Personal computing discussed

Moderators: renee, JustAnEngineer

 
DLHM
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:23 pm
Location: Florida

New PC Build

Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:33 am

I am building a new system and need some opinions and comments on components. This will need to be a supreme desktop user experience(Windows 10). No gaming of any kind will be done on this machine, just desktop and web apps, possibly some very minor video editing(clipping / appending). Mirrored storage is a requirement. Only one monitor will be used(I already have a monitor.). The budget is ~$2000.

(Spending $1300 on mirroring these SSD's makes me cringe a bit, but the end user wants SSD's and requires mirroring.)

Thanks
-DLHM

Intel Core i5-4690K Devil's Canyon Quad-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 1150 88W
$239
ASUS Z97-PRO GAMER LGA 1150 Intel Z97
$144
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
90.99
SAMSUNG 850 EVO 2.5" 2TB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$657.45 x 2  = $1314.90
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
 
frumper15
Gerbil XP
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: New PC Build

Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:12 am

With a $2k budget I wouldn't do anything less than an i7-6700K and a Z170 board.  I also wouldn't spend over half of the budget on SSDs - Would not 2x 512GB ssds meet the need of any desktop computing with an additional media storage drive in the 3-4TB range?  That would allow for not only redundancy but also regular backups to another disk - RAID1 is not backup.  

I would probably also go with 32GB of DDR4 at this point in the game with that budget.  
i7-8086K | Z370 AORUS GAMING WIFI | 32GB DDR4-2400 | EVGA GTX 1080 Ti | 512GB 960 Pro | 27" Dell 2560x1440 Gsync | Fractal R6 | Seasonic Focus Plus 850W | Win10 Pro x64.
 
DPete27
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3776
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: New PC Build

Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:23 am

1) Is there a reason you're not going with the newest generation of CPUs, Intel Skylake LGA 1151?

2) Is there a reason why the machine needs a full ATX mobo that costs $145?  Motherboards don't differ in performance, only features/connectivity.  Perhaps the AsRock Z170M Pro4S for $75 has all the required features/peripherals?  Many/most LGA1151 boards take DDR4 RAM.

3) Is 2TB of solid state storage really needed, or could you do a 500GB M.2 SSD for $170 for OS and programs accompanied by a couple 2TB mechanical hdds for $65 each (with promo code) in Raid1 for data?

4) I'd echo the use of 2x16GB DDR4 RAM in a budget this size.

5) In this situation, the hardware requirements don't seem to require a $2000 budget.  Either don't spend the full amount, or give the client the option to get fancier things like a nice case, or something else they'll actually see.  Maybe build them a cool compact mITX system!!  Small is sexy.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
Chrispy_
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4670
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Europe, most frequently London.

Re: New PC Build

Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:38 am

Find out what the customer wants mirroring for.

Mirroring is very much a mechanical drive array thing to combat the 3-5% mechanical failure rates. Most SSD's have some kind of RAID-5/6 parity and ECC internally, so the only thing that will kill an SSD outright is a controller failure. For mirroring to work well with SSDs you are going to want to use identical SSDs, which then brings on the issue of what will cause an SSD to fail. In a desktop PC, the failure of a controller is likely to be:

1. host activity + firmware bug causes a bricks controller.
2. bad firmware update bricks controller.
3. power surge or electrical shock bricks controller.
4. controller or solid electronics component randomly dies for no reason.

1, 2, and 3 will take out a both members of a RAID1 array simultaneously, and 4 is far less likely to happen with SSD's since the mechanical 3-5% failure was usually mechanical wear and tear, not applicable to an SSD with no moving parts. SSD's do still fail at 1-3% but the mode of failure is usually 1, 2 or 3 - meaning there's a huge chance that mirroring his drives will not help in any way at all.

If he wants on-the-fly redundancy for his OS drive, then it has to be mirrored with the motherboard chipset (generally a bad idea with limited rebuild/recovery options) or with a dedicated RAID controller that has a pre-boot BIOS. It'll work but offer very few benefits whilst carrying several headaches and drawbacks.

