Personal computing discussed

Moderator: JustAnEngineer

 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

New futureproof C2Q rig: Please advise!

Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:37 pm

Hi Guys,

It's upgrade time! 8) and my old Athlon XP-M with ATI 9800 finally are going to retire. I would be grateful for you feedback on my planned C2Q new rig. (Ahh, I am sorry AMD :cry: I was waiting sooooo long for Phenom... Perhaps next time...)

What I plan to use it for:
- moderate gaming (no plans for SLI nor crossfire :P)
- home media hub (including some media coding)
- a bit of productivity including amateur photography and web design

Longetivity
I hope it will stay for some years to come. My understanding is quad core is more future proof, although it may be slightly less efficient right now than dual core (especially in gaming).
I also would like to have some upgrade path:
- Possibly will upgrade to new Peryn CPU in the future
- If necessary upgrade to 8GB RAM (that's why I get 2x2GB now)
- Possibly may upgrade GPU

Cooling and OC
As you see I plan beefy cooling, but that's mainly to minimize the noise with as little and slow fans as possible. I may be trying to overclock it but that not my primary goal, however it may be a nice extra bonus.
I am a bit dubious about RAM, are they matched OK? Will it allow moderate OC?

Existing hardware
As I upgrade I will carry over following parts:
- 24" 1920 LCD
- Corsair 520HX PSU (should be enough, right?)
- Plextor DVD burner
- Seagate 7200.9 250GB HDD

WHAT I PLAN TO BUY

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P (rev 3.3)

CPU: Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 2,40 GHz

RAM: (which do you recommend? Is 800Mhz enough?)
- GeIL Dual 2x 2GB DDR2 800 MHz
- Corsair Twin2X DDR2 2x 2GB 800MHz CL5-5-5-18
- PDP Patriot Dual 2x 2GB DDR2 800 MHz CL5

HDD: Caviar SE-16 750 GB WD7500AAKS 16MB cache SATA-II (My understanding is Caviar RE is not worth extra cash)
GPU: GeForce 8800 GT 512MB
OS: VISTA Home Premium OEM 64Bit (I am willing to give it a try, worst case I'll get back to XP)

CPU Cooling: Thermalright IFX-14
GPU Cooling: Accelero S1

So what do you think guys? Is it well balanced?
What would you change without much more budget?

Thanks for help!
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25462
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Re: New futureproof C2Q rig: Please advise!

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:00 pm

Overall: very good, definitely did your homework! :)

Klopsik206 wrote:
What I plan to use it for:
- moderate gaming (no plans for SLI nor crossfire :P)
Why can't more people be like you? /rhetorical

Klopsik206 wrote:
- home media hub (including some media coding)
I foresee needing more HDDs down the road?

Klopsik206 wrote:
Longetivity
I hope it will stay for some years to come.
Not going to happen sorry. Nehalem is end of this year. :o

The best you can hope for is to upgrade to the last Penryn, more on that later.

Klopsik206 wrote:
My understanding is quad core is more future proof, although it may be slightly less efficient right now than dual core (especially in gaming).
Less efficient as in the games are not using the extra cores right now? Well, they will eventually so as a "future proof" thing and if budget allows, the quad is the one to get.

Klopsik206 wrote:
- Possibly will upgrade to new Peryn CPU in the future
If you are thinking that, then I would suggest you get a cheap (or relatively cheap) dual core, like a E2xxx or a E4xxx, then upgrade to a Yorkfield quad (Q9xxx) after Nehalem is released, the later you can stretch this out the better. I am thinking Q1/Q2 2009.

Klopsik206 wrote:
- Corsair 520HX PSU (should be enough, right?)
Should be plenty.

Klopsik206 wrote:
- Plextor DVD burner
- Seagate 7200.9 250GB HDD
All PATA? Remember modern boards only have 1 IDE channels for 2 devices, and it is not built into the chipset either.

Klopsik206 wrote:
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P (rev 3.3)
If you want to save some money and will not be using 6 SATA devices or RAID, then the DS3L is the cheaper version.

Klopsik206 wrote:
CPU: Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 2,40 GHz
I can see a E4500 or the E2160/E2180 "mildly overclocked" to 3GHz holding be enough to hold you over for a year or so, before upgrading to a Q9xxx quad.

