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ALiLPinkMonster
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:38 pm

So the time to purchase for this build is approaching, and I'm starting to second-guess my decision to go with an RX 580 and justifying it with the fact that I already have a Freesync monitor. Thing is, the monitor only goes to 75Hz. Do you guys think going with a 1060 6GB for a little less or maybe even a 1070 for only about $100 more would be worth dealing with the arguably negligible loss of 15 FPS? I mean, the games I play aren't the most graphically demanding. Overwatch will probably stay at 75 FPS a vast majority of the time regardless of GPU choice, and PUBG is... well, PUBG. It could probably benefit from VRR tech with the mid-range options, but throw a 1070 in the build and I don't see why it wouldn't run at a consistent 60 (or 75 for that matter) at 1080. Plus, a 1070 would open up the possibility of 2K and/or 144Hz down the road which I am very interested in.

What do you guys think?
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morphine
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:26 pm

If your budget can actually stretch to a 1070 I'd definitely take that option instead. Else I'd just stay where you are right now (580 8GB)
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:30 pm

Another thermal compound worth consideration is Arctic's MX-4. https://www.arctic.ac/us_en/mx-4.html

I'd stay away from applying any liquid metal TIM to your heatsink/heat spreader or else your going to have a heck of time cleaning it off.
Edit: I had Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra applied to the heatspreader, and heatsink. Ended up having to use sandpaper to clean off the spots it fused to both surfaces even with the nickel plating. Also ate off the lettering etched by Intel in the heatspreader.
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ALiLPinkMonster
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:00 pm

morphine wrote:
If your budget can actually stretch to a 1070 I'd definitely take that option instead. Else I'd just stay where you are right now (580 8GB)

Yeah, I'll just go that route. I've never had anything but mid-range GPU's, it will be nice to finally have something a little more on the high end side of things.

biffzinker wrote:
Another thermal compound worth consideration is Arctic's MX-4. https://www.arctic.ac/us_en/mx-4.html

I'd stay away from applying any liquid metal TIM to your heatsink/heat spreader or else your going to have a heck of time cleaning it off.
Edit: I had Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra applied to the heatspreader, and heatsink. Ended up having to use sandpaper to clean off the spots it fused to both surfaces even with the nickel plating. Also ate off the lettering etched by Intel in the heatspreader.

Yeah I was sorta kidding about the Liquid Ultra. Anything with that many different metals in it is going to be strictly for the most enthusiastic of enthusiasts. I've read some good things about MX-4 but I think I'll go with the Noctua stuff. It seems to be the new Silver 5.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:30 pm

I think it's the wrong time to upgrade as far as video cards are concerned, and perhaps the rest of the system as well.

Even if it's just a 1060 at MSRP, it's already more than a year old. It's useful life (as a current mid-performance video card) is less than half of what it should be, and it's likely that within 6-8 months the next version of the card is at least half-again the performance at the same price (as what they are currently).

Furthermore: the sales around Black Friday are 2 months away. (..and that's not just about video card prices.)


-it's somewhat ironic, but when you consider a 1060 6 GB at around $280 and the performance longevity, the same for the 1070 (at around $420), the card that makes the most sense at a "deal" price is the 1080:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIGABYTE-GeForc ... 2196209693

..and if you do that then you have to consider Vega 56 at its inflated price (considering your monitor):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerColor-Rade ... 466bfc7f32



..and still, for gaming - your money generally goes much further spending less on other components and more on the video card. :oops:


Damn, I'm such a killjoy. :P
 
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:28 am

I don't think the GPU market is going to recover from the crypto-mining return for a good while yet. As such, GPUs with 4GB of RAM or more have been more expensive since the spring and will continue to be expensive until well into 2018.

The new anomalies that could be considered "relatively" good value are now the 3GB 1060 models which have too little VRAM to be appealing to the cryptocurrency miners, and the 1080 which use higher-latency GDDR5X and also perform too poorly for Etherium mining to be cost-effective for them.

It means that the sweet spot is now a slightly underwhelming card that lacks the VRAM and GPU prowess to go beyond 1080p60 with any conviction, or a GTX 1080 which is a good match for high-refresh 3440x1440 gaming monitors. The 1060 6GB and Polaris cards are as overpriced as they are out of stock, which means 1080p high-refresh and budget 1440p gaming is effectively ruined for the budget-conscious in the foreseeable future.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:40 am

GeForce GTX1060 6GB or Radeon RX 580 8GB seems like a reasonably performing option for 75Hz 1080p. It is frustrating that the crazy miners have driven prices up as much as they have. Radeon RX Vega 56 has been restocked, but it is available only in bundles. The $500 bundle includes Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus ($60 value) and Prey ($60 value). Given how many people had to buy these two games to get the graphics card that they wanted, you can probably find steam codes available for a lot less than full retail on the secondary market.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:28 am

Personally, I wouldn't consider buying an RX Vega card until I can get one with a good cooler on it. Even then, it would be a hard sell to me considering the power consumption compared to their Nvidia counterparts. I've noticed certain categories of G-Sync/Freesync monitors are starting to close the gap between their prices (2560x1440 27" 144Hz/165Hz with IPS panels to be precise), so that is starting to become a non-issue for those who need a new monitor.

