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l3reak · Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:10 pm

Well, my current rig, and old emachines 1.3 Celeron (blechh) is on its last legs, so I need a new machine ASAP and don't feel like waiting a month or two for Conroe.

I absolutely want a dual core, and I know an X2 3800+ would probably be better than the 930, but I just can't afford the extra $100. I suppose if I could save $100 on RAM and the mobo I'd go to AMD. Is that possible?

Here's the build:
CPU: Intel Pentium D 930 Presler 800MHz FSB LGA 775 Dual Core Processor Model BX80553930 $194
Motherboard: ECS C19-A SLI (1.0A) Socket T (LGA 775) NVIDIA nForce4 SLI XE ATX $80
GPU: SAPPHIRE 100143L Radeon X1300PRO 256MB GDDR2 PCI Express x16 $86
RAM: OCZ Gold Series 512MB 240-Pin DDR2 667 SDRAM 4-4-4-8 $52x2=$104
PSU: ENERMAX Liberty ELT400AWT ATX12V 400W $79
DVD: NEC 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE/ATAPI Model ND-3550A $36
Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black $45
Total: $624

I'm going to use some of my HDDs from my current computer, they're perfectly good 7200RPM IDE dealies. I'm crazy for GBs, so I really want to be able to have at LEAST 3 IDE hard drives in that case. It has space, right? I don't have the money for an LCD, and have a keyboard + mouse in the mail.

Anyway, I'm not a huge gamer, but I'd like to be able to get about 30fps on MMOs, last-gen and fairly recent games. I don't expect this to be able to run Oblivion that well, or anything, but it'd be nice to be able to game a bit. I know that video card is pretty junky, but I plan on upgrading to something nicer in a few months when I get some more cash. Is there another card in the $75-$100 range I should be considering? Should I spend the extra $13 now to move up to the X1600pro, or is that not a considerable boost?

Is that PSU good enough? It's only 400w, but it's running dual 12v 20Amp rails, although I think they max out at 30amps total. Is dual12v really important? Suggestions on alternative power supplies welcome.

I'm also a little worried about whether this chip is going to melt a hole in the case with the standard HSF. I don't really plan on overclocking much, if at all, so do I need a better fan? If there's something great out there for $15-$30 I'd be interested.

Any other comments welcome. Thanks!

thecoldanddarkone · Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:14 pm

Is that the most you can afford is my first question? The second the ecs, do you really want an intel sli nforce 4 motherboard?
ram looks good, processor as well. ohh for an extra 24 dollars if its possible I would get the 7600 gs, if its possible, don't outstreach yourself though.

Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:30 pm

You have waited for so long, might as well a while longer. The $214 E6400 Core 2 Duo should be what you shoot for now. Only a couple months away.

thecoldanddarkone · Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:32 pm

for the psu I would go with one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817103457
enermax 485 noisetaker series,
it has 32 amps and is 76 dollars right now 10 dollar instant, (of course this could die at any time)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817103464
33 amps on the 12 volt, this is a good power supply my friend has it and it is running a 3.6 d0 processor.

he does have a point however if you can't wait then get a system right now. (actually that's the boat I am in

its also why I got a used system...)

l3reak · Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:52 pm

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
Is that the most you can afford is my first question? The second the ecs, do you really want an intel sli nforce 4 motherboard?

Thanks a lot for the responses, coldanddarkone.

I'm on a budget here, so, yes, I'd really like to try to keep it around that price. I suppose I don't NEED an sli-compatible mobo, but I do like to keep my options open down the road. I actually don't know much about motherboard chipsets and their pros and cons. What would be a better chipset for me? Something intel, I guess? Or is it just that the nforce 4 really only shines when you have an nvidia card? Really, with the motherboard, I just want something that a year or two down the road will still be able to support new stuff that's coming out... ram, video cards, HDDs, etc.

As far as the 7600gs goes, I'd rather just buy something really cheap that'll give me great video playback now and save up for a nice card down the line. I mostly just want to be able to play Spore when that comes out, but no one really knows what the requirements will be.

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
he does have a point however if you can't wait then get a system right now. (actually that's the boat I am in its also why I got a used system...)

Yeah, my video card for my machine died, and using the integrated onboard video is killing me... I can't use it for 90% of what I use the computer for - even flash-intensive websites are hit and miss. I really don't plan on basically going without a computer for a month or two. Theoretically, I could buy the X1300 to replace my old computer's card and wait for conroe - but my old computer doesn't even have AGP, let alone PCIe, so I'd have to buy a PCI card.

I had looked at those other PSUs you recommended, but wasn't sure if they were better than the Liberty, but if you recommend the Noisetaker I think I'll buy it. It's a really nice color, too, heh.

thecoldanddarkone · Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:59 pm

I had that noisetakers smaller brother and it was a good psu. The liberty is a good psu, however the problem lies in the fact that although it is good, its price probably comes from being modular, functionality is nice, but its not everything.