Klopsik206 wrote:
RAM: (which do you recommend? Is 800Mhz enough?)
- GeIL Dual 2x 2GB DDR2 800 MHz
- Corsair Twin2X DDR2 2x 2GB 800MHz CL5-5-5-18
- PDP Patriot Dual 2x 2GB DDR2 800 MHz CL5
Whichever is cheapest I guess?

Klopsik206 wrote:
HDD: Caviar SE-16 750 GB WD7500AAKS 16MB cache SATA-II (My understanding is Caviar RE is not worth extra cash)
It will depend on how much you value extra write speeds. The RE2 YS (instead of KS) version has been shown to write better, but at a higher noise.

Klopsik206 wrote:
So what do you think guys? Is it well balanced?
Yes it is pretty good. Won't win any speed demon awards, but it is definitely no slouch.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
ucisilentbob
Gerbil XP
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:58 pm
Location: Garden Grove, California
Contact:

Re: New futureproof C2Q rig: Please advise!

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:25 pm

Klopsik206 wrote:
CPU Cooling: Thermalright IFX-14


CPU Cooling would be the Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 with whatever fan fits your CFM to db ratio you're looking for. The IFX-14 doesn't quite hit the value prop of the Thermalright Ultra-120. They're within 3 degrees of each other.

For the RAM i stick to 3 brands that's it:
Crucial
Corsair
OCZ

Everything else you listed looks like a good fit.
Last edited by ucisilentbob on Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bastage:
Ci7 3930K @ 4.56Ghz//16GB//MSI X79A-GD65//Noctua NH-D14 se2011//180GB Intel SSD 520
XFX 5850 1GB @775/1200 //X-Fi Titanium HD//Dell U2410(A01)+2001FP//OCZ ZX 850W
 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

Re: New futureproof C2Q rig: Please advise!

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:28 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
- home media hub (including some media coding)
I foresee needing more HDDs down the road?

I was actually thinking about NAS with RAID-5 in the future, but that's different story ;-)
http://www.netgear.com/Products/Storage/ReadyNASNVPlus.aspx

Flying Fox wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
Longetivity
I hope it will stay for some years to come.
Not going to happen sorry. Nehalem is end of this year. :o
The best you can hope for is to upgrade to the last Penryn, more on that later.

Klopsik206 wrote:
My understanding is quad core is more future proof, although it may be slightly less efficient right now than dual core (especially in gaming).
Less efficient as in the games are not using the extra cores right now? Well, they will eventually so as a "future proof" thing and if budget allows, the quad is the one to get.

Klopsik206 wrote:
- Possibly will upgrade to new Peryn CPU in the future
If you are thinking that, then I would suggest you get a cheap (or relatively cheap) dual core, like a E2xxx or a E4xxx, then upgrade to a Yorkfield quad (Q9xxx) after Nehalem is released, the later you can stretch this out the better. I am thinking Q1/Q2 2009.


Well, I am well aware I will not stay on top for years with that, but I hope with top of the line Peryn in the future (grabbed from bargain bin of course) it will be reasonable for 3-4 years. See how long I hanged with my Athlon XP-M :lol:

Flying Fox wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
- Plextor DVD burner
- Seagate 7200.9 250GB HDD
All PATA? Remember modern boards only have 1 IDE channels for 2 devices, and it is not built into the chipset either.

HDD is SATA, so I am OK.

Flying Fox wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P (rev 3.3)
If you want to save some money and will not be using 6 SATA devices or RAID, then the DS3L is the cheaper version.

You're right. As I am planning NAS, it makes sense.
Thanks for tip!

Flying Fox wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
HDD: Caviar SE-16 750 GB WD7500AAKS 16MB cache SATA-II (My understanding is Caviar RE is not worth extra cash)
It will depend on how much you value extra write speeds. The RE2 YS (instead of KS) version has been shown to write better, but at a higher noise.

Hmm. Didn't realize there's write speed difference... I can imagine it's not huge, and I think I value lower noise more.

Thanks for your feedback FlyingFox!
 
Voldenuit
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:34 pm

As FF said, when nehalem comes out, it will be a whole new ball game. Onboard memory controller and new chipset interconnect means the current FSB and northbridge model is going the way of the dodo. Penryn's your last trainstop.

That said, it should be good and scalable for a while yet. Most apps still don't utilise quadcore fully, so there will be room for growth (or you could look at it as being currently "inefficient").