A better solution is snapshotting from primary drive to a redundant secondary drive, either using free utilities or any of the affordable backup tools. 
As always, remember the golden rule: RAID IS NOT BACKUP.
Congratulations, you've noticed that this year's signature is based on outdated internet memes; CLICK HERE NOW to experience this unforgettable phenomenon. This sentence is just filler and as irrelevant as my signature.
 
DPete27
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3776
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: New PC Build

Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:52 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
As always, remember the golden rule: RAID IS NOT BACKUP.

Definitely this^  For that reason, I fail to see the point of RAID for consumer machines.
Also on the snapshot comment:  The redundant backup drive doesn't need to be an SSD.  In fact, I'd recommend a mechanical hdd for that because its cheaper and you don't need the response times of an SSD for backup purposes.  But also because mechanical hdds are better for storing data for long periods of time, especially if unpowered where SSDs can suffer from voltage drift.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
DLHM
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:23 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New PC Build

Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:52 pm

DPete27 wrote:
1) Is there a reason you're not going with the newest generation of CPUs, Intel Skylake LGA 1151?

2) Is there a reason why the machine needs a full ATX mobo that costs $145?  Motherboards don't differ in performance, only features/connectivity.  Perhaps the AsRock Z170M Pro4S for $75 has all the required features/peripherals?  Many/most LGA1151 boards take DDR4 RAM.

3) Is 2TB of solid state storage really needed, or could you do a 500GB M.2 SSD for $170 for OS and programs accompanied by a couple 2TB mechanical hdds for $65 each (with promo code) in Raid1 for data?

4) I'd echo the use of 2x16GB DDR4 RAM in a budget this size.

5) In this situation, the hardware requirements don't seem to require a $2000 budget.  Either don't spend the full amount, or give the client the option to get fancier things like a nice case, or something else they'll actually see.  Maybe build them a cool compact mITX system!!  Small is sexy.

Thanks All. This is what I was looking for,although I'll probably choose a different brand MB. I have had so much bad luck with ASRock that I just can't buy that brand again. No2 is kinda what I was wanting to suggest, I definitely will now that my thoughts have been 2nd'd.

Mirroring was for minimal down time in case of drive failure, backups are done to external USB Drives. This PC will be in an climate controlled closet, so aesthetics are not problem. I will bump the RAM to 32GB, I don't know what I was thinking.

btw. I mostly just code firmware and electronics .. Hardware is outside my general purview these days which is why I greatly appreciate answers from those still down in it.
 
Thanks again
-DLHM
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
 
JustAnEngineer
Gerbil God
Posts: 19673
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: New PC Build

Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:49 pm

$2K seems like overkill for this application.

$325 Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0/4.2 GHz hyper-threaded quad-core LGA1151 processor
$26½ Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo cooler
$170 2x16 GiB PC4-24000 Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK32GX4M2B3000C15 (DDR4-3000, 15-17-17-35, 1.35V) memory
$130 Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 micro-ATX LGA1151 motherboard
$110 Radeon RX-460 4GB graphics card
or $0 Intel HD Graphics 530 integrated graphics
$170 1x 0.512 TB Intel 600p PCIe+NVMe M.2 SSD
or $240 2x 0.525 TB Crucial MX300 SATA+ACPI 2½" SSD
$50 LG Blu-ray burner
$120 -15MIR SeaSonic SS-660XP2 80+platinum ATX power supply
$100 Silverstone TJ08-E micro-ATX case
$37 Logitech G402 mouse
$76 Cooler Master CM Storm QuickFire TK keyboard
$36½ Cheap 2.1-channel speakers
$91 Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit Home OEM
=====
$1442, delivered
· R7-5800X, Liquid Freezer II 280, RoG Strix X570-E, 64GiB PC4-28800, Suprim Liquid RTX4090, 2TB SX8200Pro +4TB S860 +NAS, Define 7 Compact, Super Flower SF-1000F14TP, S3220DGF +32UD99, FC900R OE, DeathAdder2
 
Chrispy_
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4670
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Europe, most frequently London.

Re: New PC Build

Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:52 am

Given the usage case you've described, JAE's recommendations for the base hardware look sound, though I'd probably opt for 1x 1TB SSD instead of 2x 500GB SSD.

