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derFunkenstein
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:22 pm

Yeah, that's also true. Maybe I'm being a little rash. I do think that the board is the biggest trouble. Newegg will refund it, too. Maybe I'll order a replacement and then return the MSI. The Asus Prime X370 is in stock for $159 adn Gigabyte B350 boards are a hundred bucks. Everyone has had good things to say about Gigabyte AM4 so maybe that's the best option.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:26 pm

If I was buying a board now Gigabyte is probably who I'd go with also. The Asus boards are probably pretty good, but the story of them getting bricked during bios updates is a bit disconcerting.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:29 pm

Well, AB350 Gaming 3 ordered. $100 plus a 30-day Newegg Premier trial, and hopefully it'll be here Friday. If not, Monday.
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LostCat
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:43 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Well, AB350 Gaming 3 ordered. $100 plus a 30-day Newegg Premier trial, and hopefully it'll be here Friday. If not, Monday.

I'm not even sure it was the board, exactly -
https://community.amd.com/community/gam ... zen-system
The AMD Ryzen™ processor does not offer memory dividers for DDR4-3000 or DDR4-3400.

The general memory confusion is entirely why I went with lower clocked memory. Maybe I shouldn't have but I just don't want to have to deal with **** right now.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:47 pm

Well, it does have a divider for 2933, which is what I tried (and failed) to use manually. The highest stable divider is 2666, which is fine. It MIGHT be the reason that the system occasionally craps out on POST, but once booted into Windows I've put my system through the ringer and it's never crashed or hiccuped. Outside of boot problems, it's been absolutely rock solid. I have to say that getting it to POST was not my concern when I bought it; i was more worried about system stability and performance. Ryzen hasn't let me down in those two areas.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:49 pm

I definitely hope my board is solid yeah :( I do early adoption way too often when it comes to twitchy parts.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:09 pm

You'd think being able to update a BIOS/UEFI without bricking the board would be a solved problem these days.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:50 pm

Redocbew wrote:
If I was buying a board now Gigabyte is probably who I'd go with also. The Asus boards are probably pretty good, but the story of them getting bricked during bios updates is a bit disconcerting.


I bricked my Asus Prime X370-Pro doing a BIOS update the day after I got my system assembled - called Asus tech support, but there was nothing that could be done. I sent the board back to Newegg and the replacement is supposed to ship tomorrow. Bonus is that my Windows install is funky now, so I'm going to have to do a clean install when my board arrives. Which is okay, I needed to do one anyway. I'm sure it'll all be fine in the end.

Sorry to hear about derFunkenstein's problems. I'd give another board a try, since that seems to be the issue.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:47 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
AB350 Gaming 3 ordered.
The micro-ATX version is back in stock.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:32 am

I was about to say that maybe Asus should be including a spare UEFI chip until they get the flashing issue resolved, but looking at pics of the board it appears they have ended their long-standing practice of using socketed BIOS/UEFI chips. Sigh. Along with the (lack of) ECC support, that's one more reason I've been a dedicated Asus customer for the past ~10 years gone out the window.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:12 am

Wasn't it fairly common practice in the last...decade...to have a primary and a backup BIOS chip? I know my Gigabyte boards have had them pretty consistently, and it's saved my ass more than once. Did we suddenly have that feature pulled for the sake of LED bling?
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:17 am

A few boards had it, IIRC most did not. I think MSI was big on the "backup BIOS chip" thing for a while.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:50 am

Gigabyte has long advertised its "Dual BIOS" thing (Here it is on a Socket A motherboard). MSI might do it, too, but GIgabyte is the one I remember.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:13 am

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/m ... 7-and-8-1/

See ya, Windows 7, been nice not knowin ya.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:20 am

I'm all for using the latest Windows but that's some bull **** right there.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:23 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
I'm all for using the latest Windows but that's some bull **** right there.

Shrug, they wanted to do the same with Skylake you'll recall. It's not really a surprise.

I have to assume they have a good reason, as it is a little strange.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:32 am

Wouldn't be that big of a deal if they did it that way all along, but it might have been suicide in the Windows 8 days to require new PCs with Haswell to use the new OS. Linux here we come, eh? :lol:
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:35 am

Meh, i'm glad they're doing it. They told people from the get-go that's how it would be.

People should stop using old OS's, end of story.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:41 am

LostCat wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
I'm all for using the latest Windows but that's some bull **** right there.

Shrug, they wanted to do the same with Skylake you'll recall. It's not really a surprise.

I have to assume they have a good reason, as it is a little strange.

Any time the CPU architecture adds new register state (as happened with the introduction of AVX) the OS kernel needs to be modified to save the additional state during context switches. I'm not aware of any new register state introduced in Skylake or Ryzen though. (Not that I've looked, I haven't done x86 assembly programming in a while so I haven't really had the need to dig into stuff at that level of detail.)
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:50 am

just brew it! wrote:
Any time the CPU architecture adds new register state (as happened with the introduction of AVX) the OS kernel needs to be modified to save the additional state during context switches. I'm not aware of any new register state introduced in Skylake or Ryzen though. (Not that I've looked, I haven't done x86 assembly programming in a while so I haven't really had the need to dig into stuff at that level of detail.)