Re: GPU + Accelero S1, be aware that the Accelero eats up 2 slots, 3 if you want to add the optional turbo module. It's a great cooler (as good or better than the TR HR03+/GT in my book, and much cheaper), but unless you're looking to run the GPU passively, I'd rather get the vanilla GT or pay the difference for the GTS.

You can also try XP Pro x64 for free for 120 days before deciding on going 64-bit, as many issues related to 64-bit computing apply to both XP and Vista.

Re: CPU cooler, the TRUE outperforms the IFX, is cheaper, and more compatible with motherboards and cases.

When are you planning to build? You could always hold out hope that intel will release Penryn on schedule (Jan 20), since they haven't confirmed the delay to my knowledge.

Also, if you're using it as a media hub/server, be aware that Vista Home doesn't come with RDP, which I personally find essential for a home server. Of course, you can always use a 3rd party remote management software.
Wind, Sand and Stars.
 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

Re: New futureproof C2Q rig: Please advise!

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:36 pm

ucisilentbob wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
CPU Cooling: Thermalright IFX-14


CPU Cooling would be the Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 with whatever fan fits your CFM to db ratio you're looking for.


According to this review IFX-14 preforms better:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=485&type=expert&pid=5

Do you have other comparison handy?
Thanks for help!
 
ucisilentbob
Gerbil XP
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:58 pm
Location: Garden Grove, California
Contact:

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:49 pm

A very thorough comparison over at the abitusa forums.
Bastage:
Ci7 3930K @ 4.56Ghz//16GB//MSI X79A-GD65//Noctua NH-D14 se2011//180GB Intel SSD 520
XFX 5850 1GB @775/1200 //X-Fi Titanium HD//Dell U2410(A01)+2001FP//OCZ ZX 850W
 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:55 pm

Voldenuit wrote:
As FF said, when nehalem comes out, it will be a whole new ball game. Onboard memory controller and new chipset interconnect means the current FSB and northbridge model is going the way of the dodo. Penryn's your last trainstop.

That said, it should be good and scalable for a while yet. Most apps still don't utilise quadcore fully, so there will be room for growth (or you could look at it as being currently "inefficient").


I am fully ware of that I bet on the scalability.

Voldenuit wrote:
Re: GPU + Accelero S1, be aware that the Accelero eats up 2 slots, 3 if you want to add the optional turbo module. It's a great cooler (as good or better than the TR HR03+/GT in my book, and much cheaper), but unless you're looking to run the GPU passively, I'd rather get the vanilla GT or pay the difference for the GTS.


I was toying with idea of buying GTS, but as noted, my preference is with lower noise. As slow fan should be quiet and perhaps even allow some OC.

Voldenuit wrote:
You can also try XP Pro x64 for free for 120 days before deciding on going 64-bit, as many issues related to 64-bit computing apply to both XP and Vista.

I was not aware that's possible... Can you please point me to more information?

Voldenuit wrote:
Re: CPU cooler, the TRUE outperforms the IFX, is cheaper, and more compatible with motherboards and cases.
Ahem... Which cooler are you talking about?


Voldenuit wrote:
When are you planning to build? You could always hold out hope that intel will release Penryn on schedule (Jan 20), since they haven't confirmed the delay to my knowledge.

Well, I can definitely wait one month more. Are they gonna launch in the same price range, or some high end stuff? Can you please point me to more info?

Voldenuit wrote:
Also, if you're using it as a media hub/server, be aware that Vista Home doesn't come with RDP, which I personally find essential for a home server. Of course, you can always use a 3rd party remote management software.
I am not sure what's RDP is (Remote Desktop Protocol?) and why should I need it. Would it require Vista Ultimate? I am running XP professional and I am happy with it. Again, can you please point me to further reading?

Thanks a lot!
 
Voldenuit
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Re: New futureproof C2Q rig: Please advise!

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:01 pm

Klopsik206 wrote:
According to this review IFX-14 preforms better:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=485&type=expert&pid=5

Do you have other comparison handy?
Thanks for help!


The PCPer comparison is flawed on several levels:

1. They tested on an open test bed
2. They used the optional IFX-10 cooler (which, to my knowledge, is not compatible with your gigabyte motherboard).
3. The Ultra they tested is the regular, not the extreme
4. They used different fans between the IFX-14 and Ultra (the Antec Tricools used for the Ultra are not highly regarded).

