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Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:45 pm
by derFunkenstein
Well, I did it. I'd mentioned...somewhere on the front page (not sure exactly where) that I was going to wind up building a PC and shuffling stuff around enough to give my dad the Ivy Bridge i5-based build I replaced in 2015. Since then, it's been mostly spending time in bedroom running Netflix and retro emulators. His Athlon II is at least 8 year old tech (bought at the start of the Windows 7 era). Anyway, I'm rearranging several systems that wind up seeing my Skylake build in the living room where I do most of my gaming, and a new Ryzen system on my desk to run VMs and stuff. I figure this is one of the few places that AMD might outrun a similar Intel build since it has more cores. I'm assuming AMD's VT-x equivalent isn't totally broken. Here's what I ended up ordering.

Ryzen 7 1700
MSI B350 TOMAHAWK
Corsair LPX 32GB DRAM 3000MHz C15 (2x16GB)
MSI GTX 1070 Quicksilver (for the Skylake system. This gets my GTX970. It was $369 on Amazon but today the price is up)
EVGA Supernova G2 650W PSU
3TB HGST Deskstar 7200RPM drive

Reusing:
525 M.2 MX300 (taken from the Skylake system, plenty for VMs and a couple games that need KB/mouse)
Fractal Design Define R4 (this is what the Ivy Bridge system was in before getting moved to a more compact case)

Planning to use the Wraith Spire to see if it can hit an all-core speed of 3.8-4GHz. I'll see how it performs before I replace it. I'm not counting on it for games, though I'm sure it'll run StarCraft and Diablo just fine.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:52 pm
by whm1974
From seeing the benchmarks, the RyZen 1700 has a very good price to performance ratio. So this should be very suitable for your purpose.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:54 pm
by Flying Fox
Is overclocking in the cards? I thought stock RAM runs at DDR4-2400 speeds?

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:56 pm
by derFunkenstein
Overclocking the CPU for sure, but the RAM was the same price for 2667 and 3000 so I figured why not. 2667 is the official memory speed.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:24 pm
by Redocbew
VT-x is usually a pretty safe bet these days. VT-d, not so much but you probably won't be needing that anyway.

Let us know how the machine works out. I'm interested to see another Ryzen build in the wild. :P

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:26 pm
by JustAnEngineer
It looked like the X370 motherboards all went up to PC4-25600 (DDR4-3200). This was on sale for $220 earlier this week. I should have ordered some then. Today, that CL15 kit is the same price as the CL14 stuff. $20 wasn't much of a price difference during the sale, but for today's difference of $100, just stick with PC4-24000 (DDR4-3000).

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:14 pm
by just brew it!
Redocbew wrote:
VT-x is usually a pretty safe bet these days. VT-d, not so much but you probably won't be needing that anyway.

I've been running VMs on AMD processors since the Phenom II days, and yeah the VT-x support (which AMD calls SVM) is solid.

From what I've been reading (I haven't actually tried to use it) VT-d tends to be problematic on consumer AMD motherboards, as it requires support from the BIOS and that support tends to be broken. But as Redocbew indicates, VT-d is less important for non-enterprise users (which probably explains why vendors of consumer motherboards don't bother fixing it).

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:50 am
by derFunkenstein
I'm just running VirtualBox for desktop apps in Windows and Linux, so I'm sure I'll be fine.

I'm a little concerned about this SMT issue in Ubuntu (which I found out about after I got the shipping notification from Newegg) but I'm hoping that since it's abstracted a bit in a VM that it'll be fine.

The X370 boards I wanted were all out of stock at the time I ordered. Same at Amazon. Overclocking is available on the B350 and the board I selected has an x4 PCIe M.2 slot for future use, so I'm good to go with my selection. Weird that NOBODY has AM4 motherboard reviews yet.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:10 am
by just brew it!
derFunkenstein wrote:
I'm just running VirtualBox for desktop apps in Windows and Linux, so I'm sure I'll be fine.

I'm a little concerned about this SMT issue in Ubuntu (which I found out about after I got the shipping notification from Newegg) but I'm hoping that since it's abstracted a bit in a VM that it'll be fine.

I would think (just an educated guess) that as long as the host OS gets the core/thread identification right, the guest should be OK.

I imagine that by the time I get around to building a Ryzen system Ubuntu's default kernel will be new enough that it will be a non-issue.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:43 pm
by derFunkenstein
The GTX 1070 came (Amazon from Kenosha via USPS is pretty quick)...and it won't fit in my mITX case (Corsair 380T). It's just too long. That case is such a boat I never dreamed I'd have to get one of those "mini" cards.