The real place to invest here is in a fantastic monitor and quality speakers. I know you said you already have a monitor but a non-gaming 3440x1440 IPS ultrawide is about $600 and will give you THE best productivity environment. Any of the studio monitors in Bruno's recent TR peripherals picks are recommended if video editing is on the cards. The "cheap" Eris E4.5 at $200 are probably the sweet spot in terms of bang-for-buck. Once room correction is added in, it would take the most snobbish audiophile to complain about the sound quality.

JAE's build, a monitor and some quality speakers will not amount to much over $2000 and the monitor and speakers should outlast this PC and the next one.
Congratulations, you've noticed that this year's signature is based on outdated internet memes; CLICK HERE NOW to experience this unforgettable phenomenon. This sentence is just filler and as irrelevant as my signature.
 
PFarkas
Gerbil
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 7:41 pm

Re: New PC Build

Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:24 am

DLHM wrote:
Mirroring was for minimal down time in case of drive failure, 

To minimize downtime, at initial build, install the OS to a second drive as well as the SSD so that both are bootable.  The second drive need not be anything fancy - a $40 HGST 1tb NAS drive would be fine.  Once the apps and user environment are configured to the user's satisfaction, boot from the second drive, create and store an image of the SSD on the second drive and put links to the imaging software on the desktop.  Disconnect the second drive because air gap.  Reconnect this drive, boot from it, and create new images periodically or after significant changes to the software configuration occurs.

In the event of drive failure, your time to recover is the time needed to source and install a replacement SSD, boot from the second drive and restore the most recent image, and restore whatever had been backed up to USB.

Using 2.5" hot-swap cages ($40) and a 2.5" secondary drive makes the process even easier.
 
DPete27
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3776
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: New PC Build

Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:39 am

@PFarkas: Wow, that sounds incredibly complicated and a major hassle to upkeep.  Perhaps it would be more efficient to simply get your programs set up, then create a disk image that you could use as a restore in the event a failure occurs.  External backups of data should always be done regardless, and you can store the disk image on the external backup.

Dual drive systems may be a little more hassle to get shortcut targets reassigned initially, but I find that having all your data on a separate drive is nice if your OS drive fails or if you want to replace/upgrade it.  Since the majority of GBs is still in tact on the data drive, all you have to do is re-image the OS+Programs drive and you're back up in running in a few hours.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
PFarkas
Gerbil
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 7:41 pm

Re: New PC Build

Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:06 am

DPete27 wrote:
it would be more efficient to simply get your programs set up, then create a disk image that you could use as a restore in the event a failure occurs.  

This sounds like what I suggested with the exception that you do not define where the backup image will be kept or how it will be restored.

A separate physical drive dedicated to the purpose of restoring your production image and kept disconnected until it is needed or to update the image is the most robust way to achieve this. A $40 hot swap cage trivializes the process of keeping a recovery drive air gapped and replacing the failed SSD. $100 spent on a cage and a recovery drive provides much more reliable fault tolerance than mirroring SSDs and does this for much less money (5% of the $2000 budget).

Bonus: In the event of malware, you have a clean environment to boot into to facilitate removal and recovery.

DPete27 wrote:
Dual drive systems may be a little more hassle to get shortcut targets reassigned initially, but I find that having all your data on a separate drive is nice if your OS drive fails or if you want to replace/upgrade it.  Since the majority of GBs is still in tact on the data drive, all you have to do is re-image the OS+Programs drive and you're back up in running in a few hours.


I feel like you just repeated most of what I said.

Where is the complicated part?
 
Chrispy_
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4670
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Europe, most frequently London.

Re: New PC Build

Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:03 am

Y'all overcomplicating it. Have a spare SSD on standby and just use Macrium to volume snapshot every night. I think even the free version does this. 

Downtime in case of primary disk failure? Boot to PE from USB stick and restore the latest snapshot to the spare SSD, then go into your BIOS and tell your PC to boot from the spare SSD instead of the failed one. You're looking at around 5GB/min so a typical 100GB windows and apps install will be recovered in about half an hour. That's a WORST CASE scenario. You could easily waste half an hour messing about with RAID BIOSes or fiddling with array rebuilds in the case of a mirrored drive failure.
Congratulations, you've noticed that this year's signature is based on outdated internet memes; CLICK HERE NOW to experience this unforgettable phenomenon. This sentence is just filler and as irrelevant as my signature.
 