In my opinion, the IFX-14 is an oversized, overengineered, piece of junk, whereas the TRUE is much more elegant and functional. Of course, if you're not overclocking much, the Ultima-90 is nearly as good as the TRUE at a fraction of the size and cost.
Wind, Sand and Stars.
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25462
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:03 pm

I realized I forgot to link your to TR's RE2 article to show you the difference with the YS version.

Klopsik206 wrote:
Voldenuit wrote:
Re: CPU cooler, the TRUE outperforms the IFX, is cheaper, and more compatible with motherboards and cases.
Ahem... Which cooler are you talking about?
I'm guessing he was being cute in saying Thermalright Ultra Extreme? :lol:

Klopsik206 wrote:
Well, I can definitely wait one month more. Are they gonna launch in the same price range, or some high end stuff? Can you please point me to more info?
They are not going to release the quad Yorkfields on the 20th. Dual core Wolfdales are still on track though. Pricing is a tad higher than the Q6600, but not by much.

Klopsik206 wrote:
Voldenuit wrote:
Also, if you're using it as a media hub/server, be aware that Vista Home doesn't come with RDP, which I personally find essential for a home server. Of course, you can always use a 3rd party remote management software.
I am not sure what's RDP is (Remote Desktop Protocol?) and why should I need it. Would it require Vista Ultimate? I am running XP professional and I am happy with it. Again, can you please point me to further reading?
If you want to Remote Desktop into the "hub", then Vista Home Premium does not have it. It can Remote Desktop into other machines (having the RDP client but not the server). If your concept of a hub is just a bunch of file shares, then there should be no problem.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
Voldenuit
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:18 pm

Klopsik206 wrote:
Voldenuit wrote:
You can also try XP Pro x64 for free for 120 days before deciding on going 64-bit, as many issues related to 64-bit computing apply to both XP and Vista.

I was not aware that's possible... Can you please point me to more information?


You can download the trial version here. I've been running XP x64 for the past month and a bit on my home desktop (s939 Opteron 165) in preparation for a Q6600/Q9450 build, and I am perfectly happy with it. Finally found a use for that disc I got with my Opteron :P


Klopsik206 wrote:
Voldenuit wrote:
Re: CPU cooler, the TRUE outperforms the IFX, is cheaper, and more compatible with motherboards and cases.
Ahem... Which cooler are you talking about?


The TRUE is the Thermalright Ultra Extreme, of course. I thought every geek knew that :P

Well, I can definitely wait one month more. Are they gonna launch in the same price range, or some high end stuff? Can you please point me to more info?


Pricing info on Penryn has been out for a while. The Q9300 at 2.5 GHz with 6MB L2 will be ~$260 and the Q9450 at 2.66 with 12 MBL2 is ~$314. I'm holding out for the 9450 myself...

Voldenuit wrote:
Also, if you're using it as a media hub/server, be aware that Vista Home doesn't come with RDP, which I personally find essential for a home server. Of course, you can always use a 3rd party remote management software.
I am not sure what's RDP is (Remote Desktop Protocol?) and why should I need it. Would it require Vista Ultimate? I am running XP professional and I am happy with it. Again, can you please point me to further reading?


RDP allows you to control your PC from a remote PC. This is useful for a media server, especially if you want to manage shares across a network. That way, you can move files around (eg newly downloaded or edited files) without granting write access to your shares, etc. If you've never used it, you might not care what you're missing, but once you use it a lot, you'll never want to go without. Personally, I don't think it's worth paying the price premium for Ultimate just to get RDP, and I think MS dropped the ball when they stripped it out of home. It's no longer just a business tool, as seen when they added in to MCE.

Cheers,
V
Wind, Sand and Stars.
 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:21 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
Voldenuit wrote:
Re: CPU cooler, the TRUE outperforms the IFX, is cheaper, and more compatible with motherboards and cases.
Ahem... Which cooler are you talking about?
I'm guessing he was being cute in saying Thermalright Ultra Extreme? :lol:

Doh! :oops:
 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

Re: New futureproof C2Q rig: Please advise!

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:25 pm

Voldenuit wrote:
They used the optional IFX-10 cooler (which, to my knowledge, is not compatible with your gigabyte motherboard).
[...]
In my opinion, the IFX-14 is an oversized, overengineered, piece of junk, whereas the TRUE is much more elegant and functional. Of course, if you're not overclocking much, the Ultima-90 is nearly as good as the TRUE at a fraction of the size and cost.