I think the x1600pro/7600gs I mean for 13 more dollars you get alot more performance.

Ohh one more thing, sli is nice, however most INTEL sli boards don't overclock very well from what I have seen.

Do you prefer really stable or do you prefer semistable which for me would be about 6 hours of dual prime for semistable.

I am looking for a good mobo right now, its hard all I ever hear about anymore is amd mobos, so bear with em.

l3reak · Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:31 pm

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
I think the x1600pro/7600gs I mean for 13 more dollars you get alot more performance.

Ohh one more thing, sli is nice, however most INTEL sli boards don't overclock very well from what I have seen.

Do you prefer really stable or do you prefer semistable which for me would be about 6 hours of dual prime for semistable.

Maybe I'll just go for the nicer card after all... I'll think about it. Semi-stable would be fine for me, if by that you mean 6 hours, and I'm getting some extra performance in return.

thecoldanddarkone · Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:41 pm

I have been trying to make sure the ecs supports presler, however the ecs site keeps coming up with errors :evil:

Alot of nvidia sli intel boards don't support presler that is why I am cautious about nvidia sli boards.

I finally got into the website I believe it does support it. I supports the 920, 940, 950 and xe according to the website I don't see why it wouldn't work with the 930.

I would try it for its price, I mean you really cannot beat it.

thecoldanddarkone · Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:56 pm

talking about motherboard
If you have a problem with it you can easily send it back to newegg.

it doesn't have one of these
** This item is warranted through the product manufacturer only.

you could save some money using these dd667 4-4-4-12 $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231050

OCZ Gold Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 667 (PC2 5400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail
95.99 regular 80.99 after mir
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820227046

l3reak · Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:17 pm

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
OCZ Gold Series 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 667 (PC2 5400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail
95.99 regular 80.99 after mir
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820227046

Wow, good find! That'll save me about $20, and that's not arbitrary for me. I think I'll stick with the ECS unless I find something better, it should really support presler.

lex-ington · Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:19 pm

ECS isn't the shady company they used to be. Somewhat lik OCZ.

The 7600GS works quite well. THe spacing on the board will be good for the passively cooled version as well. I have one and love it.

The Liberty PSU is very nce and quiet.

With the 7600GS passive and the Liberty, my system is not audible at all. But then again, I do have a Thermaltake Blue Orbe CPU cooler as well.

Really the only thing to watch is the chipset cooling fan. For some reason these fans have a way of crapping out on you when you least expect it.

EDIT: Nice case. Really nice case.

thecoldanddarkone · Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:26 pm

Thats what I hear, I may even have to try the board...

. I know it supports presler (I got on to the cpu support page) unlike so many other intel nforce mobos.

the noisetaker wasn't loud that I had (or my friends). It was pretty quite in my opinion, some people have complained about it though. (although, I have heard people complain about just about everything on forums so, it doesn't mean very much at times)

edit. for the case you picked out a pretty good one for price. GJ

lex-ington · Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:39 pm

If you would like a different look at the Liberty and case - I put some pics here

I think that the number of negative posts about a certain product compared to how much of that product was sold is the key. Take the IBM "Deathstar" for example.

thecoldanddarkone · Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:41 pm

I think that the number of negative posts about a certain product compared to how much of that product was sold is the key. Take the IBM "Deathstar" for example.[/quote]

Definitely true,

tu2thepoo · Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:04 pm

For the setup you listed, I'd wager that one of the cheaper Antec towers (with included PSU) would be fine. I've worked with this one before, it's a very nice case for the money. And, really, unless you're doing SLI and a crazy amount of overclocking, it'll probably be good enough to handle a nicer video card later.

And if you're set on upgrading the video eventually... I've got a PCI-E Radeon x300 that I could sell you for cheap. It came with my older brother's computer, and played FFXI and WoW pretty well.

Vrock · Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:55 pm

Nobody else thinks it's odd that he's buying an SLI board and ATi graphics card? That doesn't make any sense.

thecoldanddarkone · Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:14 pm

hey I suggested the 7600gs, really he wants to replace the card later later, it doesn't really matter in that case.

lordT · Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:18 pm

Vrock wrote:
Nobody else thinks it's odd that he's buying an SLI board and ATi graphics card? That doesn't make any sense.

I don't think it matters in a single card config

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:25 pm

If Conroe really performs like it is, it will own the 930 completely. So really, borrow/beg/buy a cheapass v-card (eBay will be a good place to look for old Radeon 9200 or something) for now if you are really running into issues.

If you want till Conroe, then even if you are still getting a 930 it will be substantially cheaper.

And yeah, forget about SLI, it's just a gimmick, especially if you are in the so-called "buy one now, get one (much) later" group. Just stick with single cards and you should be fine.

