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the_grinch
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Streaming PC Build

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:11 pm

I took some advice from my previous thread and have held off til now in hopes of sales on parts, but I'm about ready to purchase. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything here.

Goal
The goal of this build is to stream Fortnite gameplay. I am daily ranked in the top 100 to 1500 players worldwide (the nature of the game causes fluctuation). I have no misconceptions that streaming can be quite the undertaking, but figured it would be fun to give a shot.

Thought Process
I want to achieve as high of a refresh rate as possible while not compromising the video quality delivered to the stream. For this purpose I've chosen the 2700x. I know I won't achieve quite as high of a refresh rate as with an i7 or i9, but it's still gonna beat the heck out of my 4th gen i3 on a 60hz monitor. For budget purposes, a two PC stream setup is out of the question. If I like streaming enough, I may invest in that in the future. I have chosen fast RAM with tight timings to further help with gaming / streaming on a 2700x.

Parts List
CPU -- Ryzen 2700x
Cooler -- Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4
Thermal Compound -- Arctic MX4
Motherboard -- MSI B450 Tomahawk
Memory -- G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GB (2x8) 3200 (14-14-14-34)
Storage -- 500GB Samsung 970 EVO
Video Card -- EVGA GTX 1070 Ti 8GB FTW Ultra Silent
Case -- Fractal Design Define C ATX Mid Tower
PSU -- SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 650W
Monitor -- BenQ - ZOWIE XL2411P -- 1080p 144hz

Questions:
Video Card -- Should I get something beefier? My understanding for high refresh play is that the CPU is going to be the bottleneck. And again, my ONLY focus is Fortnite on 1080p. Will the 1070 Ti be enough to deliver the frames I need consistently?

Cooling -- Am I going overkill with the DH-15? I want to maintain as high as possible frames WHILE streaming good quality video -- so I figured any help I can get on the cooling side would help squeeze out the performance I need from the 2700x.
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:44 pm

How would the $410 8-core 8-thread Core i7-9700K match up against the $310 8-core 16-thread Ryzen7 2700X in your planned use?
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DancinJack
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:52 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
How would the $500 8-core 8-thread Core i7-9700K match up against the $309 8-core 16-thread Ryzen7 2700X in your planned use?

https://techreport.com/review/34192/int ... eviewed/13
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the_grinch
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:02 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
How would the $500 8-core 8-thread Core i7-9700K match up against the $309 8-core 16-thread Ryzen7 2700X in your planned use?


$200 is already a pretty big jump. How would suitable Mobo and cooling add to that price? I think it might push the price up a little too high... But maybe going with slightly cheaper RAM without those timings could help even out the price. And I suppose I'm already paying almost $100 for cooling. Hmmmm.
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:22 pm

the_grinch wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
How would the $500 8-core 8-thread Core i7-9700K match up against the $310 8-core 16-thread Ryzen7 2700X in your planned use?
$200 is already a pretty big jump. How would suitable Mobo and cooling add to that price? I think it might push the price up a little too high...
$139-10MIR for something like the ASRock Z390M Pro4
vs. $86 for the Gigabyte B450 Aorus M looks like another $53-10MIR.
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:45 pm

I would imagine a 1070 TI would be plenty for Fortnite at 1080P. That GPU should give acceptable frame rates for 1440, so at 1080 you should be fine.

For cooling, remember the 2700X comes with a cooler that's plenty as long as you aren't aggressively overclocking. You could try running with that cooler for a while and see how it works out. If it isn't enough, you can always add the Noctua later.
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synthtel2
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:31 pm

GPU recommended sysreq is a 660 or 7870, right? If that's a decently accurate representation of 1080p60 on high-ish settings, a 580 or 1060 6G should mostly do 1080p144 on the same settings. I'd probably drop to one of those and spend the difference on a 9700K with the same RAM.

If the sysreq and reality don't match up (it happens sometimes) and it does need something 1070-class, what you specced looks pretty good.
 
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:15 am

FYI, if you want the best quality stream for your viewers, what you actually want to do is achieve exactly 60fps with regular old vsync so that the 1080p60 H.264 encoder exactly matches your framerate and resolution.

You can also run at 120Hz with vsync, and it's still glassy smooth like 60Hz vsync streams, but based on my limited experience with streaming, it skips alternate frames rather than compositing them, so you'll potentially miss muzzle-flashes and single-frame events on the stream.
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the_grinch
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:21 am

Will the 8 threads of the 9700k be worse for encoding than the 16 of the 2700x? If so, I think 2700x really is the way to go for me in terms of price and performance. Fortnite isn't the most demanding title out there right now, and from what I've seen it's fairly easy to maintain 144hz (with some dips below occasionally) with that CPU.

Chrispy_ wrote:
FYI, if you want the best quality stream for your viewers, what you actually want to do is achieve exactly 60fps with regular old vsync so that the 1080p60 H.264 encoder exactly matches your framerate and resolution.