Can you please point me to the IFX-10 compatibility info?
I took a second look on TRUE ( :wink: - now know what's that ), and I will reconsider.

Thanks all of you for excellent feedback!
 
Voldenuit
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Re: New futureproof C2Q rig: Please advise!

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:46 pm

Klopsik206 wrote:
Voldenuit wrote:
They used the optional IFX-10 cooler (which, to my knowledge, is not compatible with your gigabyte motherboard).
[...]
In my opinion, the IFX-14 is an oversized, overengineered, piece of junk, whereas the TRUE is much more elegant and functional. Of course, if you're not overclocking much, the Ultima-90 is nearly as good as the TRUE at a fraction of the size and cost.


Can you please point me to the IFX-10 compatibility info?
I took a second look on TRUE ( :wink: - now know what's that ), and I will reconsider.


Oops, I was thinking of a different gigabyte motherboard. [H] had trouble mounting the IFX10 on their GA-965 board due to solder joints under the CPU socket, but the GA-P35 don't suffer from this problem.

That said, I don't think Thermalright has a compatibility list for the IFX10.

One thing that has come up in reviews of the TRU-120/TRUE and the Ultima-90 is that the number of heatpipes seems to matter more than the fin area. It is speculated that this is why the Ultima90 performs so close to the TRUE despite being much smaller in size.

The IFX-14 does not significantly outperform the TRUE despite being much larger and more unwieldy, and in some instances, actually loses out to its little brother. Depending on your case, you may not be able to kit out a IFX14 with 2-3 fans, in which case it may well lose out to a TRUE with a single fan or with 2 fans in push/pull.

Note that the fans PCPer used in their IFX-14 review are loud, high flow fans and unlikely to be considered by someone such as yourself with an eye to a silent build.

I'm not saying the IFX is bad, but in comparison with its size and cost, its performance is not overwhelming. Also, I haven't seen it paired with any low speed fans, whereas the TRUE has been successfully paired with quiet fans by many users on many sites (check out the SPCR review and forums).
Wind, Sand and Stars.
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25462
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:55 pm

Voldenuit wrote:
It's no longer just a business tool, as seen when they added in to MCE.
I wouldn't say RDP was "added" to MCE, more like they used XP Pro and added Media Center functionality (while somehow remembered to hide the domain stuff). Why would you want to RDP with a laptop or something into something that has big ass buttons and stuff? You would think when you RDP you will want smaller Windows and buttons? That's why they deemed RDP to be not in the Media Center use case.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
flip-mode
Grand Admiral Gerbil
Posts: 10183
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 12:42 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:12 pm

Klopsik206 wrote:
I hope with top of the line Peryn in the future (grabbed from bargain bin of course) it will be reasonable for 3-4 years. See how long I hanged with my Athlon XP-M
You'll have no problem making it last that long. No matter how good Nahalem is, other CPUs will continue to function after it's launch - they're not going to die in phear of Nahalem epeen :lol:

Nice looking build. Definitely go with the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme.

Congrats on keeping the Athlon for so long. My X2-3600 is almost 1 year old :lol: Here's hoping I hang onto it for another 2 or 3 years.
 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:54 am

After reading more about upcomming Peryn, I got two more questions:

- Does it make sense to buy X38 mobo right now with 1600Mhz FSB support in order to be able to upgrade to the fastest available Peryn in the future? (to rephrase: will it run on 1333 FSB at all?)
- Will DDR2 800 be enough to run the fastest available Peryn?
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3292
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:57 pm
Location: The Smoky Back Room
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:29 am

Klopsik206 wrote:
After reading more about upcomming Peryn, I got two more questions:

- Does it make sense to buy X38 mobo right now with 1600Mhz FSB support in order to be able to upgrade to the fastest available Peryn in the future? (to rephrase: will it run on 1333 FSB at all?)
- Will DDR2 800 be enough to run the fastest available Peryn?


I think you should reconsider the 8800GTS if you plan on buying in the next couple of weeks. Right now the GT and GTS are close in price due to supply and demand. I got my overclocked 8800GTS for 329, which may even be less than your 8800GT/aftermarket heatsink combo. The GTS fan is much larger than the 8800GT fan and is nice and quiet at its stock speed of 29%.

