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JustAnEngineer wrote:

$102 ASRock Z170M Extreme4


TR's System Guide does not appear to have fully recovered from Cyril's departure a year ago.

Just pulled the trigger! Thanks for the head's up on this motherboard, I got it!

Motherboard
Memory
Processor
$353.96 after shipping!!!!

Not bad. But you may want to consider getting another 16GB of memory. It's cheap.

whm1974 wrote:

Consider getting another 16 GiB of memory. It's cheap.

DDR4 memory is going to continue to get cheaper and faster in the next year. If 2x8 GiB of PC4-19200 meets his needs and his budget, there's no need to spend more now. Had he wanted more memory, I would have suggested 2x16 GiB as a better choice than 4x8 GiB.
$150 2x16 GiB PC4-25600 G.Skill F4-3200C16D-32GVK (DDR4-3200, 16-18-18-38, 1.35 V)
or $130 2x16 GiB PC4-19200 Corsair CMK32GX4M2A2400C14R (DDR4-2400, 14-16-16-31, 1.2 V)

Unfortunately the WAF (Wife Approval Factor) was pretty low spending $360 on a computer that "still works just fine" hehe. But I will certainly keep that in mind. I do intend (within the next few months) to quietly slip another 16GB in there. A $60 expenditure is easier to go through the buy then ask for forgiveness later process than $130. I am curious as to why 2x 16 would have been better than 4x8. I thought the mo channels the mo betta. Or is that just for future upgradeability?

Thanks to all for helping me.

Shinare wrote:

Unfortunately the WAF (Wife Approval Factor) was pretty low spending $360 on a computer that "still works just fine" hehe. But I will certainly keep that in mind. I do intend (within the next few months) to quietly slip another 16GB in there. A $60 expenditure is easier to go through the buy then ask for forgiveness later process than $130. I am curious as to why 2x 16 would have been better than 4x8. I thought the mo channels the mo betta. Or is that just for future upgradeability?

Thanks to all for helping me.

Slots != channels. The number of memory channels depends on the memory controller (now on the CPU). For regular i* processors, that number is 2 (dual channel).

Another issue is that usually when more sticks are plugged in, the electrical load to the motherboard circuits and traces increases because you may find yourself needing to relax the timings and/or increase the voltage a bit in order to get a stable system. Relaxing timings will decrease speed of the memory subsystem, but is usually not noticeable unless you benchmark/stopwatch.

These are the usual arguments.

I know that slots != channels, but I was under the impression that 2 slots = 1 channel, so if you were running 2x16GB you would be running on a single channel, and if you run 4x8GB you would be running on two channels.

I think what you are saying is that two sticks each run in a single channel, and in a 4 stick configuration, a stick is added to each channel? (which is contrary to what I (mis)understood to be the case)

The 4 slots are grouped into dual channel pairs. So you'd want to have at least 2 DIMMS. Having all 4 slots filled is no better than having only 2 slots filled. See your motherboard's manual for which slots are paired. Typically in Intel chipsets the 1&3 slots are dual channel pairs and the 2&4 slots are dual channel pairs. It's been a while since I've done an AMD build, but IIRC, those were 1&2 paired and 3&4 paired.

Getting 2x8GB now gives you the ability to add another 2 sticks later while keeping your original ones. Once you've filled all 4 slots, you lose the ability to add further unless you start removing/swapping out existing sticks which obviously isn't cost-effective unless you can find a use for the lower density sticks you had to remove.

I don't think >16GB RAM is necessary at this point unless you're outside the norm in your usage. DDR4 is here to stay, so no need to upgrade prematurely. You can add a 2x8GB or 2x16GB kit a few years down the road and be plenty good I'd bet.

Crazy that you can get 16GB DDR4 these days for the same price as I got an 8GB kit this past Black Friday 2015. 6 months ago...

Status: SHIPPED!!!

(counting down the days now)

DPete27 wrote:

...

I don't think >16GB RAM is necessary at this point unless you're outside the norm in your usage. DDR4 is here to stay, so no need to upgrade prematurely. You can add a 2x8GB or 2x16GB kit a few years down the road and be plenty good I'd bet.
...

Ahh, I will probably wait a few months then and get this m.2 pcie 256GB SSD than as I think this will do loads to make it snappier.

