Personal computing discussed

Moderator: JustAnEngineer

 
synthtel2
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:30 am

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:11 pm

DancinJack wrote:
I wouldn't generalize so much and say "It never, ever, works stably." That's your experience and it's useful, but saying it just never works is probably something you should avoid.

^ That. ^ My own experiences say it's flawless (over 3 to 5 builds, depending on how you count). I conclude from that that Intel + ASRock + G.Skill at ~150% of JEDEC is a good bet and BD/Asus/Crucial probably aren't terrible, but not much about anything else.
 
astrotech66
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:48 am
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:29 pm

DancinJack wrote:
astrotech66 wrote:
- I didn't do a clean Windows install, I just replaced my old CPU/Mobo/RAM with the new stuff. Windows handled it well, no blue screens or crashes. I put the Asus driver disk in and everything seems to have installed correctly. However, my copy of Windows is now no longer activated, so I guess I'll be making a call to Microsoft.


So let me get this right...

You went from old system to new system without Windows refresh
You used the drivers on the disc that came with your motherboard

Have we taught people nothing in all these years? I will admit a fresh install is less necessary than it used to be when switching systems, but there is no way I'd be caught dead doing that. But come on, the Asus disc? really?


Yeah, I know. I normally don't use the disk, but I was in a time crunch. Tonight I'm going to go download the latest drivers from the Asus website.

My Windows 10 install is a free upgrade from Windows 7. I don't have any Windows 10 install media handy. At some point I'll get one and do a clean install.
 
Vhalidictes
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1658
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Paragon City, RI

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:59 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
XMP had never been a problem for me on Intel systems, and as I mentioned above it worked fine on my Skylake box. At any rate, I had been reluctant to tinker much more because of the issues I've had.


I've not built a desktop system since Haswell, that might be why. Possibly a motherboard maturity thing.

Also, congrats on getting the manual timings up! It really does seem like memory speed matters again, which is sad because I hated paying the "gamer" memory tax back in the bad old days of DDR1.
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Topic Author
Posts: 23833
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:03 pm

Hypothesis: this crazy Ryzen launch did harm to the complexity/difficulty of the PC and PC gaming than all of Apple's "I'm a Mac / I'm a PC" commercials combined.

BTW there are beta BIOSes for my board. They seem to have shaved a couple seconds off of boot time. XMP is still hosed, and I can still boot my Mac to the desktop in the time it takes my Ryzen build to POST (?!)
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:06 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Hypothesis: this crazy Ryzen launch did harm to the complexity/difficulty of the PC and PC gaming than all of Apple's "I'm a Mac / I'm a PC" commercials combined.

BTW there are beta BIOSes for my board. They seem to have shaved a couple seconds off of boot time. XMP is still hosed, and I can still boot my Mac to the desktop in the time it takes my Ryzen build to POST (?!)

That's pretty damn weird I always held MSI (and AMD builds) to a higher standard than that. Haven't heard any similar stories elsewhere at least, not that there are a lot of people with Ryzen boxes yet.

I hope I can build soon :-? My plans lately seem to be going a little sideways.
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1347
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:22 am

There were reports of Asus boards getting bricked during BIOS updates as well. It seems Jeff had a good experience with the Aorus boards from Gigabyte while running tests for the review, but they also had to release an update in order to help speed things up. If you can wait I'd wait all the same.

The delayed POST thing is weird. I'm not a firmware guy, but if it's taking that long to post I gotta think there's a bug in there somewhere instead of it just being rushed and lacking any kind of optimization. The only thing I've seen recently which behaved like that were boards being finicky about USB devices during POST, but it sounds like this is something different.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2032
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:44 am

astrotech66 wrote:
Yeah, I know. I normally don't use the disk, but I was in a time crunch. Tonight I'm going to go download the latest drivers from the Asus website.

My Windows 10 install is a free upgrade from Windows 7. I don't have any Windows 10 install media handy. At some point I'll get one and do a clean install.

Upgrade installs are fine, switching boards is fine. I'd have just skipped the driver disk, personally, unless you couldn't get network drivers working or something.

My current Windows 10 install is from a day-one install of Windows 7 preview, upgrade to Windows 7, and upgrade to Windows 10. MANY boards swapped out during that long reign.


Delayed POST sounds like a timeout or something that isn't quite right yet.
Z170A Gaming Pro Carbon | 6700K @ 4.5 | 16 GB | GTX Titan X | Seasonix Gold 850 | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 | D5 + RP-452X2 | Cosmos II | Samsung 4K 40" | 480 + 240 + LSI 9207-8i (128x8) SSDs
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Topic Author
Posts: 23833
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:35 pm

Redocbew wrote:
There were reports of Asus boards getting bricked during BIOS updates as well. It seems Jeff had a good experience with the Aorus boards from Gigabyte while running tests for the review, but they also had to release an update in order to help speed things up. If you can wait I'd wait all the same.

Everything on the internets has been that Gigabyte/Aorus's boards have had a better time than most. The Gaming-5 that Jeff used for the review was my first choice, but I couldn't find it in stock. I should have just waited.

The delayed POST thing is weird, but everyone with an MSI board is experiencing it. It happens at the graphics card intialization point. The LED for "graphics card issue" comes on for about 3 seconds, goes out, and then the fan on my card spins up on high like it's just coming to life. It's like the BIOS doesn't try to initialize the graphics card until it's needed, which introduces a "graphics card initialization time's worth" of delay. There's a big thread on the MSI forums complaining about it. https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=282868.0

Saw this very interesting editorial on LegitReviews. One anonymous board partner lighting AMD up like a Christmas tree. http://www.legitreviews.com/one-motherb ... ing_192470

In late December, AMD decided to pull in the launch date (it was scheduled to launch in late Q2) and launched it right after Chinese New Year but AMD keep the CPU supply quantity secret from us the whole time. They only shared the data 2 weeks before the launch, we didn’t understand why they were doing it. Also, their BIOS team and engineers were doing terrible jobs on supporting us on the BIOS microcode updates, driver updates, CPU samples for testing. They have done nothing they should have been doing to support the launch platform partners and always delay or give no response on support requests. We were all having huge issues to debug with limited AMD resource support including validating the parts, and fixing the memory clock speed that is all limited by AMD.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
Kougar
Silver subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2031
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:12 am
Location: Texas

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:32 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Saw this very interesting editorial on LegitReviews. One anonymous board partner lighting AMD up like a Christmas tree. http://www.legitreviews.com/one-motherb ... ing_192470

In late December, AMD decided to pull in the launch date (it was scheduled to launch in late Q2) and launched it right after Chinese New Year but AMD keep the CPU supply quantity secret from us the whole time. They only shared the data 2 weeks before the launch, we didn’t understand why they were doing it. Also, their BIOS team and engineers were doing terrible jobs on supporting us on the BIOS microcode updates, driver updates, CPU samples for testing. They have done nothing they should have been doing to support the launch platform partners and always delay or give no response on support requests. We were all having huge issues to debug with limited AMD resource support including validating the parts, and fixing the memory clock speed that is all limited by AMD.


Ahh, I wonder if that was the source of what I've been reading elsewhere as I've been hearing about the very same thing.

If it is true then there weren't even ships with motherboards in transit at the time of launch. Typically even if product won't be around for a hard launch, it will at least be half-way through transit on the slow haulers so there won't be a protracted wait time. Some other news sources were also stating launch day stock was flown in. It could be 2-4 more weeks before motherboard stock normalizes. Depending when they plan to launch it may even pose an issue for Rzyen 5 as that ought to see much higher demand.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:48 am

I might be able to pick up some of it earlier than I thought.

I'm fairly far behind as far as my current comp and gaming goes so I wouldn't really argue with some weirdness.

Didn't even realize the 1700x and 1800x weren't coming with the cooler? wtf o.O
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25418
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:42 pm

LostCat wrote:
Didn't even realize the 1700x and 1800x weren't coming with the cooler? wtf o.O

I thought the fully boxed version does come with cooler, just not the super fancy one but all of them have LEDs already.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:46 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
LostCat wrote:
Didn't even realize the 1700x and 1800x weren't coming with the cooler? wtf o.O

I thought the fully boxed version does come with cooler, just not the super fancy one but all of them have LEDs already.

All the 1700x and 1800x on Newegg are saying 'Without Fan and Cooler'

...cripes that is lame. Cat is not impressed.
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 49697
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:16 pm

LostCat wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
LostCat wrote:
Didn't even realize the 1700x and 1800x weren't coming with the cooler? wtf o.O

I thought the fully boxed version does come with cooler, just not the super fancy one but all of them have LEDs already.

All the 1700x and 1800x on Newegg are saying 'Without Fan and Cooler'

...cripes that is lame. Cat is not impressed.

The 'X' versions do not include one, on the assumption you'll want to choose your own aftermarket cooler. The non-'X' versions come with a Wraith cooler. Sounds reasonable to me.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:29 pm

just brew it! wrote:
The 'X' versions do not include one, on the assumption you'll want to choose your own aftermarket cooler. The non-'X' versions come with a Wraith cooler. Sounds reasonable to me.

Eh. I like choice and all but since they decided their old coolers were crap (which they were) I was looking forward to trying one of these.
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
frumper15
Gerbil XP
Posts: 351
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:07 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:

It looks sexy assembled. I kinda wish the case had a window.