DPete27
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3776
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: New PC Build

Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:04 am

Maybe I misunderstood, but I think the part that sounded complicated was having to keep an up-to-date disk image on a separate internal drive that you keep disconnected(?) except in the event that you're refreshing the image or using the second drive as a boot drive in case the primary fails.  Just a lot of digging inside your case plugging/unplugging the clone drive each time you do a backup image.  Using an external hdd dock is probably a better way to do this while giving you a fully bootable drive with all your programs, settings, and data in the event of a primary drive failure.

Using an external hard drive for backups allows the same security against power surges (lightening strikes) while being easier to connect/disconnect than an internal drive.  Furthermore, imaging a drive just to back up programs and settings probably isn't needed as frequently as backing up user data, so you could do them separately with an external drive to save time.  This option does take some time to recover from a primary drive failure, but maybe only a few hours.

Cloud storage is probably the best solution for having automatic backups while also being protected in case your house gets struck by lightening, burns down, etc.  But getting all that data off the cloud if you need to re-image would take an eternity compared to local drives depending on how much you've got.  

**disclaimer** my backup techniques are admittedly more archaic than others on TR.  I don't use a NAS, I don't use cloud backups, I don't use imaging/backup software.  I manually save my new user data to an external drive every few months.  I also have an off-site external drive which I update roughly twice a year.  As I said before, I have an OS+Programs drive and a data drive.  If my OS drive fails or I want to upgrade to a larger SSD, I'd have to re-install the OS and programs fresh because I don't keep a disk image.  It would take a few hours, but I don't have to do this very frequently, maybe every 4 years when the upgrade itch gets the best of me, so disk imaging my OS drive isn't worth the hassle to me.  Starting fresh on the OS+Programs drive every so often is a nice way to get all the gunk out that's bogging down your system.

TL;DR - I think most consumers could care less if their system crashes, gets struck by lightening, or goes up in flames as long as their user data is safe.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
frumper15
Gerbil XP
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: New PC Build

Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:20 pm

PFarkas wrote:
DLHM wrote:
Mirroring was for minimal down time in case of drive failure, 

To minimize downtime, at initial build, install the OS to a second drive as well as the SSD so that both are bootable.  The second drive need not be anything fancy - a $40 HGST 1tb NAS drive would be fine.  Once the apps and user environment are configured to the user's satisfaction, boot from the second drive, create and store an image of the SSD on the second drive and put links to the imaging software on the desktop.  Disconnect the second drive because air gap.  Reconnect this drive, boot from it, and create new images periodically or after significant changes to the software configuration occurs.

In the event of drive failure, your time to recover is the time needed to source and install a replacement SSD, boot from the second drive and restore the most recent image, and restore whatever had been backed up to USB.

Using 2.5" hot-swap cages ($40) and a 2.5" secondary drive makes the process even easier.

I think similar functionality could be accomplished using something like Macrium to create a regular image on another drive on a regular and use a bootable recovery disk to restore that image in the event of a failure.  It avoids the upkeep of a second installation, allows for additional and offisite copies of the images, etc.  
i7-8086K | Z370 AORUS GAMING WIFI | 32GB DDR4-2400 | EVGA GTX 1080 Ti | 512GB 960 Pro | 27" Dell 2560x1440 Gsync | Fractal R6 | Seasonic Focus Plus 850W | Win10 Pro x64.
 
seankay
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:43 am

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:33 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
$2K seems like overkill for this application.

$325 Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0/4.2 GHz hyper-threaded quad-core LGA1151 processor
$26½ Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo cooler
$170 2x16 GiB PC4-24000 Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK32GX4M2B3000C15 (DDR4-3000, 15-17-17-35, 1.35V) memory
$130 Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 micro-ATX LGA1151 motherboard
$110 Radeon RX-460 4GB graphics card
or $0 Intel HD Graphics 530 integrated graphics
$170 1x 0.512 TB Intel 600p PCIe+NVMe M.2 SSD
or $240 2x 0.525 TB Crucial MX300 SATA+ACPI 2½" SSD
$50 LG Blu-ray burner
$120 -15MIR SeaSonic SS-660XP2 80+platinum ATX power supply
$100 Silverstone TJ08-E micro-ATX case
$37 Logitech G402 mouse
$76 Cooler Master CM Storm QuickFire TK keyboard
$36½ Cheap 2.1-channel speakers
$91 Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit Home OEM
=====
$1442, delivered

This really is very practical and great bang for the buck!
 
DLHM
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:23 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:28 am

Thanks,again for everyone's help.
Update: This is what I ordered.

($329.99) Intel Core i7-6700K 8M Skylake Quad-Core 4.0 GHz LGA 1151 91W BX80662I76700K Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 530
($209.99) ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII GENE LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Gaming Motherboard
($255.99) CORSAIR Vengeance LED 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3466 (PC4 27700) Memory (Desktop Memory) Model CMU32GX4M4C3466C16R
($315.62) SAMSUNG 950 PRO M.2 512GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V5P512BW

($49.99) Cooler Master N200 - Micro ATX Mini Tower Computer Case with Front 240mm Radiator Support and Ventilated Front Panel
($83.99) ASUS Black 16X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM SATA Blu-ray Burner BW-16D1HT

($79.99) Cooler Master GM Series G550M - Compact 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Modular PSU (6th Generation Skylake Compatible)
($39.99) COOLER MASTER RR-212X-20PM-R1 120mm 4th Generation Bearing CPU Cooler

I've also added 2 - Seagate 3TB HD's that I already have.
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
 
JustAnEngineer
Gerbil God
Posts: 19673
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:32 pm

DLHM wrote:
 ($209.99) ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII GENE LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Gaming Motherboard

This is a fine motherboard, but it costs $80 more than the very good GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 that I suggested.  The only pluses that I see for the extra dough are the Asus name and software support, DisplayPort and an Intel network chip instead of Killer. 


DLHM wrote:
($255.99) CORSAIR Vengeance LED 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3466 (PC4 27700) Memory (Desktop Memory) Model CMU32GX4M4C3466C16R

LEDs on DIMMs are silly.  I definitely would have gone with 2x 16 GiB rather than 4x 8 GiB.


DHLM wrote:
($83.99) ASUS Black 16X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM SATA Blu-ray Burner BW-16D1HT

I've gotten excellent service from LG Blu-ray drives.  What does the Asus drive offer for 68% more cost?


DHLM wrote:
($79.99) Cooler Master GM Series G550M - Compact 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Modular PSU (6th Generation Skylake Compatible)

The SeaSonic 80+ Platinum PSU that I suggested would be more efficient and quieter.  Here's a review at Jonny Guru:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=326

All of the other elements of your build look okay to me.  I like the easy-to-clean filters and compact external dimensions of the Silverstone TJ08-E case, but the Cooler Master case that you selected has a bit more room for radiators, etc.
· R7-5800X, Liquid Freezer II 280, RoG Strix X570-E, 64GiB PC4-28800, Suprim Liquid RTX4090, 2TB SX8200Pro +4TB S860 +NAS, Define 7 Compact, Super Flower SF-1000F14TP, S3220DGF +32UD99, FC900R OE, DeathAdder2
 
CScottG
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1252
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:46 pm

Considering the use and the desire for redundancy along with the healthy budget, I'd probably go with *2* NUC's (with a smaller capacity SSD), some software mirroring between them along with Synergy (Symless.com), good system level backup software and a competent NAS for the that backup (along with data storage). Top off with multiple UPS's: one for each system, one for your modem, and one for your router and access point. (..and maybe even an extra modem and router on-hand.)

Basically 3 small systems, 2 of them identical and the other a multi-disk array with something like Snapraid. (..really: 4 systems when you include a good router which is usually it's own computer - like from Ubiquiti).
 
DLHM
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:23 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:36 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
DLHM wrote:
 ($209.99) ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII GENE LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Gaming Motherboard

This is a fine motherboard, but it costs $80 more than the very good c that I suggested.  The only pluses that I see for the extra dough are the Asus name and software support, DisplayPort and an Intel network chip instead of Killer. 


DLHM wrote:
($255.99) CORSAIR Vengeance LED 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3466 (PC4 27700) Memory (Desktop Memory) Model CMU32GX4M4C3466C16R

LEDs on DIMMs are silly.  I definitely would have gone with 2x 16 GiB rather than 4x 8 GiB.


