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Peffse
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P35 finally released. Now... what to do?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:09 pm

I've been waiting for the P35 for a little bit now. I have an old 865PERL w/ Netburst P4 HTT... and it's going to be a welcomed upgrade.
This is not my first build, but, I have a few questions that I cannot answer myself...
RAM ratio has been a tricky concept for me. I could never understand the 1:1 ratio thing even when it was explained to me in plain english. Here is my try anyhow: I understand the new Penryn family processor is going to have a 1333 FSB, and the P35 is going to have DDR2 and DDR3 depending on the maker of the board.. do I want DDR3-1333 or do I purchase dual DDR2-667? Are those two types the correct RAM that I would want?

The next thing, the currently released P35 does not support quad core. Does that even matter? Is there a foreseeable future for quad core consumer systems that a dual core could not achieve?
EDIT: it looks like there is conflicting information on this... some say it can support quad, some say it can't. I still need to know if it even matters.

Another thing, the current P35 I'm looking at, Intel's own DP35DPM, only has a single x16 PCIe. From my understanding, Intel only supports Crossfire configurations anyhow, so that means that I would not have any chance at SLI 8800GTSs at any point in the future. So it wouldn't matter that it only has one x16. Should I look at another board? I can't imagine myself purchasing two 8800GTSs right now, but maybe in the distant future when I'm at the same point that I'm at right now, I could boost performance of my current machine by buying a clearance 8800GTS.

I've kinda come to a grinding halt without this information. It's not really critical, because Penryn doesn't seem like it's going to come out anytime soon, but DDR2 RAM pricing is at an all time low, so I'd prefer to get it cheap while I can.
 
JustAnEngineer
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Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:21 pm

Buy the fastest and highest density RAM that is reasonably priced. That currently means PC2-6400 (DDR2-800) 1GB DIMMs, unless you need more memory than your motherboard can hold when populated with 1MB DIMMs, in which case the 50% premium for higher density 2GB DIMMs may be worthwhile.

2x1GB:
267MHz PC2-4200 DDR2-533: $72
333MHz PC2-5300 DDR2-667: $64 :D
400MHz PC2-6400 DDR2-800: $83 8)
533MHz PC2-8500 DDR2-1066: $155 or $170-$40MIR
575MHz PC2-9200 DDR2-1150: $229

2x2GB:
333MHz PC2-5300 DDR2-667: $200 or $265-$75MIR
400MHz PC2-6400 DDR2-800: $245 or $275-$35MIR
533MHz PC2-8500 DDR2-1066: $690 :o

Working with an Intel chipset, try to choose RAM that runs at the specified 1.8V, rather than some pre-overlocked stuff that requires scary high voltages just to achieve its claimed base performance rating.
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Peffse
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Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:43 pm

That whole 1:1 thing doesn't make a bit of difference? So the $20 difference between a DDR2-800 kit and DDR2-667 kit is worth it?

Bah, this is the reason why I never understand the whole concept.






And what about the SLI video cards and quad support? What advice can be given on those? is it worth paying more for those capabilities?
 
JustAnEngineer
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Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:42 pm

Peffse wrote:
So the $20 difference between a DDR2-800 kit and DDR2-667 kit is worth it?
Unless your budget is extremely tight, I believe that it is a good idea to get the faster memory. Faster RAM will make a small improvement in performance at stock speed. It will also make it easier to overclock your processor. (e.g.: Set your processor's divider to the one for DDR2-667, then crank up the processor's speed by 20%, and you'll be running your DDR2-800 at its rated speed.) Finally, the faster RAM is more likely to be re-usable in the future. The slow stuff will be obsolete soon enough.
What about the SLI video cards and quad support? What advice can be given on those? is it worth paying more for those capabilities?
SLI is a gimmick. It is better to have one great graphics card than two mediocre ones. I do believe that it is worthwhile to have a second PCIe slot that can physically accept another card. There may be some worthwhile PCIe x1 and x4 cards on the market eventually, and you'll have a slot for one if you want it.
Are you looking at the P5K?
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Klyith
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Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:51 pm

Peffse wrote:
That whole 1:1 thing doesn't make a bit of difference?
It makes so little difference that it's not worth chasing after.

So the $20 difference between a DDR2-800 kit and DDR2-667 kit is worth it?

Well, if you are on a budget and would benefit from saving that $20, then no. DDR2-800 has very little improvement over 667 in games or other real world stuff, only synthetic benchmarks improve. But $20 isn't much to most people, and it does make overclocking a little easier.
 
Flying Fox
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Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:11 pm

Right now the whole thing about getting DDR2-800 is for overclocking room. Official 1333FSB means you will need dual channel DDR2-667 to match it. So if you want to take it further up to 1600FSB (or 400FSB, depending on whether you use the effective or the base clock number) and may be slightly beyond, then you need to get DDR2-800.

JAE said it best about SLI. You really don't want me to get into another rant on SLI. Search the forums if you really want to know.
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Krogoth
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Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:14 pm

P35/X38 = 915/925X redux
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Flying Fox
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Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:16 pm

Krogoth wrote:
P35/X38 = 915/925X redux
Care to elaborate? "Proper" CrossFire (not funny x16/x4 business) support is a big differentiator AFAICT.
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Peffse
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:10 pm

ok, so I should be fine with a single x16 then? good, this motherboard is looking sweeter by the second.