In every way, the MSI GTX 1070 Quicksilver graphics card is enormous. Easily the longest graphics card I've ever owned, this monster adds an inch to my EVGA GTX 970 (ACX 2.0 version). The 1070 is also a bit taller than the 970 (wider protruding well past the PCIe slot). It has a thick metal backplate that also makes it the heaviest card I've ever owned.

The good news is I've been gaming at 1440p with my GTX 970 for a long time, so I'm sure it'll handle the step down to 1080p in my living room. I'm contemplating sending it back and getting a Gigabyte or Zotac mini, but damn, it's purdy.

The power supply is here, too. Here's jonnyguru's review. Lots of cables, fully modular, and quite hefty. If I stuff this PSU and this graphcis card into the Fractal case I have, it'll be a very weighty PC.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:16 pm
by Kougar
Hm, spec sheet says 11", not unusual for a high-end card. Some 980 Ti's are a smidge longer. Definitely big for an mATX build though!

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:45 pm
by derFunkenstein
Well it's a very large mITX case. I shoulda planned better. :lol: :lol:

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:45 am
by JustAnEngineer
derFunkenstein wrote:
Well it's a very large mITX case.
It's YUGE!

Corsair Graphite 380T Mini-ITX: 11.5" wide x 15.5" deep x 14" tall
Footprint: 178 in², Volume: 2493 in³ (41 L)
Graphics card: One double-width PCIe slot, 11.4" (290 mm) maximum length

Are you blocking the graphics card with a radiator?


It's a shame to be limited to a Mini-ITX motherboard in a case that's bigger than many Micro-ATX solutions.
Silverstone Sugo SG10 Micro-ATX: 8.7" wide x 13.9" deep x 11.6" tall
Footprint: 121 in², Volume: 1402 in³ (23 L)
Graphics card: 4 PCIe slots, 13.3" (337 mm) maximum length

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:26 am
by derFunkenstein
By my measurements, the card is 11" but the cooler hangs off another .75 inches, and that's what I can't get into the PC. The case might be 14" long, but the end of the card is obstructed by the front frame where the fan is mounted (top picture in the TR review is a good reference). The Corsair site says the graphics card can have a max length of 290mm and I'm measuring the card to be around 297mm including the cooler.

My options are returning the card, buying a different case, or just kind of living with it since my 970 is fine at 1080p anyway. I'm leaning towards the first option.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:31 am
by JustAnEngineer
derFunkenstein wrote:
The Corsair site says the graphics card can have a max length of 290mm and I'm measuring the card to be around 297mm including the cooler.
Fortunately, Newegg lets you narrow your search by the length of the graphics card:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductL ... ageSize=96

Unfortunately, they've listed the length of your card as 279 mm. :-?

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:28 pm
by derFunkenstein
That's gotta be inverted numbers or something.

edit: for the moment, I'm in love with teh looks of the card. I moved my Skylake system into an mATX CM Elite 344 because I wanted to try out the card. I'm trying not to talk myself into sinking more money into a permanent mATX home for this thing, but that Sugo that JAE linked is awfully purdy. I'm half-tempted to buy something with a window so I can admire all the LEDs. I get why Zak is into RGB LEDs.

By the way, it flies. The 6600K and the 1070 together at 1440p is just a big step up over my ACX 2.0 GTX 970. With DSR turned on, StarCraft II looks amazing at 4K and ultra settings (the latter of which I was already using).

I think I might just keep the 970 in the Skylake box so I can be up close and enjoy what basically looks like SSAA when games are already running fast enough on the Ryzen build that will be in my office.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:58 pm
by derFunkenstein
All the parts are here. It assembled and fired up on the first try. Interesting things:

  • The Wraith Spire has a Smart LED connector so you can control the colors in Windows
  • Apparently all the mobos have the same connector. The B350 Tomahawk does, anyway
  • The BIOS that shipped on the mobo is still the latest available on MSI's website (build date 2/15, even though it's dated 3/1 online)
  • The only stable configuration for my memory is 2133MHz, because that's the fastest SPD. DDR4-3000 is an XMP profile and I can't get XMP to work
  • The same RAM works great at 3000 in my Skylake box
  • That means the BIOS needs work still

I've been ****ing around with it since 3:30PM central and I just now got Windows installed. As long as it boots, stuff seems fine, but DDR4-2133 is super annoying. Patience is going to be the order of the day. Even the Aorus boards that performed well for TR are running private beta firmware that Gigabyte hasn't seen fit to release, so it's no surprise MSI hasn't gotten anything updated out there. It's also no surprise that reviewers did not test on MSI boards - it was all Gigabyte and Asus.