Also, I think you are worrying too much about being future proof. Go cheap like Flying Fox suggested, then save the money so you can buy a new mobo/cpu/memory combo at a later date. No reason to pay for performance that won't be utilised (4 cores). A year from now you'll be able to get a Quad Core Nehalam + mobo + DDR3 for cheap. :D

You can get a dual core + mobo + 4GB ram DDR2 for what, 400?
Last edited by Gerbil Jedidiah on Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
If you're not folding with your idle computer time you're not part of the solution.
 
Nitrodist
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3281
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:51 am
Location: Minnesota

Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:47 am

david00214 wrote:
A year from now you'll be able to get a Quad Core Nehalam + mobo + DDR3 for cheap. :D


That doesn't even make sense..
Image
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25462
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:24 am

Klopsik206 wrote:
- Does it make sense to buy X38 mobo right now with 1600Mhz FSB support in order to be able to upgrade to the fastest available Peryn in the future? (to rephrase: will it run on 1333 FSB at all?)
IIRC the X38 does not support 1600 officially. If you want official support you are going to have to wait. Most boards can be overclocked to 400x4=1600FSB with no problem.

Klopsik206 wrote:
- Will DDR2 800 be enough to run the fastest available Peryn?
Most Yorkfields will be on the 333x4=1333FSB so it should be no problem (333x2=667). At 400 base clock we will see DDR2-800 finally get matched up nicely with 1:1 ratio. Most modules should be able to overclocked a little more giving you some headroom. If you really want headroom you can get some DDR2-1066 sticks.

Nitrodist wrote:
david00214 wrote:
A year from now you'll be able to get a Quad Core Nehalam + mobo + DDR3 for cheap. :D

That doesn't even make sense..
DDR3 may indeed come down in price since 2009 is where AMD will join the party. However Nehalem and motherboards may not be cheap.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:31 am

Flying Fox wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
- Does it make sense to buy X38 mobo right now with 1600Mhz FSB support in order to be able to upgrade to the fastest available Peryn in the future? (to rephrase: will it run on 1333 FSB at all?)
IIRC the X38 does not support 1600 officially. If you want official support you are going to have to wait. Most boards can be overclocked to 400x4=1600FSB with no problem.


Do you mean all X38 boards will work with 1600FPB? or ALL board inclucing P35 can be overclocked to 1600FSB?
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3292
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:57 pm
Location: The Smoky Back Room
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:38 am

Flying Fox wrote:

Nitrodist wrote:
david00214 wrote:
A year from now you'll be able to get a Quad Core Nehalam + mobo + DDR3 for cheap. :D

That doesn't even make sense..
DDR3 may indeed come down in price since 2009 is where AMD will join the party. However Nehalem and motherboards may not be cheap.


True enough, but the OP is wanting future proof, which isn't very realistic with Intel platforms right now, so I think it makes sense to go cheap now with the knowledge that a mobo upgrade will be needed later. In any event, whether or not it is Nehalem, Quad Core will definitely be cheaper in a year. (keeping fingers crossed that AMD survives and keeps competition alive)
Image
If you're not folding with your idle computer time you're not part of the solution.
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3292
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:57 pm
Location: The Smoky Back Room
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:45 am

Nitrodist wrote:
david00214 wrote:
A year from now you'll be able to get a Quad Core Nehalam + mobo + DDR3 for cheap. :D


That doesn't even make sense..


I'm not sure why my comment does not make sense. Let's take DDR2 as example. I paid $240 for 2GB of Corsair memory in June 2006. That same memory is now $45 after MIR. If memory manufacturers continue to saturate the market, prices will continue to drop.

If only we could talk these manufacturers into saturating the market with video cards... Imagine how much more money video card makers and video game developers could rake in if a $200 card could run Crysis in all its glory. More people would play games, happiness would propagate, the president would resign and admit his failures, a new pill would cure cancer and obesity, the US work week would be reduced to 32 hours, and science would discover that bacon is actually very very good for you :D
Image
If you're not folding with your idle computer time you're not part of the solution.
 
Nitrodist
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3281
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:51 am
Location: Minnesota

Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:13 am

david00214 wrote:
Nitrodist wrote:
david00214 wrote:
A year from now you'll be able to get a Quad Core Nehalam + mobo + DDR3 for cheap. :D


That doesn't even make sense..


I'm not sure why my comment does not make sense.