Vrock · Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:33 pm

lordtottuu wrote:
Vrock wrote:
Nobody else thinks it's odd that he's buying an SLI board and ATi graphics card? That doesn't make any sense.

I don't think it matters in a single card config

I think you might have missed the point.

Why is he buying an SLI motherboard if he's going to put an ATi card in it? That extra slot does nothing for him with an ATi card...

lordT · Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:57 pm

Vrock wrote:
lordtottuu wrote:
Vrock wrote:
Nobody else thinks it's odd that he's buying an SLI board and ATi graphics card? That doesn't make any sense.

I don't think it matters in a single card config

I think you might have missed the point.

Why is he buying an SLI motherboard if he's going to put an ATi card in it? That extra slot does nothing for him with an ATi card...

Oops.. Missed reading the fact that he wanted to do multi-gpu later.

So mobos with nvidia chipsets is a no-no if you want to go crossfire and vice-versa. God!! I hate them when they restrict choices :evil:

l3reak · Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:15 am

Flying Fox wrote:
If Conroe really performs like it is, it will own the 930 completely. So really, borrow/beg/buy a cheapass v-card (eBay will be a good place to look for old Radeon 9200 or something) for now if you are really running into issues.

If you want till Conroe, then even if you are still getting a 930 it will be substantially cheaper.

And yeah, forget about SLI, it's just a gimmick, especially if you are in the so-called "buy one now, get one (much) later" group. Just stick with single cards and you should be fine.

Arlight, from what you guys are saying, SLI is something I can ignore. Maybe I'll follow your advice and just get a really cheap video card for now. Meanwhile, the ECS 945G-M3 seems to be the non-sli ECS alternative of the C19-A, and it even has onboard firewire. Yet it seems to have a lot less expandibility, less overclocking capability (although the C19-A is admittedly sparse there, too) and costs an extra $5. The whole 5 stars rating with 140 votes of the C19-A on newegg makes it very attractive, too, and the reviews I've read sounded good to me.

If any of you have any suggestions for an alternate motherboard for my set-up under $110, I'd be happy to hear them.

Oh, and tu2thepoo... I dunno, is 350w really enough to handle intel chips and a nice card these days? Not to mention it seems that a lot of people are decrying Antec these days.

Vrock · Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:15 am

lordtottuu wrote:
Oops.. Missed reading the fact that he wanted to do multi-gpu later.

Well, he didn't say that. All the more confusing as to why he's paying for SLI.

lordtottuu wrote:
So mobos with nvidia chipsets is a no-no if you want to go crossfire and vice-versa.

Yes.

tu2thepoo · Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:08 am

l3reak wrote:
Oh, and tu2thepoo... I dunno, is 350w really enough to handle intel chips and a nice card these days? Not to mention it seems that a lot of people are decrying Antec these days.

I dunno, I've never had any problem with Antec's products. Most of the people I've seen who prefer other brands are the people who're spending hundreds of dollars to stay on the bleeding edge of overclocking.

Personally, I really don't care about cable management or how pretty pretty my case looks inside, so modular PSUs don't really have any appeal to me. Odds are, unless you're mildly OCD, you're going to have other things blocking airflow anyway, so that argument doesn't hold any water with me.

As for power, I would bet even money that it'd be fine, even if you get a fairly high-end card later (again, unless you plan on overclocking a lot). My brother runs a pretty power-hungry P4 system and a Geforce 6800GS using the stock power supply that came with his HP system (I wouldn't put it at any more than 350w).

Jawbreaker · Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:16 am

You forgot the fusion reactor to power that Pentium D :wink:

Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:02 am

Jawbreaker wrote:
You forgot the fusion reactor to power that Pentium D

That's unfair, the OP wanted the Presler 9xx, not Smithfields. They are 65nm and run cooler.

l3reak: I am not entirely sure if onboard video is your problem, you may have just run into those resource hogging (read: bad) Flashes that the Celeron 1.3GHz (Tualatin Celeron?) can't handle. Getting a discrete PCI card may or may not help with your problem. If you are looking at a PCI card, it starts from about $30 new. If you have a friend that has an old one definitely borrow it a bit.

July 23 is the day, so it is really not that far out. Or if you really can't wait, a couple of weeks will buy you a price cut, with yet another one coming on 7.23.

l3reak · Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:15 pm

I didn't know there was another price drop coming up before Conroe, so I'll definitely at least wait for that. Heh, I've been noticing newegg drop the price by about $4 or $5 on the 930 every week or so anyway, regardless of official pricing.

Also, my computer worked fine for playing xvid, old games, and even did a decent job of h.264, along with the flashy websites before I lost my PCI GPU, so I think a new one would help.

lordT · Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:57 pm

For the next month or so, we are just going to ask you prospective system builders to wait out for Conroe unless you need a system immediatly. Conroe's launch is going to bring more powerful chips at lower costs and going to reduce prices of current gen chips in a massive manner

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