To be completely honest Chrispy, I've been thinking exactly that and I might just say to heck with it and go with a 1080. I've already decided to up the GPU budget by $100, what's another $100?
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:41 am

I did say in the latest System Guide that as weird as it sounds, the ~$500 GTX 1080 offers really good value, even if it's a serious chunk of change.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:28 am

ALiLPinkMonster wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't consider buying an RX Vega card until I can get one with a good cooler on it.


Actually, the Vega reference cooler is very good; Proper vapor chamber design with a full-coverage baseplate and a quality fan motor that you cannot hear over the air noise. As a GTX founders edition user, I think it's easily comparable to the Nvidia reference coolers. It's quieter (the way I run it) than the GTX 1080 and not much louder to my (rare) reference-cooled 970 which has a very low TDP for the class of cooler attached to it.

The problem with Vega is that the Vega 64 uses way too much power for air cooling and doesn't provide much more performance. It is NOT a GTX 1080 competitor no matter how hard AMD push the voltage and fan speeds to try an predend it is.

The RX Vega 56 on the other hand is excellent. It consistently outperforms a GTX 1070 with the stock BIOS and balanced driver profile and the tested power usage of 222W is well within what the reference cooler can handle quietly. AMD claim 210W but actual usage will vary from sample to sample and THG (who, surprisingly have the most in-depth and thorough GPU power testing on the net right now) measured 222W on their sample.

I actually use the second bios which has a lower power limit so if THG's sample is representative of mine, I'm getting 95% of the stock RX Vega 56 performance for about 40W lower power draw at 185W (tested here). 95% of the performance is still enough to beat a GTX 1070, over which the stock Vega 56 commands about a 12% lead.

I got lucky and pre-ordered my Vega 56 at MSRP - The GTX 1070 costs more than Vega 56 over here and is often out of stock or on pre-order. I wouldn't pay more for it than that though, because if you can afford more than that, you should probably spend your money on a GTX 1080 instead. It's better, quieter and more efficient than Vega, and the high-latency GDDR5X means that the Cryptocurrency miners aren't pushing the prices of them up. You can find them for $520 and they offer better peformance/$ than either the Vega 56 or 1070 once you go beyond about $430.

If a 185W, $399 GTX 1070 beater with Freesync sounds appealing, the Vega 56 at MSRP is a great buy. I'm particularly interested in swapping out my current monitor for that AOC Agon that TR reported on last week.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:26 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
If a 185W, $399 GTX 1070 beater with Freesync sounds appealing, the Vega 56 at MSRP is a great buy.

See, that's the thing. We have the opposite problem in the states. 1070's are in stock and going for between $400 and $450 for the reasonably priced ones, while the cheapest Vega 56 that's in stock that I can find is right at $500. Might as well just buy a 1080 and plan on upgrading my monitor sometime soon.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:29 pm

Ugh, yeah :\

Vega 56 vs 1080 is no contest. Literally none at all. I think it would turn even a Freesync monitor owner over to the dark side because a 1080 is going to be better even without VRR.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:42 pm

The 56 can be overclocked to about the performance of a 64, and the 64 is about the performance of the 1080 (game and res. dependent). It's not that big of a gap between the two, EXCEPT for power-use. (..which is ridiculous for an overclocked 56 or just a 64.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcprYE0oAFI

-though watch how hard the AMD cards take it in Assassins Creed, it's hilarious. :lol: (..poor driver optimization for that title. Hopefully time will improve that situation and others like it.)
 
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:33 am

I wouldn't overclock Vega; Even if you can match the 1080 it's too hot and noisy at those speeds and voltages.

Vega is only worth considering in the power-save profile 200W region, which puts it at 1070 performance and keeps it cool and quiet.

For all intents and purposes, Vega 64 is a failure as a gaming card that offers very little gain over the Vega 56 despite the extra heat/cost/noise.

The best thing you can do to a Vega 56 is crank the HBM2 up to Vega64 speeds. It practically closes the gap and doesn't hurt power consumption much.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:54 am

DrDominodog51 wrote:
Ryzen benefits greatly from increased memory frequency. Upping the ram to a 3200 MHz kit like this should provide a decent performance boost.

I agree. I've seen this firsthand with my own Ryzen build.
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Re: Everything look kosher with this build?

Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:51 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
I wouldn't overclock Vega; Even if you can match the 1080 it's too hot and noisy at those speeds and voltages.


This depends a lot on how often and "hard" you use it, and what you can tolerate with respect to noise and heat during that period of use. (..idle is of course still noisy, but not brutal.)

-if you are going "full bore" almost always, it's just asking for trouble. The occasional GTA V at higher settings, shouldn't be a problem for most people.


Like you though, I can't tolerate that level of noise (even for short gaming periods). :oops:

To me though, I wouldn't recommend Vega for 1070 performance, in that I wouldn't recommend the 1070: it's current-gen performance life has about 6 months (I *think*) remaining before the model is updated to "half" Volta, which includes not only an architectural improvement, but also a process improvement. (..that, and the 1080 is about the same price on a "deal" pricing basis as the Vega 56.)

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