Flying Fox wrote:

Shinare wrote:

Unfortunately the WAF (Wife Approval Factor) was pretty low spending $360 on a computer that "still works just fine" hehe. But I will certainly keep that in mind. I do intend (within the next few months) to quietly slip another 16GB in there. A $60 expenditure is easier to go through the buy then ask for forgiveness later process than $130. I am curious as to why 2x 16 would have been better than 4x8. I thought the mo channels the mo betta. Or is that just for future upgradeability?

Thanks to all for helping me.

Slots != channels. The number of memory channels depends on the memory controller (now on the CPU). For regular i* processors, that number is 2 (dual channel).

Another issue is that usually when more sticks are plugged in, the electrical load to the motherboard circuits and traces increases because you may find yourself needing to relax the timings and/or increase the voltage a bit in order to get a stable system. Relaxing timings will decrease speed of the memory subsystem, but is usually not noticeable unless you benchmark/stopwatch.

These are the usual arguments.

Is this an issue when overclocking the CPU, or just RAM, or what? I don't overclock these days, but I don't hesitate to fill all the slots (and save for a Gigabyte board that was a piece of junk, it's never been an issue). Usually starting with 2 sticks, and inevitably adding another 2 later on when I feel the need.

Shinare wrote:

Status: SHIPPED!!! (counting down the days now)

After you have removed the old motherboard from your case, clean up all of the accumulated dust and grime, swap out the I/O shield plate, then carefully look at the positions of the motherboard standoffs as you install the new motherboard. Nearly all ATX cases that I've encountered will also accept micro-ATX motherboards, but you should always double-check standoff locations when swapping motherboards. You don't want to have a misplaced standoff grounding out the bottom of your motherboard to the case.

localhostrulez wrote:

Is this an issue when overclocking the CPU, or just RAM

From what I understand, either or both, but running the CPU/RAM at/near their stock values* shouldn't be a problem even if you have all RAM slots filled. Since Shinare bought a non-K processor and DDR4-2400 RAM, 4 sticks at their XMP spec shouldn't be an issue.

*Intel specs DDR4-2133 as the max data rate for RAM on Skylake. YMMV if you're trying to push a DDR4-3600 to 4000MHz kit(s). In those situations, you're certainly better off with only 2 sticks installed**.
Similarly, once you get out of the realm of stock voltage CPU overclocks, RAM timings/voltage adjustments may need to be applied to maintain stability (as a general rule of thumb).

**Overclocking is a bit of hit-and-miss, give-and-take experiment. Even IF you've only got 2 sticks of RAM doesn't mean you're going to automatically be able to OC further than the other guy with 4 sticks. The OC-ability of all components involved (CPU, RAM, and mobo) effects your max/stable OC. Going with only 2 sticks of RAM can certainly help your chances of a higher OC, but if your specific CPU's memory controller wasn't the weakest link to begin with, then...

JustAnEngineer wrote:

Shinare wrote:

Status: SHIPPED!!! (counting down the days now)

After you have removed the old motherboard from your case, clean up all of the accumulated dust and grime, swap out the I/O shield plate, then carefully look at the positions of the motherboard standoffs as you install the new motherboard. Nearly all ATX cases that I've encountered will also accept micro-ATX motherboards, but you should always double-check standoff locations when swapping motherboards. You don't want to have a misplaced standoff grounding out the bottom of your motherboard to the case.

Thanks for that suggestion. Its not my first rodeo, but always glad for reminders.

Some boards are still picky about the slots you fill, this Asus Z97 doesn't want to POST if I stick the DDR3 sticks in slots 0-2 but if I move the sticks to slots 1-3 it then does POST when running the RAM with an overclock from 1866 MHz (9-9-9-27) to 2133 (9-10-10-29), and 2200 MHz at default voltage requires the timings to be more relaxed (11-12-10-33.)
Edit: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 BLT2KIT8G3D1869DT1TX0

biffzinker wrote:

Some boards are still picky about the slots you fill, this Asus Z97 doesn't want to POST if I stick the DDR3 sticks in slots 0-2 but if I move the sticks to slots 1-3 it then does POST when running the RAM with an overclock from 1866 MHz (9-9-9-27) to 2133 (9-10-10-29), and 2200 MHz at default voltage requires the timings to be more relaxed (11-12-10-33.)

Well, since the manual says that 1 DIMM goes in Slot 1, 2 DIMMS go in Slots 1 & 3, and Slots 0-2 only get used in 4 DIMM configs I'd say the board isn't being picky, but just working as designed.