Besides the fact I was trying to be funny, I have the belief that DDR3 won't be inexpensive anytime soon. DDR2 came out in 2003 and it took until last year to get to nice prices. DDR3 came out in mid 2007 so.... if you're betting that it'll become inexpensive by 2009...
Image
 
Klopsik206
Gerbil First Class
Topic Author
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:28 am
Location: old continent

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:13 am

Guys, I won't be waiting another year.
I am running AXP-M - have a bit of compassion please :lol:
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25462
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:26 am

Klopsik206 wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
Klopsik206 wrote:
- Does it make sense to buy X38 mobo right now with 1600Mhz FSB support in order to be able to upgrade to the fastest available Peryn in the future? (to rephrase: will it run on 1333 FSB at all?)
IIRC the X38 does not support 1600 officially. If you want official support you are going to have to wait. Most boards can be overclocked to 400x4=1600FSB with no problem.


Do you mean all X38 boards will work with 1600FPB? or ALL board inclucing P35 can be overclocked to 1600FSB?
For now, all signs are pointing that 400x4=1600 FSB is no problem for most boards out there. Intel is even respinning a stepping for the non-Extreme Yorkfields to run on these "cheaper" boards. The only reasons I see one needs to get an X38 board is for CrossFire or DDR3 (mostly for epeen now). If you want official 1600 support you will have to wait for X48 anyways.

david00214 wrote:
True enough, but the OP is wanting future proof, which isn't very realistic with Intel platforms right now, so I think it makes sense to go cheap now with the knowledge that a mobo upgrade will be needed later.
As in buying AMD with the SB600 is any more future proof than Intel? It's not even "present" proof. :roll:

There is really no such thing as "future proof", especially if you are chasing the mighty fps with the latest games. But with games it's usually ok just to keep the GPU updated instead of upgrading the whole platform. Counting on a platform that will remain the same performance wise in "a few years" is a pipe dream at best.

Treat the CPU+motherboard+RAM as a whole (sometimes you may get RAM to your next build but I only count that as bonus) platform.

Buy what matters to you now, within your budget. Don't worry too much about the future. It changes too fast to predict anyways.
Last edited by Flying Fox on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3292
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:57 pm
Location: The Smoky Back Room
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:27 am

Klopsik206 wrote:
Guys, I won't be waiting another year.
I am running AXP-M - have a bit of compassion please :lol:


Oh you def need to upgrade. Here is what I suggest:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... A-P35-DS3P

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820227198

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115029

I didn't search for long so you may find better deals or models, but I think these items show the bang for the buck factor nicely. Save the cash you might spend on expensive DDR3, more future proof mobo (if they even exist) and quad core, then upgrade again in a year.
Image
If you're not folding with your idle computer time you're not part of the solution.
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25462
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:31 am

david00214 wrote:
He already picked that in his first post. But I think he should do well also with the DS3L. Not many need the features of ICH9R.

david00214 wrote:
When most DDR2-800 should behave the same I don't see why not get the cheaper ones. Also 2x2GB may be a good idea.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3292
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:57 pm
Location: The Smoky Back Room
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:35 am

Flying Fox wrote:
david00214 wrote:
He already picked that in his first post. But I think he should do well also with the DS3L. Not many need the features of ICH9R.

david00214 wrote:
When most DDR2-800 should behave the same I don't see why not get the cheaper ones. Also 2x2GB may be a good idea.


I honestly have done little research on Intel so I will defer to your wisdom :D

Oh I picked that memory because it won a comparison in a "shortbread" a few days ago. It's got nice timings too (the gamer in me). It's only 40 or so after MIR. If he goes Vista X64 and doesn't game as a priority then 2x2GB prob makes the best sense. He could always get 4x1GB of the OCZ memory...
Image
If you're not folding with your idle computer time you're not part of the solution.
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3292
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:57 pm
Location: The Smoky Back Room
Contact:

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:42 am

Flying Fox wrote:

david00214 wrote:
True enough, but the OP is wanting future proof, which isn't very realistic with Intel platforms right now, so I think it makes sense to go cheap now with the knowledge that a mobo upgrade will be needed later.
As in buying AMD with the SB600 is any more future proof than Intel? It's not even "present" proof. :roll:



AMD has me bummed. I've owned one Intel CPU (a Pentium 100MHZ). I was hoping to keep that record, but if I upgrade in the next 6 months I can't see myself buying AMD. Especially if Intel puts out a dual core 45NM product in the $200 range that will OC past 4 GHZ. To me, that type of processor could be the death nail for AMD.
Image
If you're not folding with your idle computer time you're not part of the solution.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest