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JayantBedwal
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Building a new PC for the first time.

Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:48 pm

Hi Guys

I am trying yo build my own system for the very first time. I have selected all the components except a cooler for the CPU. I have no idea which one to select to. Can you guys help me out with it?

As this is my first time, I might be making a lot of mistakes. Can you guys go ahead and look at the components that I have selected and let me know if they are good and match all the requirements.

I am not actually looking for a gaming PC, I just need it to work on heavy software like Xilinx Vivado and others. Maybe I can completely do away with the graphics card as well and just Intel HD Graphics. Budget is around $800, so need to cut some stuff or buy from somewhere which offers great deals, but have no idea where to start from.

CPU
Intel i7 7700K
GPU
Gigabyte GTX 1050Ti
Case
Cooler Master Case
Power Supply
EVGA 430W
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z270N-Wifi

Thank You
 
CScottG
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:53 pm

1st thing to look at is your workload, specifically what sort of programs you are using and how they utilize the CPU with respect to how you use those programs. ALSO, if any can be used with Nvidia or AMD video cards for additional processing. Will you be using multiple programs at once, and if so - which. What amount of memory is typically used?

For the most part what you are asking for is typically known as a "workstation" - using ECC memory. This generally means Xeon processors (though there are Skylake i3's with ecc support) and specific motherboards that will use ecc memory as ecc memory (C236 & C232).



At the low-end you could use an i3-6100 (2 cores, 4 threads) with a less expensive C236 mother board that has the video-out you need along with ecc memory (unbuffered) in the amount you need.

This would be about $115 for the processor and $150 for the motherboard (MSI C236M) + the unbuffered ECC memory in the amount you desire. A Xeon E3-1225 V5, 4 cores 4 threads, (around $230) or an E3-1245 v5, 4 cores 8 threads, (around $290) would be the next steps "up" utilizing the same mother board (..and both processors have iGPU's). (..and the extra spent on the 1245 (vs. the 1225) is a much better deal IMO.) Beware of the pricing on unbuffered ECC memory - it's almost doubled from what it was about 9 months ago - a single 16 gig stick is going to cost about $140.


You might also wait a bit to see what AMD's Ryzen will offer in the ECC motherboard compatible department over the next few months.
Last edited by CScottG on Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
DPete27
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:07 am

Looks like you've selected a mITX motherboard. You didn't mention the model of the case you chose. In the mITX arena, space/clearance is an important factor, so we'll need to know the selected case in order to make CPU heatsink recommendations.

Also, when building mITX, a "modular" power supply can oftentimes be a good thing to go for. mITX cases usually don't have a lot of extra room to tuck away unused wires, so a modular PSU lets you only connect the wires you need.

I would omit the graphics card for now.
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Flying Fox
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:42 am

Welcome to the Tech Report! :) You have come to right place to ask.

JayantBedwal wrote:
heavy software like Xilinx Vivado and others.
Looks like your needs are not the usual PhotoShop/LightRoom. It would be nice if you list all of your apps, and if you know what their performance characteristics. Basically, do they like faster clocks, or more RAM, or faster disk I/O? That will help us optimize your component needs.

JayantBedwal wrote:
Maybe I can completely do away with the graphics card as well and just Intel HD Graphics. Budget is around $800, so need to cut some stuff or buy from somewhere which offers great deals, but have no idea where to start from.
Most definitely, except as in the above if your apps use the GPU for rendering or other calculations. Then using the iGPU you may have to suffer a bit, but it should not stop working altogether.

JayantBedwal wrote:
Cooler Master Case
Can you tell us which exact model you have chosen? Since the 7700K does not come with a heatsink+fan combo, most after market ones are tower base and we cannot pick something that is too tall and won't fit into the case.

JayantBedwal wrote:
Gigabyte Z270N-Wifi
Since this is not a gaming build, I am not sure if overclocking is in your plans? If not, getting a decent H270 board (or even B250) may mean some savings. Btw, do you really need the wifi feature?

BTW, you can refer to the latest System Guide, and inside there is a video on how to build a PC by yourself. Very informative. ;)
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JayantBedwal
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:18 am

DPete27 wrote:
Looks like you've selected a mITX motherboard. You didn't mention the model of the case you chose. In the mITX arena, space/clearance is an important factor, so we'll need to know the selected case in order to make CPU heatsink recommendations.

Also, when building mITX, a "modular" power supply can oftentimes be a good thing to go for. mITX cases usually don't have a lot of extra room to tuck away unused wires, so a modular PSU lets you only connect the wires you need.

I would omit the graphics card for now.


I have made some changes and now I am planning to go with a Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX case and Gigabyte Z270N-WIFI board.
 
JayantBedwal
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:22 am

Flying Fox wrote:
Welcome to the Tech Report! :) You have come to right place to ask.

JayantBedwal wrote:
heavy software like Xilinx Vivado and others.
Looks like your needs are not the usual PhotoShop/LightRoom. It would be nice if you list all of your apps, and if you know what their performance characteristics. Basically, do they like faster clocks, or more RAM, or faster disk I/O? That will help us optimize your component needs.

JayantBedwal wrote:
Maybe I can completely do away with the graphics card as well and just Intel HD Graphics. Budget is around $800, so need to cut some stuff or buy from somewhere which offers great deals, but have no idea where to start from.
Most definitely, except as in the above if your apps use the GPU for rendering or other calculations. Then using the iGPU you may have to suffer a bit, but it should not stop working altogether.

JayantBedwal wrote:
Cooler Master Case
Can you tell us which exact model you have chosen? Since the 7700K does not come with a heatsink+fan combo, most after market ones are tower base and we cannot pick something that is too tall and won't fit into the case.

JayantBedwal wrote:
Gigabyte Z270N-Wifi
Since this is not a gaming build, I am not sure if overclocking is in your plans? If not, getting a decent H270 board (or even B250) may mean some savings. Btw, do you really need the wifi feature?

BTW, you can refer to the latest System Guide, and inside there is a video on how to build a PC by yourself. Very informative. ;)


One of the most important software is Xilinx and it runs very well using all the threads available on the CPU. Like if 8 threads are available it can make use of all of them simultaneously. Requires around 3-4GB memory when running. Another one is build environment for Chisel which uses a single thread but requires huge amount of RAM sometimes as high as 8GB. These two are the most heavy of all of them but are never run simultaneously. Faster clock speeds help to synthesize and implement hardware quickly for me in Xilinx and Chisel build environment.

I have selected the Phanteks Evolv ITX case, Gigabyte Z270N-WIFI board, EVGA 430W power supply, a M.2 SSD but I am not sure if the board supports a NVMe or not(advise on this as well).

Also I really need the wifi as I share my flat( I am a Master student) so we have a single internet connection which I cannot hijack :)
 
NovusBogus
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:52 am

As a first build I don't recommend overclocking, so any regular socket 1151-friendly fan should suffice. If you're going mini ITX you should be mindful of how much clearance you'll have in the case--Phanteks website tells me that case has 200mm CPU cooler clearance which should be enough for an upright fan like the ubiquitous CM 212 Evo.

I work with some Vivado users, I'll ask them tomorrow whether it favors more memory, more cores, or more speed.

You don't need a discrete GPU unless you're gaming or have an application that specifically needs it like Davinci Resolve or high-end CAD packages. Intel IGP doesn't suck like it used to and can actually handle some low-res gaming on its own these days.

If you're on a budget and this is Serious Business usage, you may want to look into off lease corporate workstations. A Haswell era Xeon holds up well against later generations and I've seen them on sale for not much more than $800. Those also support ECC memory, and while I generally don't care about ECC it's well known that FPGA binaries can be...ornery...so it might be prudent to err on the side of caution.
 
JayantBedwal
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:15 am

NovusBogus wrote:
As a first build I don't recommend overclocking, so any regular socket 1151-friendly fan should suffice. If you're going mini ITX you should be mindful of how much clearance you'll have in the case--Phanteks website tells me that case has 200mm CPU cooler clearance which should be enough for an upright fan like the ubiquitous CM 212 Evo.

I work with some Vivado users, I'll ask them tomorrow whether it favors more memory, more cores, or more speed.

You don't need a discrete GPU unless you're gaming or have an application that specifically needs it like Davinci Resolve or high-end CAD packages. Intel IGP doesn't suck like it used to and can actually handle some low-res gaming on its own these days.