Read the manual? I'll admit I didn't bother looking at the manual.

biffzinker wrote:

Read the manual? I'll admit I didn't bother looking at the manual.

Always RTFM.

biffzinker wrote:

Some boards are still picky about the slots you fill, this Asus Z97 doesn't want to POST if I stick the DDR3 sticks in slots 0-2 but if I move the sticks to slots 1-3 it then does POST when running the RAM with an overclock from 1866 MHz (9-9-9-27) to 2133 (9-10-10-29), and 2200 MHz at default voltage requires the timings to be more relaxed (11-12-10-33.)
Edit: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 BLT2KIT8G3D1869DT1TX0

You sure there isn't something wrong with the board? I had a Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3, and as I recall, you're supposed to fill slots 0 and 2 first for dual channel, then 1 and 3. I remember having to put RAM in slots 0 and 1 instead (single channel), else it wouldn't boot. I later opted to upgrade the RAM (filling all slots), and hit issues. Turned out that there was a bent CPU socket pin or two that just happened to hit certain memory controller pins (the memory controller's up in there).

Most machines I've seen (running stock) don't see to care where you stick the RAM, fwiw, except for the usual single-channel/dual-channel.

I checked the manual for my board this is what it shows.

Whereas my Z97-A manual doesn't allow 1 or 2 DIMM configs in 0 & 2. Must run to subtype of the Asus Z97-A. Odd.

Just wanted to let you all know that I got my parts in yesterday, ripped out the old and in with the new. Did a fresh install of Windows 10 and its working wonderfully! Thanks so much to all for your help in getting the right parts at the right price.

PS> In regard to memory configuration on this motherboard they want you to use A2 and B2 first then A1 and B1 second as labeled on the motherboard (four slots labeled A1-A2-B1-B2 as you move away from the processor socket). Seems contrary to logic, why not just label them in the order you want them populated. LOL

Oh I forgot to mention... On a side note, this new motherboard had an 8 pin "ATX" power socket on it (the power socket next to the CPU, not the main huge one) where as my PSU had a 4 pin ATX power plug. FORTUNATELY for me I had a new, never been opened, 500W 80plus PSU sitting on my floor I purchased like a year ago but turned out not to need. It DID have the necessary motherboard power plugs and I was very lucky.

I realize that someone earlier in this thread suggested that I purchase a new PSU as well but I said mine wasn't that old... as it turns out I really did need a new one. hehe

So in retrospect, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A PSU WITH ALL THE PROPER PLUGS FOR YOUR NEW MOTHERBOARD!!! (or it could be a huge "gotcha")

If your PSU didn't have an 8-pin CPU power, it was probably old enough to be due for a replacement.

DPete27 wrote:

If your PSU didn't have an 8-pin CPU power, it was probably old enough to be due for a replacement.

I would say that it was "probably" only a few years old.

One thing that I was debating to do was also suggested in this thread, which was remove everything from the case and blow out the dust. There was SOOOOOO much dust in there, caked up in so many places. Not to mention the dust on all the case fans.

Here's the thing though: I was so excited to get everything in and working again that I DIDN'T do a proper job of cleaning it out. lol... I just made sure the motherboard area was clean. and now thats all I am thinking about... is all that... dust... all of it... caked up... ALL OF IT.... all over the inside front of the case and on the fans...

I'm probably going to have to remove everything and clean it out. it was a ridiculous amount of dust. and it was idiotic that I didn't blow it out when I had almost everything out (just lacked the SSD and DVDROM drives) and I'm totally regretting it. I was just so excited, and I also feared that blowing on the fans would cause them to become noisy (which has happened to me on more than one occasion with older fans).

Anyway, just thought I would share my mistakes along with the success. heh

As a Rule of Thumb, it is a good idea to replace the PSU if it is more then a few years ago when you do a new build. They do age with use.

PS> My case is an old thermaltake tsunami like the following photo indicating where the dust is caked up like mad. (except my case is piano black)

When you blow the dust off fans, hold the blades with a finger to prevent them from spinning. Aside from that, I suppose you could get some fan noise from blowing air in the opposite direction of the airflow which could force dust particles up into the motor hub. I don't think I've ever had problems with that though.

Many newer cases have removable dust/fan filters. Nice feature.

Odd front panel design on your case, no surprise that the dust would collect between the two fan grilles. Not sure why they thought they needed two grilles. That front panel looks similar to the Cooler Master Wave Master case I had back in the day. It was nice, all aluminum, but those 80mm fans...ugh.