But what about quad core support? Whether or not the board supports it, should it be something that I look into?
With my current Pentium 4, I kinda got the raw end of the deal... I invested into a socket 478 w/ AGP, leaving me with no upgrade path within a year. I don't want something like that happening again.
 
Flying Fox
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:18 pm

Disclaimer: no one can stop Intel from pulling the carpet underneath and screw everything, so this is just a best guess.

The P35 chipset has Wolfdale/Yorkdale (Penryn is actually the codename for the mobile part) support and official 1333FSB. I don't see any reports of plans to bump the FSB further yet, but with overclocking you should be able to reach the higher FSB anyways. So barring a complete whipe-out of DDR2 RAM sticks overnight, you should be pretty good upgrade-wise for the next year.
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Krogoth
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:38 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Krogoth wrote:
P35/X38 = 915/925X redux
Care to elaborate? "Proper" CrossFire (not funny x16/x4 business) support is a big differentiator AFAICT.


It is completely underwhelming to what it is replacing.

1333Mhz is a 100% marketing gimmick. P965 had "unofficial" 1333Mhz since its depute. DDR3 has no advantage for desktop platforms, while it carries a hefty premium. P3x series has no full 16x/16x PCIe slots like Nforce 680 and AMD's 690.
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Peffse
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:30 pm

Krogoth wrote:
It is completely underwhelming to what it is replacing.

I fail to see how it is completely underwhelming. I know very little about market trends, but I can say the reasons I chose it instead of an older P965.

Krogoth wrote:
1333Mhz is a 100% marketing gimmick. P965 had "unofficial" 1333Mhz since its depute.

Sure, P965 had an unofficial 1333MHz, but I don't overclock, nor would I want to ATM. I'd prefer to buy a Penryn family processor with true 1333MHz with a true 1333MHz FSB than gamble my skills with overclocking and killing my components. Seeing as the P35 is not the enthusiast motherboard it probably isn't a problem. IIRC the X38 is the one targeted at enthusiasts, of which I have absolutely no info on.

Krogoth wrote:
DDR3 has no advantage for desktop platforms, while it carries a hefty premium.

I agree it has no advantage... for now. As was the case with DDR2. Once the timings get better and the clocks get higher, everyone will be using DDR3 on the boards and the prices will drop. That's why I'm hesitant on buying this board. I said the same thing 3 years ago when I bought my D865PERL, then everyone moved onto DDR2 while I was stuck with DDR1.

Krogoth wrote:
P3x series has no full 16x/16x PCIe slots like Nforce 680 and AMD's 690.

The P35 board that I posted, DP35DPM, has a single x16 slot and four x1 slots... Unless I'm completely getting what you posted wrong.
Also, I can understand the PCIe situation for the board I chose. Nvidia doesn't allow anything but an Nvidia board to have SLI, and Crossfire is an AMD tech now. So how can Intel support either?


One last thing, what is the main difference between my D865PERL and a P965? CPU architecture, FSB speed, New RAM type, new GPU connection standard. The only thing that the P35 is missing is the GPU connection standard.




Nobody answered my question about Quad Core though... is it worth supporting for the future?
 
JustAnEngineer
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:53 pm

I would not buy an Intel motherboard. ASUS is my first choice for motherboards.
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Peffse
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:58 pm

Why not Intel? I have had no problems whatsoever from their board previously...
 
Flying Fox
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:59 pm

Peffse wrote:
Why not Intel? I have had no problems whatsoever from their board previously...
Enthusiasts usually engage in tweaking and overclocking their systems, and Intel boards do not provide that.
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Peffse
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:03 pm

Ah, well... I've never had a need to overclock at all. Last time I attempted, I ended up bricking a 9800pro.

It also looks like there is a $100 difference between the Intel board I chose and the next best ASUS board. I'm not really sure about paying an extra $100...
 
Flying Fox
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:11 pm

Peffse wrote:
It also looks like there is a $100 difference between the Intel board I chose and the next best ASUS board. I'm not really sure about paying an extra $100...
Newegg search just sucked. The "next best" Asus P35 board is the P5K vanilla. Still more expensive than the Intel board, but not by a crazy $100+.
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Peffse
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:13 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Newegg search just sucked. The "next best" Asus P35 board is the P5K vanilla. Still more expensive than the Intel board, but not by a crazy $100+.

err... that spec sheet doesn't state it supports 1333MHz FSB. That's why I skipped it.
 
Flying Fox
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:07 pm

Peffse wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
Newegg search just sucked. The "next best" Asus P35 board is the P5K vanilla. Still more expensive than the Intel board, but not by a crazy $100+.

err... that spec sheet doesn't state it supports 1333MHz FSB. That's why I skipped it.

Newegg's spec sucked also.

Asus' own website wrote:
Front Side Bus: 1333 / 1066 / 800 MHz
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Peffse
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Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:13 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Newegg's spec sucked also.

Asus' own website wrote:
Front Side Bus: 1333 / 1066 / 800 MHz

Thank you very much. That seems like a very viable option for an additional $40. I'll have to consider that when I make my purchase.

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