If you're on a budget and this is Serious Business usage, you may want to look into off lease corporate workstations. A Haswell era Xeon holds up well against later generations and I've seen them on sale for not much more than $800. Those also support ECC memory, and while I generally don't care about ECC it's well known that FPGA binaries can be...ornery...so it might be prudent to err on the side of caution.


Thank you for your information. Please do ask your friends about Vivado and it's usage and provide me guidance based on it. Building a new PC is very confusing with so many details and options to look at.
 
HERETIC
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:19 am

I know you have a budget-but if you can shave off some dollars somewhere-BUY A BETTER PSU.
My opinion is that the PSU is the most important part of any build.
EVGA sells some great PSU's-The 430W is not one of them.
Suggest the Seasonic in the system guide or even a G450 semi modular.............................

Notice you don't mention what your going to be booting off.
SSD is almost a must these days...........
good luck.
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:08 am

For your first build, I suggest micro-ATX rather than mini-ITX. It's a bit less expensive and it's a lot easier to fit everything together.

The Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo is a fine CPU cooler that performs as well as units costing twice as much, but it is 159 mm tall. Not every case is wide enough to accept that height. If you're not overclocking, stepping down from a 120 mm fan to a 92 mm fan for a shorter 130 mm tall cooler like the Arctic Freezer i11 should be fine.
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DPete27
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:50 am

Fantastic. I love the Phanteks Enthoo Evolv cases!! The product page states 200mm clearance for CPU cooler. I'd recommend the Cooler Master Hyper 212X for $30 after MIR. It's a perennial favorite.

Regarding the PSU, you didn't answer what your EVGA model was, but I'll assume it's this one for $40. Since your chosen case has a window (and just for optimizing airflow), it would be nice to minimize cable clutter. For the same price after MIR you can get the Corsair CX550-M modular which would leave the door open for a nice graphics card later down the road if you think you might get into gaming. Otherwise the CX450-M is slightly cheaper and would still allow a perfectly capable 1080p-class GPU add-in. I'll admit, these aren't the greatest PSUs on the planet, but they're arguably the most popular as a derivative of the Corsair CX430. If you can find room in your budget for a slightly better PSU, look for something modular with 80 Plus Gold efficiency rating. Something like the SeaSonic G550 for $60 is a nice unit.

Regarding overclocking. The fact of the matter is that the i7-7700K really pushes itself to the limits automatically already. Most reviews are only able to push it from stock 4.5GHz to 4.8GHz, and 6% OC is not much for the jump in power consumption/heat. The thing you're getting with the 7700K is that it's got the highest clocks in the family. Dropping down to the i7-7700 will drop your clockspeed to 4.2GHz max but will save you $35, and/or since the Gigabyte Z270N-WiFi is a $150 board, you can drop to a H270 or B250 board (even while keeping the i7-7700K) would save an additional $30-$50. All of a sudden you can afford that Seasonic G550 PSU!
**keep in mind though that H270/B250 are going to limit RAM speeds to 2400MHz. You'll need a Z-series mobo to go higher than that. You can make up for a few bins of RAM frequency by purchasing a kit with a lower CAS, but that too has it's limitations.
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NovusBogus
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:53 pm

I looked into the situation and was told that Vivado likes lots of fast memory (>= 16 GB) and lots of cores (configurable in application/project settings) provided the project is reasonably large. It does not require fast file I/O like ISE does, though an inexpensive SSD would make general system operation snappier. With that in mind, Ryzen is looking pretty sexy for this build. 1700X is the sweet spot but that would likely push you over the limit. Maybe a 1700, or wait for the six core Ryzen which happens in a few months.

I do recommend going up-market on this one if the value is justified. PCs used to go obsolete after about 18 months, but this is no longer the case. In the Ryzen review you'll notice that the performance chart includes a CPU from six years ago...build your rig with the knowlege that good components will still be good 5+ years from now.
 
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Re: Building a new PC for the first time.

Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:12 am

JayantBedwal wrote:
One of the most important software is Xilinx and it runs very well using all the threads available on the CPU. Like if 8 threads are available it can make use of all of them simultaneously.

If this is the case, then this looks like perfect case for Ryzen R7 1700 + el cheapo GPU like Radeon RX 460 or older models (e.g. if you need CUDA you need nVidia cards).
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