You can also run at 120Hz with vsync, and it's still glassy smooth like 60Hz vsync streams, but based on my limited experience with streaming, it skips alternate frames rather than compositing them, so you'll potentially miss muzzle-flashes and single-frame events on the stream.


That's good to know. However, the uncapped refresh rate is slightly more important than a slightly better stream quality for me.

Another note that I should have mentioned -- I'm okay dropping graphics quality in game. Honestly, Fortnite doesn't look THAT much better with quality. A lot of top Fortnite streamers have the settings turned mostly down, so people are used to watching that quality. Also, a lot of them encode at 900p while their native resolution is 1080p. I assume this is because it is still going to look great while using less resources and delivering the quality more consistently. I would probably do that as well.

EDIT: Just saw that the 2700x is on sale for $295 right now. Not sure if I can pass it up. I feel pretty good about it. As I mentioned in my first post, I'm giving streaming a shot, but I'm not quitting my day job. If it doesn't work out, I think I will still have a great PC that is a substantial upgrade from my current one. I'll see how I feel later if anyone has more input, but might end up pulling the trigger on buying it.
 
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:43 am

the_grinch wrote:
Will the 8 threads of the 9700k be worse for encoding than the 16 of the 2700x? If so, I think 2700x really is the way to go for me in terms of price and performance. Fortnite isn't the most demanding title out there right now, and from what I've seen it's fairly easy to maintain 144hz (with some dips below occasionally) with that CPU.

Chrispy_ wrote:
FYI, if you want the best quality stream for your viewers, what you actually want to do is achieve exactly 60fps with regular old vsync so that the 1080p60 H.264 encoder exactly matches your framerate and resolution.

You can also run at 120Hz with vsync, and it's still glassy smooth like 60Hz vsync streams, but based on my limited experience with streaming, it skips alternate frames rather than compositing them, so you'll potentially miss muzzle-flashes and single-frame events on the stream.


That's good to know. However, the uncapped refresh rate is slightly more important than a slightly better stream quality for me.

Another note that I should have mentioned -- I'm okay dropping graphics quality in game. Honestly, Fortnite doesn't look THAT much better with quality. A lot of top Fortnite streamers have the settings turned mostly down, so people are used to watching that quality. Also, a lot of them encode at 900p while their native resolution is 1080p. I assume this is because it is still going to look great while using less resources and delivering the quality more consistently. I would probably do that as well.

EDIT: Just saw that the 2700x is on sale for $295 right now. Not sure if I can pass it up. I feel pretty good about it. As I mentioned in my first post, I'm giving streaming a shot, but I'm not quitting my day job. If it doesn't work out, I think I will still have a great PC that is a substantial upgrade from my current one. I'll see how I feel later if anyone has more input, but might end up pulling the trigger on buying it.



Will the 8 threads of the 9700k be worse for encoding than the 16 of the 2700x?
No, according to the benchmarks.

If so, I think 2700x really is the way to go for me in terms of price and performance. Fortnite isn't the most demanding title out there right now, and from what I've seen it's fairly easy to maintain 144hz (with some dips below occasionally) with that CPU.
I have a 1070 at 120Hz/1440p, so I would say you are correct about the "some dips" stuff. The 9700/1070Ti would get rid of the "some dips" completely, if you want to pay the incremental cost.
 
the_grinch
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:53 am

Those benchmarks also only show the user side FPS. The threads that benefit encoding could affect the viewer side video quality from what I've seen from other reviews. Such as the link below. Although I know it doesn't fully compare since they are using an 8700k and pretty intense stream settings when they noticed the difference. Also, I'm not using 1440p in this build, so I will probably see less dips at 1080p, and not the kind of dips that would bother me enough to spend over $250 to alleviate.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3 ... ?showall=1
 
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:52 am

the_grinch wrote:
Just saw that the 2700x is on sale for $295 right now. Not sure if I can pass it up.


I would jump on that too. Real-time encoding at 1080p60 with that CPU shouldn't be a signficant burden.

Plus, your GPU should be able to offload the stream anyway---if your software supports it, of course. GeForce Experience is free and will stream to Twitch, but I have no idea how good it is.
 
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:08 pm

the_grinch wrote:
Will the 8 threads of the 9700k be worse for encoding than the 16 of the 2700x? If so, I think 2700x really is the way to go for me in terms of price and performance. Fortnite isn't the most demanding title out there right now, and from what I've seen it's fairly easy to maintain 144hz (with some dips below occasionally) with that CPU.


This is going to depend on the encoding settings you want to use. I've found that the Ryzen 7 2700X is about the entry point for using x264 "fast" when encoding 1080p60 without dropping frames, while the i7-9700K wasn't up to the job (at least with Far Cry 5, which should have similar CPU-scaling characteristics to Unreal Engine 4 and Fortnite).