So this is my first Corsair RAM in a while. Is these low SPD speeds and a single XMP the norm? My G.Skill RAM is rated for DDR4-2400, and that works on this board, so that's what I'm using for now and I can use the Corsair in the other machine. This is the kit I bought: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeance- ... m2b3000c15

It looks sexy assembled. I kinda wish the case had a window.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:49 pm
by Redocbew
Yay for being an early adopter. :-?

Think maybe I'll wait a while before upgrading the plex machine. I haven't bought Corsair memory in a while either, but that's also good to know if the SPD thing is the norm.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:57 pm
by derFunkenstein
If this was my main PC I'd pack it up and send it all back to Newegg and buy a Kaby Lake because I wouldn't be able to wait. Since it's not, I can allow it to go through its teething pains.

Edit: I don't think I'd recommend OCing with the Wraith Spire. I mean, it was easy - my CPU has a max turbo speed of 3.7, so I set the clock to 3.7 so that all cores could hit that speed. But the temps keep climbing. I'm using CPU-Z's "stress" bench to keep it busy and the temp keeps slowly rising. 64C after a half hour is probably fine, but I won't go higher than 3.7 until I have better cooling on the chip. And that's going to take buying a cooler, since Cooler Master says my Hyper 212 Evo isn't officially supported on AM4 without a kit. Maybe I'll just hit them up for that instead.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:46 pm
by derFunkenstein

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:52 am
by Redocbew
Is that a Define R5 for the case? Looks nifty. Hopefully the growing pains don't last too long. :P

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:23 am
by Jigar
derFunkenstein wrote:


Nice - thumbs up.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:36 am
by derFunkenstein
Redocbew wrote:
Is that a Define R5 for the case? Looks nifty. Hopefully the growing pains don't last too long. :P

It's supposed to be a Define R4. I ordered it from Newegg right around the time the R5 came out, and the box said R4 but the sticker on the bottom says R5. I"m thinking Fractal Design packed the wrong case into the box. I've always called it an R4, but it has the covered side and top panels like the R5.

I'm also hoping the growing pains don't last too long. AMD better be hoping that, too. :p

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:17 pm
by Vhalidictes
derFunkenstein, 3 figures of builds later (almost literally, I'd have to check), XMP enabled? 0 of them. It never, ever, works stably. Although the reasons for that are different and I'd agree a mature BIOS would help tremendously.

My question: What happens when you change the memory timings manually?

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:34 pm
by DancinJack
XMP works totally fine for me on Skylake+Corsair that I run 24/7 as my main computer.

I wouldn't generalize so much and say "It never, ever, works stably." That's your experience and it's useful, but saying it just never works is probably something you should avoid.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:48 pm
by Mr Bill
derFunkenstein wrote:
The X370 boards I wanted were all out of stock at the time I ordered. Same at Amazon. Overclocking is available on the B350 and the board I selected has an x4 PCIe M.2 slot for future use, so I'm good to go with my selection. Weird that NOBODY has AM4 motherboard reviews yet.
Pity, I liked the Asus board for having the Display Port. My last AM3+ build, I selected an MSI gaming board and the hot AMD 2400 DDR3 memory. The MSI box had been opened and used and was missing all the goodies, so I sent it back and got the Asus equivalent. It was quite a struggle, refused to run on even one stick of DDR. Finally checked Asus's DDR compatibility list and the AMD memory was not on the list. I had to change to slower Crucial Tech DDR which worked right away (and they guarenteed it would, nice folks). So, check to see if that DDR is supported.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:58 pm
by astrotech66
I built my Ryzen 1700X + Asus Prime X370-Pro last night, but haven't had a chance to really play with it yet. Here's a brief synopsis:

- Cooler Master hasn't released an AM4 compatibility kit yet for my liquid cooler, so I bought a CM Hyper T4 air cooler to get me by in the meantime.
- I installed the Hyper T4 and then realized it was blocking the first two RAM slots and that the memory I bought was too tall to fit under it. I had to use the RAM from my wife's computer, which is a lot shorter, and give her the fancy RAM I just bought for now. But even the short RAM wouldn't go in without removing the cooler, so I ended up installing that twice, to my great annoyance.
- I didn't do a clean Windows install, I just replaced my old CPU/Mobo/RAM with the new stuff. Windows handled it well, no blue screens or crashes. I put the Asus driver disk in and everything seems to have installed correctly. However, my copy of Windows is now no longer activated, so I guess I'll be making a call to Microsoft.
- I installed Ryzen Master and fired it up briefly. It showed my CPU at about 61C, which didn't make me happy. It could be because I have F@H running, but when I checked the folding client it showed that only the GPU was running, not the CPU. I'll have to check this further and may be looking at either reinstalling the cooler or going with a different solution. Or maybe I just need to change the fan profile.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:03 pm
by derFunkenstein
XMP had never been a problem for me on Intel systems, and as I mentioned above it worked fine on my Skylake box. At any rate, I had been reluctant to tinker much more because of the issues I've had.

