. It's like 160 hits per season so I could be pushing it. He could very well have 500 HR by then too.

Both have injury histories and known lingering issues, so maybe not, but baseball fandom is the one arena where I get to be optimistic every year. I choose to be optimistic on both these guys. :D
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Re: Ichiro

Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:49 pm

idchafee wrote:
Frugal wrote:
I think Pete Rose should be back in the hall of fame but I wouldn't mind a little time when Ichiro is in and Pete is not.


Pete Rose was given a lifetime ban, and that ban was upheld. Let him die, then he can get in. Nothing wrong with a posthumous induction, maybe his kid (who I met a few times and is a much better human being than the old man) can accept on his behalf.

Cabrera might get 3000, I don't think Pujols will.

I understand but he has a ban that none of the steroid cheaters got and while he did gamble, he didn't cheat as far as I can tell.

I think the ban should be commuted before he dies but Pete should have to clean up his act and show contrition before they let him in.

Unfortunately I think he gets more notoriety being banned than being in so I doubt he has much motivation to change.

Back to Ichiro, his record and Rose's record are both great but they are not equivalent. Whose is better is debatable but unimportant. They are both Hall of Fame worthy minus Pete's ban. People are going to compare the two but Ichiro's record stands very well by itself, that is why this debate is so weird, there is no reason for it.
 
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Re: Ichiro

Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:28 am

Frugal wrote:
I understand but he has a ban that none of the steroid cheaters got and while he did gamble, he didn't cheat as far as I can tell.


Whether he cheated or not is irrelevant. When you start playing professional baseball, the ONE THING they pound into you is "don't bet on baseball." And they have been doing that since 1919. Don't bet on baseball. That's it. Beat your wife? FIne. Drink and drive? No problem. Just don't gamble on baseball. If you do, you'll get the Shoeless Joe Jackson treatment. Rose knew that, and he did it anyway. Sorry Pete, you stay home. Be an example for the next meat head idiot that thinks he's better than everyone else.

For all their crappiness, the steroid guys didn't break the rules in force at the time of their steroid use. There was no testing regime, and for a large part of that era, most PED's weren't even against the rules. Surely, they didn't get "don't juice" beat into their heads the way Pete Rose got "don't bet" beat into his. So if I'm going to come down on one side or the other, mark me with the juicers.
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