At 6000 Kbps, which is the maximum bit rate I've found Twitch will accept as a non-affiliated or partnered streamer, you will probably be able to use "fast" with the 2700X if you want to while the 9700K may not let you take that extra step up. While higher bit rates might be interesting data points for pro streamers, you have to realize that without reliable access to Twitch transcode, you may overwhelm your audience's Internet connections, PCs, or both with high-bit-rate streams.

The reason we don't consider viewer-side performance in our streaming tests is that I take a pass-fail approach with it rather than trying to parse log files. If I see a CPU start dropping frames then it fails at those settings.

I don't think you can go wrong with the 2700X as a value-priced entry to same-PC streaming if you insist on using x264 as your encoder, in any case.
 
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:19 pm

I would argue that the single most important thing that you include in your budget is a second monitor. You can get away with a lower quality stream, but it's going to be a real pain to try to do everything on one screen.
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:20 pm

The 2700X just happens to be on the front page deals post today, too: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 00524&SID=
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the_grinch
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:55 pm

Jeff Kampman wrote:
This is going to depend on the encoding settings you want to use. I've found that the Ryzen 7 2700X is about the entry point for using x264 "fast" when encoding 1080p60 without dropping frames, while the i7-9700K wasn't up to the job (at least with Far Cry 5, which should have similar CPU-scaling characteristics to Unreal Engine 4 and Fortnite).

At 6000 Kbps, which is the maximum bit rate I've found Twitch will accept as a non-affiliated or partnered streamer, you will probably be able to use "fast" with the 2700X if you want to while the 9700K may not let you take that extra step up. While higher bit rates might be interesting data points for pro streamers, you have to realize that without reliable access to Twitch transcode, you may overwhelm your audience's Internet connections, PCs, or both with high-bit-rate streams.

The reason we don't consider viewer-side performance in our streaming tests is that I take a pass-fail approach with it rather than trying to parse log files. If I see a CPU start dropping frames then it fails at those settings.

I don't think you can go wrong with the 2700X as a value-priced entry to same-PC streaming if you insist on using x264 as your encoder, in any case.

Great information. Thanks a ton!

DeadOfKnight wrote:
I would argue that the single most important thing that you include in your budget is a second monitor. You can get away with a lower quality stream, but it's going to be a real pain to try to do everything on one screen.


I do have a second monitor, which is my ASUS PB258Q (1440p IPS). Although I've heard some people have experienced issues when using 2 monitors with different resolutions while streaming using OBS. Not sure if that was just user error in not setting up the stream properly. I figured I would try to make it work and determine if I need a second 1080p monitor from there.
 
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:41 pm

the_grinch wrote:
Will the 8 threads of the 9700k be worse for encoding than the 16 of the 2700x? If so, I think 2700x really is the way to go for me in terms of price and performance. Fortnite isn't the most demanding title out there right now, and from what I've seen it's fairly easy to maintain 144hz (with some dips below occasionally) with that CPU.
Jeff Kampman wrote:
This is going to depend on the encoding settings you want to use. I've found that the Ryzen 7 2700X is about the entry point for using x264 "fast" when encoding 1080p60 without dropping frames, while the i7-9700K wasn't up to the job (at least with Far Cry 5, which should have similar CPU-scaling characteristics to Unreal Engine 4 and Fortnite).

With the FC5 test results, then, it looks like the 2700X effectively gives more priority to the stream and the 9700K gives more to the game.

the_grinch wrote:
Another note that I should have mentioned -- I'm okay dropping graphics quality in game. Honestly, Fortnite doesn't look THAT much better with quality. A lot of top Fortnite streamers have the settings turned mostly down, so people are used to watching that quality. Also, a lot of them encode at 900p while their native resolution is 1080p. I assume this is because it is still going to look great while using less resources and delivering the quality more consistently. I would probably do that as well.

Definitely a 1060 6G then. 1070 Ti is just overkill (no 580 because Unreal tends to like Nvidia a lot more than AMD).

the_grinch wrote:
EDIT: Just saw that the 2700x is on sale for $295 right now. Not sure if I can pass it up. I feel pretty good about it. As I mentioned in my first post, I'm giving streaming a shot, but I'm not quitting my day job. If it doesn't work out, I think I will still have a great PC that is a substantial upgrade from my current one. I'll see how I feel later if anyone has more input, but might end up pulling the trigger on buying it.

It's tough to go wrong with that.
 
the_grinch
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Re: Streaming PC Build

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:33 pm

Well, I bought the 2700x. Turns out I had a $15 off coupon on Amazon and I earn 5% at Amazon, so heyyy... it's basically a 2700x for $266+tax.

Now to buy the rest of the thing! Hoping for some better deals over the next week or so.

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