DHLM wrote:
($83.99) ASUS Black 16X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM SATA Blu-ray Burner BW-16D1HT

I've gotten excellent service from LG Blu-ray drives.  What does the Asus drive offer for 68% more cost?


DHLM wrote:
($79.99) Cooler Master GM Series G550M - Compact 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Modular PSU (6th Generation Skylake Compatible)

The  PSU that I suggested would be more efficient and quieter.  Here's a review at Jonny Guru:


All of the other elements of your build look okay to me.  I like the easy-to-clean filters and compact external dimensions of the Silverstone TJ08-E case, but the Cooler Master case that you selected has a bit more room for radiators, etc.

1. While I'm sure the other one would have been fine,  I try to stick to manufactures that I know well and have never had a problem with.
2. LED's are kinda ridiculous, .. *edited(removed incorrect information). Plus it's just faster memory...
3. Reference answer 1 , I have two LG BD drives that are absolute crap in other machines right now...  BTW I normally love LG, Every piece in my kitchen, including my quartz counter-tops are LG.
4. I've never used that brand, and won't trust it in a computer that needs as close to 100% up time as possible. 
On the case, I do like the look of the case you suggested, but I do already use 2 of the ones I ordered, and like them.
Basically, I'm not going to experiment with new brands on this PC. When I build one for fun, then maybe I'll introduce other brands. I don't want something to fail and then have to explain that I've never used that brand before, but the reviews were good.

-DLHM
Last edited by DLHM on Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
 
DPete27
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3776
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:29 pm

2 DIMMS still use 2 Channels.

Out of curiosity, what is the intended use for this build?  Seems pretty mission-critical to be stored in someone's home closet.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
DLHM
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:23 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:44 pm

DPete27 wrote:
2 DIMMS still use 2 Channels.

Out of curiosity, what is the intended use for this build?  Seems pretty mission-critical to be stored in someone's home closet.

Yes, you are correct, my explanation was incorrect.
It's a home PC that is far away from a someone who can fix it. The user is not technical. It is in a closet because the user doesn't want it on his desk. Long HDMI cables and wireless keyboard and mouse will be used.
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
 
JustAnEngineer
Gerbil God
Posts: 19673
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:45 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
The $120 -15MIR SeaSonic SS-660XP2 80+ Platinum power supply that I suggested would be more efficient and quieter than the Cooler Master GM Series G550M 80+ Bronze PSU that you selected.  Here's a review at Jonny Guru:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=326


DLHM wrote:
I've never used that brand, and won't trust it in a computer that needs as close to 100% up time as possible.  I'm not going to experiment with new brands on this PC. When I build one for fun, then maybe I'll introduce other brands. I don't want something to fail and then have to explain that I've never used that brand before, but the reviews were good.

SeaSonic designs and builds the highest-quality consumer power supplies on the market.  Cooler Master just sticks their branding on power supplies designed and built by someone else.  According to the experts at Jonny Guru, that particular model is built by Channel Well Technology.
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... t&reid=430

It seems a bit odd that you'd choose a rebadged budget power supply for a build obsessed with reliability.
· R7-5800X, Liquid Freezer II 280, RoG Strix X570-E, 64GiB PC4-28800, Suprim Liquid RTX4090, 2TB SX8200Pro +4TB S860 +NAS, Define 7 Compact, Super Flower SF-1000F14TP, S3220DGF +32UD99, FC900R OE, DeathAdder2
 
DLHM
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:23 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New PC Build

Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:54 pm

Interesting, what brand PC would you buy matching my requirements?
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
 
NovusBogus
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:37 am

Re: New PC Build

Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:12 am

DLHM wrote:
supreme desktop user experience(Windows 10).

Warning, captain, dangerous oxymoron detected! Recommend altering course!

But seriously, based on the stated use case here's what I recommend. First off, get a NUC. Or better yet, a Gigabyte Brix which is like a NUC but doesn't have the QC problems that the Skylake NUCs do. Add in the RAM and M.2 SSD of your choice, 512GB is way overkill for web-and-email but will offer some headroom for minor video editing. Then, buy another NUC, a cheap one this time. This will be your backup machine. Add in a 1-2 TB mechanical HDD if that's enough, or a tiny SSD and an external drive if it's not. Now configure Crashplan on both of them such that the main system backs up to the backup system. RAID 1 makes little sense for SSDs, explain to the client that this is a vastly superior way of backing up data. As several people have already noted, RAID 1 is still going to have downtime so the thing to do if no downtime is critical is to have an OS image ready to roll at a moment's notice.

Total cost, less than a thousand bucks.
 
ptsant
Gerbil XP
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:45 pm

Re: New PC Build

Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:45 am

It's a home PC that is far away from a someone who can fix it. The user is not technical. It is in a closet because the user doesn't want it on his desk. Long HDMI cables and wireless keyboard and mouse will be used.


I find this quite amusing. A PC is not the biggest of appliances and can be made quite discreet (black, not very noisy etc). Why do people care so much about not having a tower next to their feet? Maybe he would have been happier with a 5K 27" Mac. Apple mentality is best served with apple products, if you can pay for them of course.
Image
 
Chrispy_
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4670
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Europe, most frequently London.

Re: New PC Build

Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:19 am

DLHM wrote:
Interesting, what brand PC would you buy matching my requirements?

I would pick a Gigabyte motherboard since they were the company that first started making higher-reliability motherboards with dual-BIOSes, dual copper layers in their boards, using only Japanese polymer capacitors, using only ferrite chokes. Most brands do that now, but Gigabyte built their business around it and most of those reliability features trickle much lower down into their product stack than Asus, that's for sure. Take a look at their garbage budget boards; Asus cheap out on everything, there are even those nasty Chinese electrolytic capacitors on their low-end H81 models but Gigabyte boards are still using all solid caps, have ESD protection, Thermal safety on their MOSFETS etc even on their lowest-end H81 board. 

Asus are also trying to use their brand recognition to charge more than Gigabyte for their nasty little boards, so it's a no-brainer for me: Barebones board with the lowest-quality parts for £59, or £46 for the same chipset, good quality parts and a whole bunch of reliability and longevity features. Screw you, Asus.


I would pick a Seasonic power supply; No questions asked. Seasonic PSUs (and rebadged Seasonic designs) consistently get the highest ratings and build-quality praise when a teardown site like JonnyGuru or Techpowerup reviews them.

It doesn't matter what brand it is, from Antec to XFX inclusive, it will have been made by one of the following six companies:

  • ATNG (They do mostly decent budget designs, but a few high-end ones)
  • Channel Well (Cheap stuff, mostly, though Corsair switched to them for later RM-series)
  • Fortron Source (Mid-range stuff, Also sell their own PSUs directly as "FSP")
  • Seasonic (Popular high-end kit, used by most of the big boys and also sold directly as Seasonic)
  • Sirfa (Cheap but still okay - used by OEMs you associate with budget builds like Rosewill and Zalman)
  • Superflower (Silly name, but HUGE and probably second on this list for quality-focus behind Seasonic).
Anyway, if you buy a Cosair, Coolermaster, EVGA or whatever brand, it *might* have been made by Seasonic, or it might be one of the other brands. 

If you buy a Seasonic PSU, it's only going to be a Seasonic. So, either do your research and make sure the PSU you're buying is a rebadged Seasonic, or just buy a Seasonic directly.
Congratulations, you've noticed that this year's signature is based on outdated internet memes; CLICK HERE NOW to experience this unforgettable phenomenon. This sentence is just filler and as irrelevant as my signature.
 
NovusBogus
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:37 am

Re: New PC Build

Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:47 pm

Gotta agree with that assessment of Asus. Their high end stuff is hard to beat but they've been phoning in the lower orders of their product line for a while now.
 
tsoulier
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:17 am
Location: South Louisiana

Re: New PC Build

Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:48 am

Seasonic for sure for PSU
Core I7 2600K @ 4.6 | Asrock P67 Extreme 4 | 16 gig Corsair | EVGA Superclocked GTX 780 | Samsung 840 Pro SSD | Seasonic X-850 W

Phenom II 940 @ 3.6 | Gigabyte MA78G-DS3HP | 2x2 gig G-Skill dr2 800 | 500 W Seasonic | WD 640 HDD | EVGA GTX 570

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
GZIP: On