All I'd heard so far was that the clocks on the new architectures were finer grained and older OSes didn't support that which could cause serious driver issues. I don't really know if there is any security reason or other functionality that would cause problems yet.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:24 pm

'Security by Norton' that's...not a reassuring logo to see. (driver disc)

at least I don't even have a disc drive connected heh
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:35 pm

DancinJack wrote:
Meh, i'm glad they're doing it. They told people from the get-go that's how it would be.

People should stop using old OS's, end of story.


I agree completely. Shame that Win7 is a modern OS and is in fact the basis for Windows 8.1/10 the same way that Win2000 and WinXP were essentially the same from a design perspective.

Using XP or Vista would be insane, but everything since then is MinWin based and aside from some questionable new features (Cortana, the Store) Win7->Win10 is a wash.

Now, from an Updates perspective users are going to eventually have to move to Win7 Pro/Ultimate, because of the different extended support dates - which is nonsense, but Marketing was always a powerful force at MS.
I have never understood the mindset of folks who are very hostile to science and progress and yet still use the products produced by the use of science, and still live in a modern society as well.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:14 pm

Wow that was an experience

Windows installer would not start. Downloaded a fresh copy on a faster USB drive. That copy wouldn't start either. Locked up shortly after showing spinny dots.

...

Unplugged RAM and plugged it in different slots, because the manual is very specific about using certain slots without actually telling you which slots those numbers belong to. Amusing, since the rest of the board is EXTREMELY well labeled.

I don't even know if that was necessary or I just needed to reinsert the RAM, but nobody cares.

So then USB3 Windows installer decides it has no licensing information so can't install.

old one worked fine :p

I will let you know more when I know more. Just gotta fight off an activation issue (purchased key, not upgrade) at some point because I didn't expect to get this system built so soon.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:05 am

oh no revodrive won't work except in safe mode :roll: :lol:

well hey I didn't expect it to, but after it started working fine in the A10 I didn't know either way

Planning to get one of these M.2 thingies eventually.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:22 am

just brew it! wrote:
You'd think being able to update a BIOS/UEFI without bricking the board would be a solved problem these days.


ASUS was advertising a dedicated USB flashing ability that was supposed to work even when the board was bricked or hardware was not installed. It was offered on multiple generations and both Intel/AMD boards, and I believe it required ASUS' dual intelligent processors thing to function. http://event.asus.com/2012/mb/USB_BIOS_Flashback_GUIDE/ Far as I know it's still included on their latest models?

derFunkenstein wrote:
Gigabyte has long advertised its "Dual BIOS" thing (Here it is on a Socket A motherboard). MSI might do it, too, but GIgabyte is the one I remember.


Others have offered it but usually as a premium model feature. Gigabyte was the only board maker that ever offered dual BIOS chips by default as a product differentiator.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:23 am

Do some motherboards still come with SPI headers that you can use to flash when even the boot-block is toast?

I did that with an ASUS board once. I dunno, socket-775 era?

Is that not a thing anymore?
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:48 am

On another note, maybe I'm just griping but I hate backplates.

Love this machine though, way faster than anything I've ever touched.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:54 am

hmm so far
(Ryzen 1700, 290 4gb, 16gb 2400 from an A10-7850K with mobo overclocks on with the same vidcard and 16gb 1600 for those tuning in)
3dmark TimeSpy went from 3186(3571gpu1980cpu) on my last build to 3857(3565g7205c)
VRmark Demos test went from 3984 to 4983
Mankind Divided 1080p went
dx11 30.7 44.1 62.2 to 13 54.5 74.3 (that's a little weird, huh. I did see a tiny stutter but the overall bench was smooth.)
dx12 35.4 48.2 63.7 to 50.5 62.6 78

I'm not done messing with benchmarks but I think that's enough sharing. I was worried about the dx12 things I'd read about, but I don't think I had any reason to be.

With as often MD tells me I need more than 4GB for higher settings...I might stick to 1080p on it, and I might not. Honestly, that still seems insane.
 
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:26 am

I'm sure DXMD is showing the absolute worst instantaneous FPS number, which explains the hiccup. Overall it looks like a huge improvement, which is no surprise given your previous system. Hope you enjoy it. :D

My Gigabyte AB350 Gaming-3 has arrived. Won't have time to build it until (probably) Sunday afternoon.
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Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:28 am

So far I'm loving it it's like every single delay that isn't internet related is just gone. 8)
And my fans are never running full blast either. I haven't even put the sides back on the case since my new one is due tomorrow, and I can barely hear anything.

I haven't played a lot of my previously jerky games yet as I'm trying to get Andromedas trial downloaded too. But what I have played of them is awesome.

(Also worth noting: I don't turn Freesync off for any of my tests, and I don't know if that matters to the scores but it doesn't to me. I probably still had Vsync on for MD too.)

Getting my mouse and controllers to stop being godawful flaky (they were before too, so this isn't system related) is my only remaining goal here. I should be getting the new mouse today.

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