Now that it's lunchtime and I can take a little time, I threw caution to the wind and gave it a shot. At 2933 it still failed to POST and recovered itself (which is both disappointing and nice). At the 2933 timings/voltage (1.35v) and a clock of 2667, however, it POSTed on the first try, booted into Windows, and successfully ran the 3DMark TimeSpy test. I saw a modest 4% gain on the CPU test. I'm actually running at higher clocks than Jeff coaxed out of his Gigabyte board for the Ryzen review (which ran DDR4-3200 memory at 2400MHz, based on the test setup). I've hit Ryzen's "official" max memory clock and it seems to have done something for me.

But man have I been spoiled by Ivy Bridge and Skylake.

Mr Bill wrote:
Pity, I liked the Asus board for having the Display Port. My last AM3+ build, I selected an MSI gaming board and the hot AMD 2400 DDR3 memory. The MSI box had been opened and used and was missing all the goodies, so I sent it back and got the Asus equivalent. It was quite a struggle, refused to run on even one stick of DDR. Finally checked Asus's DDR compatibility list and the AMD memory was not on the list. I had to change to slower Crucial Tech DDR which worked right away (and they guarenteed it would, nice folks). So, check to see if that DDR is supported.

The onboard video ports don't matter much to me since Ryzen doesn't have onboard graphics. When APUs come out, though, it'll be useful.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:06 pm
by DancinJack
astrotech66 wrote:
- I didn't do a clean Windows install, I just replaced my old CPU/Mobo/RAM with the new stuff. Windows handled it well, no blue screens or crashes. I put the Asus driver disk in and everything seems to have installed correctly. However, my copy of Windows is now no longer activated, so I guess I'll be making a call to Microsoft.


So let me get this right...

You went from old system to new system without Windows refresh
You used the drivers on the disc that came with your motherboard

Have we taught people nothing in all these years? I will admit a fresh install is less necessary than it used to be when switching systems, but there is no way I'd be caught dead doing that. But come on, the Asus disc? really?

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:07 pm
by derFunkenstein
astrotech66 wrote:
I built my Ryzen 1700X + Asus Prime X370-Pro last night, but haven't had a chance to really play with it yet. Here's a brief synopsis:

- Cooler Master hasn't released an AM4 compatibility kit yet for my liquid cooler, so I bought a CM Hyper T4 air cooler to get me by in the meantime.
- I installed the Hyper T4 and then realized it was blocking the first two RAM slots and that the memory I bought was too tall to fit under it. I had to use the RAM from my wife's computer, which is a lot shorter, and give her the fancy RAM I just bought for now. But even the short RAM wouldn't go in without removing the cooler, so I ended up installing that twice, to my great annoyance.

I thought about buying one of these to get by while I waited for a good selection of AM4 CL coolers to become available, and then decided not to because it looked like it installs rotated by 90 degrees. That exhausts air up instead of back, and I figured it'd block RAM slots. Looks like that's indeed the case. :(

- I didn't do a clean Windows install, I just replaced my old CPU/Mobo/RAM with the new stuff. Windows handled it well, no blue screens or crashes. I put the Asus driver disk in and everything seems to have installed correctly. However, my copy of Windows is now no longer activated, so I guess I'll be making a call to Microsoft.

Very bold. I had already backed everything up so I figured I'd just clean install, but it's good that it worked at least.

- I installed Ryzen Master and fired it up briefly. It showed my CPU at about 61C, which didn't make me happy. It could be because I have F@H running, but when I checked the folding client it showed that only the GPU was running, not the CPU. I'll have to check this further and may be looking at either reinstalling the cooler or going with a different solution. Or maybe I just need to change the fan profile.

I'm not sure I trust any of the on-CPU measuring tools yet. One thread I read is that your motherboard got a BIOS update that dropped temps across the board by (I think) 20C, like it was a bad offset. It could be that your CPU is running fine but the BIOS is reading it wrong.