You can always just buy the window/door from Fractal - I'm not sure they ship to where you are or not but here you go: http://www.fractal-design-shop.de/index.php?a=679

Otherwise you might be looking at buying a windowed R5 for a future build and swap the side panels as windowed R5 side panels don't appear to be for sale in the US for some reason - you can buy a solid one if you want a backup and try modding your own... https://www.pugetsystems.com/store/?cat ... +Define%22
i7-6700K | Z170X-Ultra Gaming | 32GB DDR4-2400 | EVGA GTX 1080 | 256GB SAMSUNG SM951 M.2 | 27" ACHIEVA 2560x1440 LED | Nanoxia Deep Silence 3 | EVGA SuperNOVA 550G2 | Win10 Pro x64.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:27 pm

I could buy today as it happens, but with the mobo supply so awkward I think I should wait.
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Topic Author
Posts: 23833
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:33 pm

frumper15 wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:

It looks sexy assembled. I kinda wish the case had a window.


You can always just buy the window/door from Fractal - I'm not sure they ship to where you are or not but here you go: http://www.fractal-design-shop.de/index.php?a=679

Otherwise you might be looking at buying a windowed R5 for a future build and swap the side panels as windowed R5 side panels don't appear to be for sale in the US for some reason - you can buy a solid one if you want a backup and try modding your own... https://www.pugetsystems.com/store/?cat ... +Define%22

The German shop is going to charge 39.90 Euro to ship. Makes sense, but not really cost-effective. I would be better off just buying a new case. No way would I mod it. I'm not that talented.

If you're even remotely interested in overclocking, don't bother with a 1700X or an 1800X. Just get the plain-Jane 1700.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:45 pm

And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1347
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Woohoo! Go LostCat! It's funny in a depressing sort of way how being able to snag a Ryzen board is like some kind of competition.

derFunkenstein wrote:
No way would I mod it. I'm not that talented.


Heh, I was going to say the materials for the mod would be less than the cost of shipping, but yeah I understand. If I end up doing another mod or scratch build it'd probably be window-less anyway. Woodworking I can do and have things turn out nice. Using acrylic sheets as a building material in pretty much any way at all, not so much.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:50 pm

Especially the mATX ones yeah. I went with random recommendations people have given me lately and that this board has a new Realtek codec, since the board I really wanted isn't available.
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:44 pm

erf maybe it doesn't on the Realtek thing. Oh well, my headphones I rarely use probably won't care.

I'm more an HDMI audio guy since the 6870 or so.
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:17 am

The manual claims the UEFI has a setting
& 3DMark01 Enhancement
Allows you to determine whether to enhance some legacy benchmark performance. (Default: Disabled)

*facepalam* hahahaha oi...probably isn't even relevant to 3dmark in general of course, but wtf
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1347
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:37 am

Yeah, I've seen that setting before also. Evidence of marketing people at work.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Topic Author
Posts: 23833
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:14 pm

The description in the Z170N-Gaming 5 BIOS indicates that it's for built-in graphics. Definitely an odd setting.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:16 pm

Apparently my parts get here Thursday but I don't have a shipping notification on the case yet o.o

I might get murdery if they aren't all here on Friday ;)
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
LostCat
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:18 am
Location: Alphanumeric symbols.

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:39 am

noooo case coming Saturday guess I'm doing ANOTHER bloody case transplant tomorrow. I'll live. Probably. You never know. :lol:

At least I never hooked the other system back up so the Sonata 3 is empty except for still having my old PSU in it.

(GPU doesn't fit in that one.)
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Topic Author
Posts: 23833
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:51 pm

I'm sending everything back to Newegg. This has nothing to do with performance (and if you've been following along with my performance results in the "scheduler" thread, you'll see performance has been good). It has to do with my frustrating experience with the AM4 platform. Every day or so, I have to clear the CMOS because again it can't handle my memory. It still takes FOREVER to POST and randomly doesn't POST. I'm just done with it all. Maybe down the road I'll consider Ryzen, and maybe it's just a different motherboard that I need, but I don't want to hang onto this to the point where Newegg wont' take it back. I'll eat my restocking fee as a reminder about being an early adopter. :lol:

I still have to deal with moving stuff around, so I'll get a Kaby Lake something-or-other relatively shortly.

edit: apparently no refunds on CPUs. Replacement-only return policy means I gotta find a way to make it work.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1347
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:11 pm

I've found it pretty easy to sell CPUs on Amazon's market place. I imagine you could probably still get pretty close to retail for it since we're still so close to the launch. Something to think about, maybe.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
derFunkenstein
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Topic Author
Posts: 23833
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:15 pm

Yeah, that's a good idea. Thanks! eBay will take their cut, too, but that's another option.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
Vhalidictes
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1658
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Paragon City, RI

Re: Ryzen to the occasion

Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:19 pm

derFunkenstein, I'd sit on that CPU. The problems appear to be board-based and eventually it should be a fine machine. If you need to sell it for cash-flow reasons I'd either put it up on Ebay, or, alternatively you could PM me as I've been looking for one myself.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests